Forum Post: Perfect use of the money OWS has generated
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 7:54 p.m. EST by hairball1337
(35)
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I keep seeing the amount of 'money in the bank' you have earned. Current numbers put it around $300,000.
Burn it. Burn the money. With fire. You have a huge opportunity to make the biggest statement the world has ever seen. Who the fuck burns 300K? People that are tired of the slavery of currency. The people occupying wall street.
Acknowledge that, at its heart, money is the problem here. Money is the tool the rich use to enslave the poor. When it comes down to value, the rich are worthless. They are parasites. The only thing in this world that gives them any sway is currency, the artificial engine that makes the world go round.
And replace it with what? I don't have that answer, but I'm sure we can come up with something. Money doesn't do its job, it doesn't make sure people do good things for society. It always turns into a game of scheming, how to beat the system. We are human, we will always hack the system, no matter what it is; computers, governments, financial systems. We will hack them all, no matter the cost.
Honestly, I don't really blame any of the bankers on Wall Street. They are hackers, like the rest of us, exploiting the system for gain. Unfortunately, in the currency system, their gain is your loss. They are just trying to ensure their survival, like all of you. Perhaps they are cruel and heartless, ignorant or uncaring of their sins, but their actions are certainly not unexpected.
The evils committed by the rich are a direct result of the system. The system we built created these people. We are to blame. As soon as we stop blaming others and realize we are just as much at fault as they are, we can begin to move forward.
EDIT: I really appreciate everyone's comments and participation! I want to point out that money is only a symbol for wealth and power. In the real world, it is worthless. By burning the money we are telling our slavers that we reject their authority they enforce with the currency system. Burning money donated by supporters may appear to be callous and rude, but the statement it would make has potential to have a much larger effect than spending the money to support the occupation alone!
The money should be used to feed the unemployed.
They should mark "666" on all the money and throw it down on the moneychangers in the stock exchange.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/666_is_money/3075326759
Welfare only encourages its recipients to depend on the government. Simply giving money away will not help them help themselves.
OWS is not the government.
If you want a revolution, you need to feed the troops.
I don't eat money. Neither do troops. It is unfortunate because we are in a bit of a catch 22, aren't we? But really, money isn't power or value. If you want to feed people, grow some food for them instead of giving them money.
I suggested using the money to feed the unemployed. As in give them food, literally. This thred was about what to do with the money.
Money isn't power? I think you're missing the mark by a long shot there. Thats the injustice we're here to fix.
Money is only power because we give it power. Technically, it is a symbol for power. The fight we are fighting is that those that have all the money are using it against us. Money is the foundation of this injustice. Money is the tool that enslaves us, because we let it. Ain't that some shit?
Thats some shit, alright.
But what I meant was the buying + selling of our democracy. The 1%, the Koch brothers, the oil barons, the hedge fund magnates, purchasing politicians to deregulate their industries. They've crushed our economy + given us a global financial crisis, the likes of which nobody's seen since my grandparents were kids.
I loved this idea till I thought about the fact that actual people sent that money in. And maybe it was really difficult for some of them to earn...so kind of an insult then to burn it.
Maybe get money from corporate sponsors and burn it? Now THAT would be awesome!
There are worse things. Maybe supporters should donate things that have real value instead of artificial value.
True true - just not great to alienate supportive people at the beginning of a movement.
Don't burn it! USE IT! Spread the message more and more don't STOP!
Don't you see? This IS using it! It's the best possible use of it. What is OWS really about? Greedy bastards? NO! People will always be greedy. We are protesting the single tool that the rich have used to abuse the system, to abuse everyone else. Money is artificial, it is symbolic value. We aren't losing anything by burning it. We still have our value, our infrastructure, our skills and abilities. You can't burn those things, but you can burn the worthless paper that enslaves us. It is ultimately symbolic.
Ok dude I meant use it to spread the word with better media tools and things of that nature. So burn the "worthless paper." But right now in this very moment MONEY runs the world dude. That could very well change. But that is not the case right now.
that change has to start somewhere, doesn't it? what better place than the stage everyone is watching?
You have a clever point sir. But burn it, then OWS gets a few cool news reports. Then what? The movement is broke and back to square one. Changes don't happen that easy.
Thank you for the compliment, kind sir (or madam). However, the movement didn't have any financial backers to begin with =) It is the message that is valuable, not the money the message generates.
haha madam :P Yes totally the message is a good thing. And I understand that message I am all for it! But winter is on it way. Who knows how long this movement can last. I think the campers could use supplies lots and lots of supplies. All that money is donation. I sent some in and I worked my ass of for that money I sent away. I don't want to see it get burned! I could of used that on bills!
I wholeheartedly appreciate your concern, but think bigger! Money isn't valuable, and you seem to understand this, but the things money buys are valuable. Burning money isn't wasting anything but paper (technically cotton). We are held hostage by those that keep valuable goods in their possession until you exchange it for money. I know you have to work hard for your money, I do too! I'm also glad you are so supportive of this movement. But money isn't important. It's not real.
Tell me, what are your dreams in life? Whatever they are, if you haven't achieved them, I bet it's because you don't have enough money to do it, am I right? Money is simultaneously the thing that allows us to achieve while it also prevents us from achieving. In the short term, burning $300,000 would be a tragedy. But in the long term, it could be the change this world needs. Keep fighting the good fight, Miss =)
Ya know? You are cool! So I totally agree money isn't real, being christian my whole life I grew up learning that. But I also have my head right up their on my shoulders. Honestly I am only 19 but I am a different 19. I have no student debt for one thing. I am not going to college. I worked my way around it for the time being. Don't get me wrong I will eventually go to college. (I will save up) I have spent all of high school doing "free work" and internships for this person to that company. And all that got me "experience" which is critical now a days. And I landed a career in the video industry. Although I don't fully trust my position because since I am the lowest I will be the first to cut. So I am still living at home until I have a decent savings. Money isn't valuable but it runs the world right now. I hope this movement changes that. I will continue to fight for my generation and al the generations to come! :)
He's really got you going.
money motivates
So does a carrot in front of a horse. Is that how you want to live your life?
Dude, no way. That money can help spread the change - burn it, you'll get some people watching... for a little bit. You, the movement, need to be a constant presence constantly on the minds of Americans. The type of change needed doesn't require us to throw out the baby with the bathwater. End the corruption, course correct and put this country back on solid footing. The monetary system rules the roost for now, so, use the tools and money you have at your disposal to move things in your favor.
The movement did not have money in the beginning, yet it became successful. It does not need money to continue its success. This movement is powerful because of the idea, because of the people that support the idea. I understand that money runs the world, but this is perfect opportunity to take our chains off, to show the world the money is not truly valuable or powerful unless we allow it to be. By burning this money we unlock our own shackles and move on to bigger and better things than this silly game of trading monopoly money in order to survive.
I agree with what you're saying - but what about the persistence of the movement. There's the winter coming up yet, and I'll admit to being concerned about the viability of the movement during the winter months. I assume the funds would help in keeping things in motion even during the tough months. If the supplies needed can be acquired through donations, have it, burn all the money you get. My main issue with burning it was the mission viability - even though I can't participate, I'm definitely rooting for everyone involved.
I also agree with your point. Perhaps we should, like Nicolas suggested, compromise and burn some of the money and spend some of it. http://occupywallst.org/forum/perfect-use-of-the-money-ows-has-generated/#comment-143544
You should never burn your money, because as the rich understand, it is the source of their power and this movement is growing large enough to start generating money on a mass scale at a grass roots level. The big corporate interests that buy our elections do it because nobody can compete with them. If we are truly the 99% and each individual were to offer up $10, that would give us 297 million people for a total of almost 3 billion dollars. Even the Koch brothers with their Citizens United push and the Carl Rove machine, that would be a lot for them to compete with. Do it just one time and then with control of the White House and Congress, campaign finance reform can be legislated. Once the people are back in control, money can be taken out of politics, but we need a money machine to out compete for air time for 2012.
I totally see your point Larry, but that's not the point. The point is that money is not valuable. It is not powerful. It is only valuable and powerful because everyone agrees that it has value and power. So the point of burning it is to symbolize that we no longer support currency's influence over us! It's like the elephants that are staked to the ground by a small rope because they believe they are not strong enough to break it.
If we maintain our credibility by doing things legally, our voice will carry much farther. It is illegal to destroy currency under the law and as a movement, we want the highest overall perception of our movement. Yes, money has no value, but think about how hard people had to work to have the money to donate to the movement. Since our message is powerful, we could possible do a whole lot more with less money than the money machines that run things as we speak.
Truth be told, because our world was gathered together over history to work with a monetary system, it would be a terrible shock to all of us as we buy things like food and clothing with our money so it has a perceived survival value unfortunately. Stating that we want to get rid of all money is so radical, unless you believe that the environment is strong enough to sustain us living off the land and hunting our own food and spinning our own wool to make clothing.
If we wish to establish credibility with the movement, we need to discuss substantive policy where we can make a real change and bring this country back to the economic structure where the middle class family can survive comfortably on one income and raise our families with the values that we all as human beings cherish. Love thy neighbor, do not covet, do onto others as you would have done to you and so on. This movement is about taking back the American dream that has slowly been ripped from us, the 99%. Money will always be there and there will always be evil. All we ask is that our elected officials give us a fair shake and if someone is pioneering, yes they should be entitled to get rich.
We need substantive policy that makes things possible as history proved by the "greatest generation ever" as they fought tyranny and lived through one of our greatest historical periods throughout the 50's where homes were affordable, consumer prices were fair and a family of four could live comfortably on a one person income.
To burn the money would cloud the message and make us look more like an angry mob in the eyes of the people that are charged with making decisions for us. Our strength is in our numbers and resolve, not in our impulsiveness to do the most radical things hoping that someone will get the message. Think back to Doctor King's message of equality through peace, numbers and resolve. That is how doors are opened. Think to Mahatma Gandhi where the Indian people drove the colonial empire out of their country not with guns, but simple protests and civil disobedience.
It is an uphill battle, but I am in for the fight with you and everyone that is rightfully upset.
Well obviously, burning other people's money without their consent would be kinda off-message. You know, like gambling with people's pensions.
It might be an interesting symbol though. Just either raise money specifically for that, or have a vote, maybe weighted, and whatever percentage of the donors agree, burn the same portion of the money.
I like your style, Nicolas. Your willingness to compromise is excellent. Carry on, good sir (or madam -- hey you never know =) !!
Have you been watching The Dark Knight a lot lately, joker? lol
It is funny you should mention that! It reminds me of this article I remember reading: http://thisorthat.com/blog/is-batman-the-savior-of-gotham-after-all-joker-effect-redux
Uh oh, sounds like game theory...
Check this out before you read another article based on game theory: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace/
thanks for the link! I will watch this, for sure!
To some extent I agree but it's pretty much a slap to the face of all the donators. :(
Now if we get a huge donation from say...Bank of America, that would be worthy of burning :)
You are totally right and that is a point a lot of people have brought up in this thread. But, at the risk of sounding callous, The donors aren't trying very hard. It's not that their hearts aren't in the right place, it's just that money isn't very useful, not as useful as, say, a pair of warm socks or a bundle of firewood or food. Sure you can go out and buy this stuff with the money, but that means someone has to take their time off occupying and go to the store to buy supplies. If there were a website where OWS could list the supplies it needs and doesn't need, then donors could send stuff instead of money. Donating money is sort of a cop out in my opinion. It's like, if you send money, you're doing something. Well, you're not doing as much as you could. In fact, you're just causing someone else to do work.
http://occupywallstreetforum.com/threads/290-Occupy-America-Doctrine-Details-Goals-of-Nationwide-Wall-Street-Movement
Although burning money as a symbol of rejection of the greedy society we live in is an appealing symbol, the point has been raised that people who donated, more than likely did NOT have money to spare, let alone burn. They donated money, because they felt this is the MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THEIR LIFETIME! This is our chance, our one and only chance to make the changes that need to be made, and alienating those who have already expressed support in that fashion is a foolish idea, at best.
I appreciate your opinion, for taking the time to comment! However, I think my idea is foolish at worst. I understand that the donations are coming from people that probably can't afford it, and the last thing I want to do is alienate them. However, look at the possible effects of such an action. Sure, we could use the money to buy supplies and campaign and raise awareness. But don't you think lighting over a quarter million dollars on fire to show that money is worthless and artificial is a great way to campaign and raise awareness?
I would say to anyone considering donating money to use it to buy valuable goods to donate instead of sending in worthless paper. By donating money, someone has to take their time from the protest, go to a grocery story (probably a corporate giant like Wal-mart) and spend it. While it is a good gesture, we can do much better. Donating money is a personal relief, an instant gratification, a way to make the donors think they are making change. That's just my opinion, though.
Donating cash allows flexability, in a way that donating 900 cases of toilet paper, or even worse, asparagus, does not. The kitchen, media groups, etc, who may need cash to buy a particular item, do not need to attempt to barter it for cash, nor worry about trying to deal with a perishable item (for those of you who do not regard tp as a perishable item, try using some that has been rained on).
Your arguments are the same pro-currency arguments I hear from all the people that can envision the end of the world before they can envision a world without money. Perhaps we could organize a web site that tells donors what supplies would be most helpful, what supplies we have too much of. All that money has to be stored somewhere, so let's store supplies in the same place. I just want you to realize that money is what got us into this mess and no amount of money is going to fix it. If it were going to, the trillion dollar bailout/stimulus would have fixed everything.
We have people starving around the world and you want them to burn the money! Get a life.
It's not about money--they need it to keep going. Hell, if George Soros wants to give a few million, take it..lol
That's funny, I never knew you could eat money! I will do my best deliver boat loads of cash to the starving children in a third world country. When they ask me what to do with it, I will tell them to take it to the nearest supermarket in America! That sure will help them!
thats illegal
OH NO! If only legality were a legitimate measure of morality.
go do some more acid. freak
you are the problem here, not me, friend. go back to the box you live in, you will be safe there. I want you to have every opportunity in life, even though you insult me without ever having met me. I forgive you.
if u really took advantage of every opportunity given u would hating the wealthy, u would be wealthy. I forgive you
I don't need to be wealthy, I have skills son. When your computer breaks, when your internet goes down, I'm the person you call. Because you can't do it yourself. When your car breaks down, I'm the person that tells you to put oil in it, to change the alternator, the one to show you how to change the alternator. I'm the one with fresh ideas because your ideas have gotten us where we are. I already am wealthy in ways you can't even comprehend. Your worldview is a goldfish in the ocean. The wealthy are the parasites of society that only have sway because they have artificial wealth. Can plant money and grow food? Can you build a house from bricks of money? Can you learn from reading money? No. But at least you can burn it to keep you warm, warm when the rest of society casts you off as a worthless individual, outdated by technology, surpassed by the newest generation, because you failed to keep up, thinking all you needed was money. And when that happens, I will be here with open arms, accepting you for who you are, even if you're nothing but a jerk.
wow ur very skilled and im sorry my creativity has only allowed me to create 3 of my own businesses and sell them. i really must be unimaginative and unskilled. and im sorry that all ur skills are better done by robots but maybe if u kept learning, thinking, and being creative to make jobs. and im sorry u dont like that changing a alternator doesnt make u a billionaire but if u wanted to do that instead then thats ur choice. there is no need to force ur views on everyone else
Sweet, so caught up in your 'my choice, your choice' you missed the point which was the first six words.
It's nice to know that some actually believe they need to be 'wealthy' without ever realizing what true wealth is.
then stop protesting if ur so happy with ur life
The vast gulf between what I see and you feel is a chasm that I would fill to allow you the view. I see though that even when that chasm is filled you will refuse to walk across it.
It is said that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, to some of us it is obvious the chain is breaking.
That's the difference between us. We will never be happy until everyone is happy. Of course, you will say, that is impossible, why try? That is the difference.
then lets agree to disagree
Now you're getting it! Rock on, friend!
ok but for everyone to agree and be happy they all must believe the same thing, hence no independent thought or intellectual diversity
THAT my friend, is where everything goes wrong! You falsely assume that for everyone to be happy, they must all agree. I'm very glad you brought that up! You see, in order for everyone to be happy, we must simply respect each other. That is all. We must respect each other's opinions and agree to disagree. For some reason, people feel like their 'way' is superior and that everyone should be forced to follow it. But I really think if we just live and let live, we can all be happy and we don't have to agree on anything!
i think u mean u want the majority to be happy...
No sir (or madam), I do not. Please don't put words in my mouth. The majority is not important. Everyone is important.
I am the one that is still learning, in fact. I will always continue learning. Robots cannot do a better job at what I do than me. If they ever can, I will learn something new. That is what I am good at. Again, money doesn't interest me. I'm not worried about becoming a billionaire. Money is not valuable, it is artificial. I'm very happy that you are a successful business person. It shows your aptitude at using a crumbling system to your advantage. My skills will always be in demand, I will always be relevant, I will always be wealthy, even if I don't have a single penny to my name. Problem solving ability is the most valuable resource. When you figure this out, you will be well on your way. Until then, you will continue to accuse people of forcing their views on you with poor grammar and poor spelling on the website you chose to come troll. U mad bro? Don't be. I should be the one that's mad, mad for the mess I have inherited from the Me-Generation, the generation you are almost certainly a part of. Remember, there's always the choice to embrace change.
if ur so happy with ur life why r u protesting?
Because I care deeply about my fellow humans that aren't happy with their lives. I care about the people that don't have the opportunities I have, even the ones that didn't take the opportunities. I love all my family, even you =) I love you!
This would only lead to bad press and the weakening of the movement. Sorry but that's an expensive way to express yourself.
Money is not the problem here and that's a ridiculous thing to say. The problem is how industry is conducting business, in particular, the financial industry.
you're not looking deep enough. I'm a computer nerd. I see everything as a system. The entire world is built on the system of money. Money is very exploitable. Humans are exploitable and easily swayed with currency. There are much better ways of ensuring that everyone 'earns their keep', the accepted purpose of currency. To go into it a bit deeper, you cannot have a free market if the playing field isn't level. When entering the game, the newcomers have zero money while the old timers have a ton of it. The old timers have a huge advantage over those that have no money. They have more influence. It is not a fair game, but a rigged one. Instead, base the economy on actions, because everyone can only do a single thing at a time. Then it would be fair. Your 'value' is then based on your past actions, your contributions to society.
What exactly are you arguing for here? Are you suggesting that money is bad or the playing field is bad?
The playing field is bad because of money. It's like playing a football game where the opposing team is given 50 points before the game even starts. How can you expect the new players (challengers) to ever win? It is a rigged game.
I don't think money works the way you think it works.
The system is flawed, the money is fine.
I totally respect your opinion, but I must disagree! The system IS money. They are both flawed! I will admit I am no economist, but I understand there is fixed amount of money and things go bad when the rich hoard it.
There has always been a form of currency in every society of mankind. We get rid of paper money, they will come up with something like electronic money. That is not the issue. The issue is the distribution of the money.