Forum Post: People Who Signed on the Dotted Line
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 21, 2011, 10:44 p.m. EST by stevilism
(130)
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I keep reading about how people who signed the loan agreement for their " mortgage have no excuse about losing their homes and that they are responsible for "reading the fine print" etc. However, what everyone seems to be forgetting is that those people who filled out the paperwork for the mortgage lied on those forms in order to make the applicant appear to be credit worthy. So...why would it be in their interest to encourage or even suggest to the borrower to "read the fine print"? If anything...the loan officer should have done the math and said, according to your earnings statement, you will not be able to afford this home once the "teaser" rate changes from 3% to 10%. But they had no vested interest in doing so....they made their money up front from all the fees...and did not care what happens after the interest rate changes and their monthly payment is tripled. So...forget about bashing the borrower....let's deal with how this was allowed in the first place i.e. lying on the application by the loan officer. If they never lied on that application...the loan would not have been approved to begin with.
American capitalism is negative and it feeds on chaos. Every single industry is extremely deceptive and preys on the consumer. This is no longer capitalism but organize slavery. Let’s faced, corporate capitalism has failed and it’s time for our government to take over the role of Wall Street by nationalizing very industry sector.
Correct, if a financial institution wielding other people's investment money does not do due diligence or care about the consequences, and follows through on investments knowingly aware they are likely to fail, then they should be held accountable. They should not in any circumstances be given trillions in dollars to rebuild. But, it has all come to pass. Greed has stripped the structure of the country of any fabric of decency to fall back on, without putting it all in the wash.
See: http://ww2.gazette.net/stories/06182009/collnew182411_32521.shtml
There is truth to what you say but not in all cases. Many houses sit empty and are losing their value as they deteriorate. The banks don't win in these situation. More and more houses are fitting this criteria every day.
Here's how to assign the blame in the "predatory lenders vs predatory borrowers" thing:
Just ask yourself who gets the longer sentence. The dope dealer with a trunkload of drugs, or the user with a dime bag?
People who took loans had good jobs and had no reason to believe they wouldn't be able to pay back the loan. Suddenly, the Wall Street fraudsters purposely crash the economy, hundreds of thousands lose their jobs, then the banksters not only accept billions in bailout money but continue to foreclose on homes that have already been paid for by U.S. taxpayers. Massive fraud and grand larceny, plain and simple.
That's a damn good point. It wasn't all that long ago that the loan officers' did just that. Integrity in business has all but disappeared I'm afraid.
Greedy banks made loans to greedy citizens. Feed the greed. It sucks that I have to bail out banks because of their greed. but it also sucks that I have to pay for idiots who so needed a McMansion, they suddenly forgot how to do math.
FWIW, I am a Democrat.
VOTE!
Wrong. http://ww2.gazette.net/stories/06182009/collnew182411_32521.shtml
"One of the nation's largest banks allegedly set up a special sales office to steer risky subprime loans to residents in Prince George's County, Baltimore city and other predominantly black communities..Wells Fargo Bank employees allege in a lawsuit. According to the sworn statements by two former loan officers filed June 1 in U.S. District Court of Maryland as part of a lawsuit being pursued by the City of Baltimore against Wells Fargo alleging discriminatory and predatory lending, bank employees targeted black neighborhoods and churches for the escalating-interest mortgages, which some in the office called 'ghetto loans.'
Many customers with sufficient income, credit and savings to qualify for fixed, lower-interest mortgages were still urged to take subprime loans..because the higher rates meant bigger profits for the bank: 'If a loan officer referred a borrower who should have qualified for a prime loan to a subprime loan, the loan officer would receive a bonus.' "
okay, then I'm also paying for weak and retarded greedsters. The banks suck for what they did, but people should still be responsible for themselves. are you implying that blacks are stupid and gullible?
VOTE!
The responsibility for any bank lending decision rests with the financial institution making the decision. These practices made their way out of the Black community into the larger community.
"We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." MLK
(Unless you are MLK, please stop relying on quotes to make your point. These canned quotes everywhere these days are scary.)
Businesses have responsibilities, as do consumers. Both should be held accountable. Borrowers are being held accountable by losing their homes. Banks should definitely be held accountable too.
VOTE!
"The banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. They denounce as public enemies all who question their methods or throw light upon their crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe."
Abraham Lincoln
Congratulations. you haven't a thought of your own.
VOTE!
The primary responsibility for any bank lending decision rests with the financial institution making the decision.
You still have not responded to the truth of this statement.
Don't bother now.
Your inability to speak to the facts is your answer.
I did respond. The banks have a responsibility, as do consumers. What the banks did was illegal. what the consumers did was stupid.
The mortgage companies encouraged their sales staffs to show their customers how to fraudulently fill out the forms and then assured these same people they had nothing at all to worry about and not to bother reading the 1000 pages of ultra fine print. Why? You might ask did sales folks do such a thing? because , they were generously rewarded if they did so and punished or fired if they refused.
I have an experiment for you to try. Go to a new car dealer and inquire about the most expensive car on the lot. See if the car salesman tries to talk you out of it because "you can't afford it". Loan officers are paid on commission just like the car salesman. Reality is, the buyer should be smart enough to watch out for themselves.
Does that same rule apply to a business that is chopping mortgages up and spreading them around as fast as possible?
"Spreading them around" or selling them to someone who is looking to buy them? Demand creates supply.
http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2010/2010-59.htm
By the way...I used my down payment money and bought a used car for cash...no loans. I drove that POS until I got a better job and could afford something better. Again...I just think it was crazy that you suggested the experiment. I will never forget that experience at the dealership. I was crushed that I could not afford the car I wanted. And having to hear someone say..."you do not make enough money to buy this car" gave me a horrible feeling. But...I sucked it up...worked hard and bought the car eventually. However, I am thankful to the loan officer for being honest with me. She motivated me improve my standing by being honest.
That's the way it's supposed to work. Everyone has to realize that once you sign, the salesperson or loan officer isn't going to help make the payment.
Not help you make the payment...they are supposed to be upfront about what it will cost you. This is the issue.
Loan documents are standardized. The info was there. Its hard to feel sorry for someone that didnt take the time to read them.
And how do you feel about the mortgage company or loan officer that failed to inform the borrower that their monthly payment was going to triple in 3 months? They are OK? They are blameless...yes? Were they being honest with the borrower?! What responsibility do they share in this mess?
Everything you need to know about your loan rates & schedules is plainly available on paper PRIOR to closing on your home.
If you can't be bothered to read or can't understand the loan terms, the onus is on YOU as the buyer to get educated. Find a friend who can explain the documents to you. Post on craigslist and pay someone $50 to take an hour of their time and walk you through what you need to know.
Everyone has tons of options before they race to sign on the dotted line.
That is wrong and they should be punished if they mislead borrowers. However, the terms of a loan are in black and white. How do you feel about borrowers who were so greedy to get that loan that they didn't bother reading the terms?
I am not sure how you can classify any individual borrower as "greedy". They are borrowing money...which means that they do not have any money...if they were greedy to begin with...they probably would have had money.
I am not sure you that you examined the terms of the loan. You are making it sound like you were in the room when the terms of the loan were disclosed to the borrower. We have to imagine that if the mortgage company or loan officer clearly stated in plain English..."Your mortgage will be $500 per month for the first 3 months...and then it will go to $1,500 per month after wards"...that the majority of the borrowers would have declined the loan.
I could imagine that some were "excited" about getting the loan...but I don't think that anyone is "greedy" about getting a loan...I mean...that's just crazy. However, like I said...maybe they were excited, happy, etc at their chance to participate in the American Dream of home ownership. I do not think that anyone get's into a mortgage with the worst of intentions. There is a sense of pride and accomplishment in owning a home.
There is clear evidence that there were predatory lending tactics when creating these loans. So, let's not suggest that the borrowers were somehow complicit in the farce.
Most of your points are well put but you are wayyy off on borrower greed. I saw many borrowers eyes glazed over with greed as they thought about buying the home and then selling it at a huge profit. Or, refinancing with a big cash out because inflating values pushed their equity up. How on earth is that not borrower greed? And yes, the years I spent at the big bank afforded me more time spent in closings than I care to remember. And yes, those borrowers were explained the loan terms by the title company so I don't buy the ignorance plea.
It is common knowledge that predatory tactics were used in many of these loans and it is easy to feel sorry for the victims unless of course you are a predator.
Many, yes I would agree. All or even close to a majority, I think not. Debt addicts wanted more stuff, bigger stuff, better stuff. They went looking and found a willing lender. One is just as much at fault as the other.
Many here don't get that because they don't think having ethics or morals amounts to much. They think, WTF its a dog eat dog world and if you too fucking stupid to ask, tough shit I'm going to bilk you and then when you complain I'm going to laugh in your face. This is Wall sts. attitude in a nut shell.
If it's a bad deal, don't sign your name forty times on the documents. Are we really that childish that we need someone to read them to them or draw pictures? C'mon people, where are the responsible adults in this country?
Not on Wall st. that's to stuffed with lying scheming thieves.
Hah! Very funny!!! I actually did this about 4 years ago!!! Yes...the the salesman was all over me and showering me with attention and working real hard to sell me the car. However, he brought me into the dealership and sat me down with the loan officer...once she "crunched" all the numbers, she explained that the payments would be more than I could afford...and told me to opt for a less expensive car!!!! I cannot believe that you gave this experiment...because I already did it...that's a crazy coincidence. I did not have to "watch out for myself"...the loan officer was honest with me and she did the math and realized that the monthly payments would be too high for me (not just the payments...she also figured out how much my insurance would be...which she did not have to, but she did...and again...she was honest with me and told me I was better off getting a less expensive car...or put down more money!!). Anyway...trust me...the loan officers who have did the paperwork never had any intention of revealing to the borrower that they would not be able to afford the payments. They knew this...but did not care to inform the borrower.