Forum Post: OWS = violence
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 23, 2012, 12:55 a.m. EST by uncensored
(104)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Another day of protest, another day of violence...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/occupy-sf-protesters-throw-bibles-bricks-at-cops/
That wasn't us; that was the black bloc. From what I can tell, the main function of the black bloc is to break things and make trouble. The black bloc hangs out on the fringe of this and other movements, waits until nobody's looking or the rest of OWS has bigger things to worry about than a few fools dressed all in black, and then puts rocks through windows or does something similar and OWS takes the hit for it. As far as I'm concerned; the black bloc needs to be kept well clear of OWS and if necessary shown the sidewalk a couple of times until they get the idea that they're not welcome.
That sure isn't how the 99% see it on TV and the net.
And that's a serious problem that the Occupy movement needs to really work to do something about. I can tell the difference because I've been following this thing for the better part of four months and most of what I've seen tells me that OWS wouldn't decide to do this as a movement. That said, when you combine the problematic media coverage we've been getting (which is partially our own fault for not getting our shit together and getting out in front of the press, but partially the fault of the press as well) and some of the earlier misbehavior associated with OWS (the thefts, the sexual assaults earlier on, and some of the earlier vandalism the black bloc was responsible for) that we didn't deal with quickly or aggressively enough we're going to have a problem. People are going to start seeing patterns and stop trying to distinguish between the movement as a whole and whatever fringe group is causing trouble this time. Essentially, this is starting to turn into yet another serious black eye for the movement, and we should have been out in front of this crap before it happened.
So what do you think of talk or even joking about assassination (although it doesn't sound like a joke to me)?
[-] 4 points by ZenDog (4782) 1 week ago
We should convince the NSA that these clowns need to go. They have a distinct history of subverting the will of the people, and doing so in ways contrary to the benefit of the nation.
One single plane accident that gets them both, combined with a bit of forecasting, will most certainly get the rest of the nimrods in line.
They are all cowards - which is what makes such procedures generally so successful.
The full thread here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-tea-party-and-the-koch-brothers/
He's not serious, and if he was I highly doubt that he'd be enough of an idiot to telegraph those intentions on a forum half full of libertarians and conservatives who see the Koch brothers as much-maligned examples of the American ideal of hard work. More likely than not he's merely indulging in the kind of wishful thinking that is generally not supposed to be said aloud (but people indulge in it anyway).
Re-read. He didn't say "I hope they die in a plane crash..." That would have been wishful thinking.
Serious or not, it's dangerous. Yet he got a +4 vote and no one denounced his comment.
In any case, OWS turning to violence wouldn't be surprising. Occupy in Rome did that a few months ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aMD4QIvGUE
Why the fuck would they do that? Every fool knows that those kinds of stunts are a great way to lose badly; smashing things may be fun, but when the rest of the country curb-stomps you to make sure that you don't smash their things (whether that's an actual danger or not) those tactics lose their appeal to all but the true loonies. Unfortunately, by then it's too late to fix things.
The anarchists who have founded the movement want a revolution.
They are inspired by the Egyptian protesters who have embraced the use of property destruction. They also hold Bhagat Singh in great esteem. He was a revolutionary inspired by French anarchists. He did a lot to free India, and his modus operandi was the use of violence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagat_Singh
OWS is also heavily inspired by the 1968 days of the Barricades in France. There was violence during that protest, and it was very effective. It's a proof that violence can work at times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968_in_France#The_events_of_May
Near the beginning of the protest, there were also references to the Days of Rage in Chicago; a protest that almost turned into a mini civil war in that city.
I don't know, to me it seems obvious that OWS has been demonizing the police for months in order to prepare people to the idea of violence. By creating the impression that we are victims of police brutality, it promotes the idea of revenge.
If OWS was all about creating a better world, they would strive to create it by starting up anarcho-syndicalist companies and the like. Really, all they want is a revolution like in the Arab Springs, the 1968 Barricades in France, or in india.
There's one Occupy group in europe that placed a guillotine in the town square.
As far as I can tell, OWS seems to now be welcoming the efforts of the black bloc. OWS is certainly not committed to making official statements like it once did in order to distance itself from the black bloc, and the latest news articles on this site seem to indicate that OWS actually supports their violent methods.
I exchanged messages with a few anarchists this week, and they all agreed that destroying public property was an important tactic to achieve the goal of revolution. It seems the Egyptian protesters have turned to this, and I also noted that many anarchists prefer the methods of Bhagat Singh to the ones of Ghandi.
I wonder if there has been an official decision regarding this by the general assembly.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/has-ows-changed-their-stance-in-regards-to-the-bla/
I have no idea, but I have to say that if in fact they've decided to embrace those idiots then they've made a tremendous mistake. If we want the rest of the country to listen to us and answer with anything but pepper spray and batons we're going to have to go out of our way to look and act normal, and avoid big displays of vandalism and stupidity like this. I'm a freshman at MIT and I agree with the principles driving OWS, but I don't have the time to get involved physically and living in Dewey Square is hardly conducive to keeping up with coursework. Different strokes for different folks is all well and good, but at some point we need to agree on a general platform and get people all on the same page.
I already suggested creating a PR workgroup composed almost completely of moderates and responsible for giving interviews, going on talk shows, etc. to promote us. The idea would be for OWS to shell out a couple of hundred bucks per member for a suit, a shave, and a haircut, and to require the members of the group to abstain from drugs and heavy drinking while involved. If people felt it necessary to put checks on the PR workgroup it would always be possible to staff it on a rotating basis. While we're at it, though, the least we could do is put the black bloc in the box and make sure it stays there.
I certainly agree with you. Using violence is not the answer.
However, I'm convinced OWS has been using various propaganda tactics to demonize the police and prepare for the use of violence like we have seen in Egypt and in Occupy Rome. I think it's just a matter of time before OWS becomes clearly violent. From what Iv'e read and what I can tell, it doesn't look good.
Ideally, OWS would put the black bloc to rest once and for good. However, this would really surprise me. Most of the founding anarchists like Derrick Jensen openly support the destruction of property and have talked about this to OWS protesters.
I'm just frustrated because the farther OWS goes in this direction the less I can support them even if I agree with a lot of the policies their actions should have produced. I've been waiting for four months for some sort of tangible positive policy action to come out of all of this, and while I'm generally pretty patient I can't stay on board if these fools decide to turn into the next Black Panthers.
I agree, the difference is that I already stopped supporting OWS because of this reason. I'm hoping for another group to emerge. One that wants to work within the current governmental system instead of one only interested in using direct action to create enough tension to cause a revolution at all cost, even if this means violence.
For me to trust OWS again, it would have to be extremely clear that it does not want any part of the black bloc doings. In the last few weeks, I have seen the opposite.
I might be wrong. I'll wait to know for sure before I support OWS once more. I prefer Ghandi's approach than the one from Singh.
Meanwhile, be careful for raining Bibles.
http://www.the-99-declaration.org/
http://www.americanselect.org/
Yes, these groups hold some promise.
Was this direct-action of throwing bricks and Bibles from a rooftop the product of a GA decision?
I wonder what they have to say about this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/has-ows-changed-their-stance-in-regards-to-the-bla/
It's going to be interesting to read the Leftist spin from the OWS Forum gang here.
"we were just standing around throwing bibles and bricks when suddenly, the cops jumped right in the path!"
LMFAO!!
I'm surprised they didn't throw korans.
Oh, wait. They could get their heads cut off if they did that...
Yep,they sympathize with and fear the Muslim but piss on and shit on the Bible. This IS OWS at one of it's finest hours.