Forum Post: Phase 1 Peaceful Protest Is Now Over Initiate Phase 2 In Response To NDAA
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 31, 2011, 5:08 p.m. EST by quantumystic
(1710)
from Memphis, TN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Where has my country gone???? FUCK YOU COCKSUCKING RIGHTS TRAMPLING PIECE OF SHIT FOR A PRESIDENT I AM ASHAMED I VOTED AND SUPPORTED YOU. I am calling for a nationwide general strike until further notice effective immediate. Let the militarized para military police attack fine bitches game on you are not going to take my liberty while there is still a breath in my body. I would rather die a freeman than live as wageslave in your twisted sick little world.
I feel you pain. I really do. I have been on these boards for weeks talking nonstop about this fascist bill. I went into forum after forum online raising awareness over it.
OWS is a non-violent movement. We can't engage in violence. We must find another way to have NDAA repealed and The Patriot Act (which violates our first and fourth amendment rights). We didn't get to this place overnight. Our Bill of Rights have been under attack for sometime now.
We must find another way and make our voices heard. There are more of us (the 99%) than there is of them. Hang in there.
Si vis pacem, para bellum!
Dude, the pen is mightier than the sword. Remember that.
shit play from which your quote is derived. not from the real world from the imaginary world of theatre. words are powerful but you go ahead and bring a pen to a sword fight see what happens.
Alright, if that is the way you feel about it, so be it.
i am against violence as a first course of action however they will never get me in a fema camp alive the jews in europe during ww2 were non violent to.
It's not about pens and swords, it's about intellect vs. violence. You don't land a man on the moon with a sword.
we didn't beat the british with words. we didn't win ww2 with words... your correct it is about intellect and a smart man knows when to fight and when to run. you can let them cart you off to a fema camp with out a fight not me.
i was thinking about joining the military in may now im not so sure.
Why in the fuck are you posting this on OWS? Why not rally your community instead of pissing in the wind on this forum? If you really cared about stopping NDAA, then you would call for a general strike on something more people will read.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-holding-someones-worst-secret-illegal/
I can't think of anything worse than this bill. This is something indeed OWS can use to rally the general population around. Its just that not even CNN's covering it, which is pretty weird.
oh yeah!
Agree, no violence. I feel your pain too. He is my president too. I need to see his actions in the 2nd term and in the while keep the heat on. I think we will be suprised.
well you let them cart you off to a fema camp then.
It's amazing how so many "intelligent" Libs/Progs couldn't figure out what most Conservatives already knew about Obama in 2008. We knew he was a liar,we knew he wouldn't keep all those promises. We knew he was inexperienced and not qualified for the job. But,you intellectual giants were so evolved and such great "critical thinkers" that you completely fell for and were bullshitted by a teleprompter used car salesman that you didn't even bother to vet. You Libs need to work on that superiority complex.
please look at these fucking tools you trot out for president in the republican party it is like watching the procession of the dumb and ignorant who is your guy? and i much rather would have had dennis kucinich or mike gravel in 2008 but i didn't expect obama to be just like bush this shit crazy.
"the dumb and ignorant" .....Thanks for proving once again how arrogant you Libs are. Any one of the Republican Candidates are far more qualified then Obama ever was. Your piss poor judgement in voting for Obama pretty much makes your opinion subject to doubt and skepticism. And now you're talking about Kucinich,that just makes you appear even more inept.
funny thing is your guys are going to get blown out in the election. your candidates are pathetic and will not beat a man that should be easily beaten and that is funny as shit. and the funnier thing is there is no reagan riding in on a horse to save your party they are done demographics say so as well.
Well,if the Republicans are done like you say than so is the country. Your Bud Obama,if he gets another 4 years will fuck this economy over fully and you won't be so fucking smug paying $8-$10 a gallon for gas. You can feel happy and contented knowing that you helped contribute to fall of the greatest nation on earth. Yeehaw!!
it is failed republican economic and social policies of the last 30 years i blame for the downfall of america you should to.
Your lack of knowledge and apparently propagandized ideology has given you a complete misunderstanding of reality and facts.
oh really? i highly doubt that i am not the one who is a sheeple. please explain how the republican economic and social policies have been great for america please indulge me. you cant because they havent been a success they have been a failure. the funniest thing is you think clinton and obama are liberals they are not they are center right just look at their economic policies. republican policies for 30 years have killed our country the people are dumber than ever, more disengaged than ever, we need a return to real liberal values.
@ "q" : I get where you're coming from. Frankly, politics in The U$A from the perspective of Europe (where the word "Socialism" does NOT cause an instant seizure/ brain-spasm / psychic shock !!!) - always seems like variations on the theme of "Right-Wing". "Obomber and The Killtons" would NOT be seen as "Liberal" in most of The World and when it comes to "dumb and ignorant", well G"Dubya"B would take some beating - if only we could get to him !!!
More pertinently to your "cris de couer", I offer the following 5 (a-e) links from the 'Forum-post' & thread, " http://occupywallst.org/forum/vet-soldier-says-the-military-is-waking-up-to-fema/ "+ 7 others (f-j+1&2) :
a) "Detainment Camps Going Live : FEMA Seeking Subcontractors to Provide 'Temporary Camp Services' In All 50 States : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29968.htm ;
b) "Defence Bill Establishes Martial Law In America!" (Video) : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29987.htm ;
c) "The US Becomes Just Another Military Dictatorship" : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29986.htm ;
d) "Must we Permit the US Military to Detain Americans Without Trial ?" : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29953.htm &
e) "Indefinite Detention of American Citizens: Coming Soon to Battlefield U.S.A.", by Matt Taibbi : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29955.htm +
f.) "When Can the President Assassinate Americans ?", by Daniel McCarthy : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30148.htm ;
g) "The Outlook For Liberty is Dismal", by Paul Craig Roberts : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30151.htm ;
h) "How Congress Has Signed Its Own Arrest Warrants in the NDAA Citizen Arrest Act" by Naomi Wolf: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30139.htm ;
i.) "Obama Signs Indefinite Detention Bill Into Law", by ACLU : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30125.htm &
j.) "R.I.P. Bill of Rights 1789 - 2011", by Mike Adams : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30130.htm .
& two others :
1) http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/jan/02/ndaa-historic-assault-american-liberty?newsfeed=true &
2) http://publicintelligence.net/new-york-police-circulating-mysterious-government-guide-to-criminal-tactics-of-protest-extremists/ .
12 links for 2012 but finally, please cogitate upon and consider that NON-Peaceful Protest is just what is desired as it will simply play into "THEIR" hands ...
ipsa scientia potestas est ..
pax, amor et lux .
Nice rundown
Obama's candidacy was forced through by Wall Street. If not for that, we would of had Hilary Clinton, who probably would have been better.
Hillary is a very left minded thinker too. She is not a supporter of a federal government with limited enumerated powers either, as the constitution requires. The federal government has so overstepped it's powers that most conservatives are unaware how far gone our republic is. We've gone over the cliff of an all controlling, massive government, in every area of our lives, so long ago that people seldom ask the question,"is this constitutional?", but instead ask, "how will this benefit me?" The problem goes so deep that our 9 men in black look at precedent rather than the constitution, in most supreme court cases.
We had the best economy in the last fifty years under Bill Clinton, I think under Hillary would it would probably be about the same.
Bill told congress under Gingrich, "all of your spending bills are dead on arrival. Not enough spending." I know Clinton recently complained that he feels slighted for not getting more credit for the hot economy under his administration, although the repubicans were in the majority, and fought Clinton tooth and nail, and even shut down the government in late 1995, sending federal workers home on furlow. I agree the economy was pretty good, and Clinton new enough of how to get shit done, and moderated his views considerably when polls showed his image tanking. Gingrich is largely credited for the relatively balanced budgets though.
What I have been hearing lately is that the best approach we could take to getting us out of this crisis would be bipartisan. Perhaps Ron Paul with Dennis Kucinich as running mate. I think both parties will have to learn how to work together to get us out of the trouble we're in now.
Thank you to the people in this post who stand up for non-violence
have fun in a fema slave camp.
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Bushbama has issued his NDAA Signing Statement:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/31/statement-president-hr-1540
Here is mine:
Americans must not be distracted by Corporate Fascist Puppet Barack Obama saying "my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens" in his signing statement for the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 (H.R.1540). Presidential "signing statements" are political propaganda with no Constitutional basis. A President who breaches a signing statement covenant faces no more consequences than any other corrupt politician who renegs on a promise. By signing NDAA and attempting to give its unconstitutional provisions the force of law, Barack Hussein Obama became complicit with all of the bought-and-paid-for U.S. Senators and Representatives who voted for this bill, and along with them should be charged with Seditious Conspiracy under U.S. Code Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 Section 2384. Unless and until these vermin are arrested, charged and removed from office, I will no longer consider the government they infest to be legitimate. Nor will I respect any ruling to the contrary from a judicial system that grants rights of citizenship to corporate entities that treat settlements and penalties for criminal conduct as costs of doing business with no concerns about incarceration or execution to deter their illegal, immoral or unethical conduct.
No more Left. No more Right. Time to Unite. Stand and Fight!
IronBoltBruce
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ndaa-2012-obama-uses-new-years-eve-as-cover-to-ush/
Related Image:
http://lancewig.com/sites/default/files/enslaved.jpg
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Wow, thats some serious energy.
Did you expect him to actually NOt sign it?
The guy has been screwing us for three years. Where is the suprise?
i thought with the delay he was reconsidering vetoing, i was wrong. this is where i draw the line. something must and will be done.
The veto was delayed so it could be done over the "holiday" it would go un-noticed by most
Even Hitler didn't document to justify what he did, he just did it.
Now we have a "law" or "act" which pretty much makes it legal in the eyes of the world court.
The law/act just makes it easier for them to carry it out.
Austerity measures, currency devaluation, hyperinflation are just around the corner.
And WHERE, may I ask, "quantumystic", will that kind of violent rethoric get you?
NO WAY IS PEACEFUL PROTEST OVER! OWS remains firmly committed to non-violence.
The hateful rethoric in this post is worthy of an AGENT PROVOCATEUR and can only turn off an overwhelming majority of Americans as well as play in the hands of those who would love nothing better than to declare Martial Law and create a de facto fascist state.
THINK, please... Think Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Cesar Chavez, Vaclav Havel, Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi...
While I am all for non-violent protests, there comes a time when we will have to go into a state of emergency. Nonviolence will not help at that time. Currently, the protests aren't doing anything. The times of Gandhi and MLK (who were both assassinated) are gone. The government isn't listening to us, and is in fact preparing to pass any amount of bills and laws it takes to silence us. You can look at the past presidents and say they were mostly republican so we need someone who is not a republican to save us - enter Obama. Obama didn't help and had no idea what he was getting himself into. So then, what was the problem? The problem wasn't the president, it was the corporations funding their campaigns - Obama was endorsed by Goldman Sachs who endorsed the previous presidents. It's time to really decide if you are for a reformation or a revolution.
So let me get this straight: your understanding of non-violence is that "in case of emergency, break glass, go right ahead and be as violent as you like!"
Hearing such a GEM OF UNWISDOM, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Cesar Chavez, Vaclav Havel, Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi would no doubt be in stitches... Don't you think they NEVER FACED EMERGENCIES? They faced house arrest, jail, death threats, torture.... but they remained steadfastly non-violent and guess what? They all won in the end. Even the ones who paid the ultimate price TRIUMPHED IN DEATH. As Jesus said: "Be not afraid of those who can only kill your body: they cannot touch your soul".
Life is NOT a cowboy movie, it's a little more complicated than that... Your rethoric is worthy of an AGENT PROVOCATEUR and can only turn off an overwhelming majority of Americans and thus play in the hands of those who dream of declaring Martial Law and creating a de facto fascist state.
I have said dozens of times on this forum but it bears repeating: I favor a peaceful OVERHAUL of the system - as recommended by our 3rd President, Thomas Jefferson, as an exercise that should happen every 20 years - NOT a violent OVERTHROW, that would achieve nothing but fascism and bloodshed.
I think you misunderstood me. I was trying to depict two routes.
One route is nonviolent and may result in a reformation. That means some amendments, maybe another bill of rights, but the core system will not change. There will still be a president, senators, representatives, and even judges who carry out the law they way they want to. To me, a reformation would be a temporary solution to the problem and that's if we can get past all of the tricks. The tricks being the recent bill that can indefinitely detain suspects without trial and now the SOPA bill that censors the internet. If you think it isn't going to get worse, then you are mistaken because the government funds hundreds of think tanks who solely work on how they can get past the system. By the president signing any of the two above, it shows he isn't representing us. This is a complete tyranny and we are still stuck under monarchies, feudal lords, and protestant theocrats.
The second route is violent. This route is a revolution, a complete overthrow of the government. We the people need to make our own decisions without an absolute leader. The problem here is that not everyone is educated on the current policies, meaning the majority vote might make everything worse. But that's if we try to do a democracy alone. We could try something new, something like a resource-based economy along with it that guarantees us additional rights. I am in favor of this route, but I doubt this will actually happen. Many people are like you who don't want something along the lines of an Armageddon, anything could happen! Murder, rape, thievery, it's all bad. It would really depend on who was 'leading' this overthrow. Obviously, we would want the people leading it and not a dictator.
What will actually happen? No one knows, but I think nothing will happen. Our government will get worse and nothing will change. You have to be realistic here, corporations just backing off peacefully? If I was the 1% and was as greedy as they are, I would do anything to stop everyone such as murdering all of the protestors- or just detain them indefinitely to shut every source of defiance out. By the way, another trick is to use religion. Jesus said in the Bible you aren't allowed to overthrow your government, to submit to tyranny. Hopefully you know by now, that the Bible is regularly 'doctrined' to reflect the views of the Catholic church.
I do not believe in PIECEMEAL REFORM either. It's no use trying to salvage a completely rotten apple. The whole, corrupt-to-the-core political system must be OVERHAULED.
Note that I speak of OVERHAUL while you speak of OVERTHROW. A violent overthrow 1 - would not garner the support of the American people; 2 - would result in a bloodbath; 3 - and ultimately would not necessarily improve the situation in any way (see the history of past revolutions).
You see only two routes. I see a MIDDLE WAY: non-violent but very SMART and POWERFUL. There is tremendous power in LOVE. In fact, the wise agree that there is no greater power in the Universe.
In a nation dominated by greed and stupidity, LOVE is the REAL REVOLUTION. THAT is the Revolution that Jesus launched nearly 2000 years ago and that got co-opted after a few decades by a false interpretation of the Message called.... Christianity.
Not only did I already state about half of what you just said, but the point is to be realistic. 'Overhaul' would not work for reasons that should be self-explanatory. Judging by this post, it's no wonder the OWS is called a bunch of hippies. I have no idea what to say to you honestly, I can't take you seriously but for sake of trying to understand without harassing you I'll bite.
Alright, so you believe that if we all joined hands together and loved one another we could overhaul the system. And then what? Confuse the hell out of people by saying you have to follow Jesus but you can't do it in a Christian way? Really, how do you even view Jesus...
You remind me of this guy over here http://kevincraig.us/overthrow.htm
As I wrote earlier:
"Christianity" - especially since Paul, Augustine and Constantine - has been mostly a distortion and a betrayal of the original teachings of Jesus. The more I love Jesus, the less I like Christianity.
Google "Thomas Jefferson on Christianity", you will find that our 3rd President had the greatest admiration for Jesus but none whatsoever for Christianity. In fact, while in office he rewrote the Bible to eliminate the garbage that was added on throughout the centuries. "The Jefferson Bible" remains a classic, regularly reprinted to this day.
BTW, I'm not a "Jesus freak" in any way, I don't fixate on him as "the one and only true Master". I find tremendous inspiration in the writings of the Buddha, of Lao Tzu, of Pythagoras, of Socrates, of el-Hallaj, of Rumi and many others. No single Teacher has a monopoly on Truth!
SALAAM - SHALOM - PEACE
So you basically put your own interpretations into everything. Cool. I suggest you not quote Jesus at all then, to quote him is to acknowledge the Christian religion and if you don't acknowledge the religion, then you don't believe Jesus existed (the only proof is the Bible which has many edited doctrines by man). I can really go on to tell you how every single religion has copied one another and is a whole bunch of BS (And then I'll astonish you on my religious view). But I'd rather talk about how your political system is going to work.
I want to overthrow the government, the only strategy to that (to me) is total violence which means marching agaisnt the government (a certain country convinced their firefighters to join the protesting side, maybe we could convince the police as well) or to slowly attempt to reform it over decades (and that's if this 1% complies). Your post strikes me as, well... off because you state that love can change everything but you don't state how. Like would you try preaching this love to the greedy people 1% and maybe one day they'll get the message and step off? Then what? If there's only going to be love, then would you abolish the monetary system, would you try end capitalism just what would happen....
I really think you should look into the Venus Project and their projected resource-based economy. If that is incorporated with self-sufficient natural resource handling and Roosevelt's Second Bill of Rights then we have on our hands the almost perfect utopia. I'm thinking you probably don't want to continue this discussion and won't respond to my questions but you could at least look at this solution.
IslandActivist" writes:
"I want to overthrow the government, the only strategy to that (to me) is total violence"
I most EMPHATICALLY disagree. History teaches us that violent overthrows only end up in perpetutating the SAME crappy system, just with different faces running it... :(
Thomas Jefferson, on the other hand, called for a regular, general OVERHAUL - the ideal being, in his words, "a revolution every twenty years".
As I wrote earlier:
"Christianity" - especially since Paul, Augustine and Constantine - has been mostly a distortion and a betrayal of the original teachings of Jesus. The more I love Jesus, the less I like Christianity.
Try googling "Thomas Jefferson on Christianity", you will find that our 3rd President had the greatest admiration for Jesus but none whatsoever for Christianity. In fact, while in office he rewrote the Bible to eliminate the garbage that was added on throughout the centuries. "The Jefferson Bible" remains a classic, regularly reprinted to this day.
insane babble
most christians have no idea about the 20 some odd gospels and the various other texts that depict christianity in a totally different way take the gospel of thomas read it not one miracle mentioned, not a mention of death or resurrection. not a word. wonder why that was left out. yes doubting thomas only mentions teachings of jesus. there is so much more going on than people have been conditioned to know it is crazy.
AGREE with you for once. :)
Over the past 15 years, I have been studying those other gospels that the Church BANNED as "heretical". I share your admiration for "The Gospel of Thomas", which is one of my bedside books.
"Christianity" - especially since Paul, Augustine and Constantine - has been mostly a distortion and a betrayal of the original teachings of Jesus. The more I love Jesus, the less I like Christianity.
Google "Thomas Jefferson on Christianity", you will find that our 3rd President had the greatest admiration for Jesus but none whatsoever for Christianity. In fact, while in office he rewrote the Bible to eliminate the garbage that was added on throughout the centuries. "The Jefferson Bible" remains a classic, regularly reprinted to this day.
P.S. By the way, I'm not a "Jesus freak"in any way, I don't fixate on him as "the one and only true Master". I find tremendous inspiration in the writings of the Buddha, of Lao Tzu, of Pythagoras, of Socrates, of el-Hallaj, of Rumi and many others. No single Teacher has a monopoly on the Truth!
for me there are many ancient esoteric texts that provide valuable insight into the universe. http://occupywallst.org/forum/it-is-time-to-adopt-a-new-belief-system-with-out-t/
Just bumping this up. Great post. Should be in Best Comments quickly.
middle way isn't that another way of saying conformist. fuck that.
Just the OPPOSITE of conformist!
LOVE is not something sentimental and maudlin, as Hollywood would have us believe. It is in fact the most powerful and revolutionary Force in the Universe.
With only the power of Love, a short, thin, bespectacled "loser" called Gandhi brought the British Empire to its knees. That's good enough for me!
how many died first you guys always leave that out.
YES, some people died, because the British obviously were NOT non-violent. But the mass slaughter that everyone feared was miraculously averted - through the miracle of LOVE and NON-VIOLENCE.
Our models must be Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Vaclav Havel, Lech Walesa, Aung San Suu Kyi, who all triumphed in the end becuase they were SMART enough to not give in to raw emotions such as fear, rage and murderous revenge.
they will never get me or any american in a fema camp with out a fight.
Whatever we do, let us stay SMART.
i am not in favor of violence but i am much less in favor of a concentration camp.
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the time for peaceful protest has passed with the signing of ndaa. learn from history fool. Si vis pacem, para bellum!
Call me a "fool" if you like. It shows your degree of maturity in this discussion.
As for "Si vis pacem, para bellum!" do you know how OLD and OBSOLETE that kind of thinking happens to be? Good luck on your trip back to Roman times, AGENT PROVOCATEUR!
in pace, ut sapiens, aptarit idonea bello