Forum Post: OWS + Tea Party = Change
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 25, 2011, 11:16 p.m. EST by littrellb
(199)
from Hillsboro, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
If the Occupy individuals and Tea Partiers could could focus their energy on things they have in common I really think things could change. Getting money out of politics is something both sides can agree on. But of course you wont hear this in the media because those that own mainstream media don't want us to know this. If we keep spitting at each other then they've got nothing to worry about.
And let not kid ourselves here, there is no way campaign finance reform or any other 'money out of government' changes will happen by our government. Why would they take away their main cash cow? It has to be on us, together, to make the change. Lets do it.
While I think the stated principles of the tea party or many of the tea party organizations are aligned with ours I think there is a large divide to cross. As a case in point see here: http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/10/21/tea-party-leader-occupy-movement-a-%E2%80%98freak-show%E2%80%99-and-wall-street-undeserving-of-blame-for-economy/
According to the head of the Tea Party Patriots (not funded by the Koch brothers): "We the people know what caused this terrible economic crisis. It wasn’t capitalism or American freedom. Instead it was out-of-control government spending, sky-high taxes and
rampant cronyism and corruption in Washington, D.C." He further called on his members to push back against the liberal media claim that we are aligned with them.
He should call them to push back against the conservative media also. They are just as bad. I have considered myself a conservative for a while (though that might be changing) and I think some of the biggest idiots in this whole mess are Glen Beck, Bill O'Riley and Rush Limbaugh. They are so ignorant and short sighted.
OWS has things in common with many groups, but that does not mean an association. OWS comes from the 99% it needs nothing more than that. It sure as hell does not need a political albatross.
No it does not. It does not need the labels that are tied to such groups and the negative connotations tied to those labels. However, it does need the people. Not the radicals, just the regular citizens who desperately want change in this nation.
Agreed. 100%.
We can be divided about our ideologies - but at this point, there is no adherence to the will of the American people. Nor will there be any until the money is out of politics.
OWS + Tea Party = Self-destruction
What better way for the 1% to maintain control then to dilute our message and increase dissent within OWS?
Valid point. I just think that the normal unradical people from the TP and OWS are the people that will make the change. OWS will accomplish nothing if it can't reach the normal citizens in this country on both sides of the political agenda. And It should not dilute our message but rather band together to promote with one resounding voice, we want change now.
everything is this; http://vvstore.jp/i/vv_000000000014079/
note how none of the actual teabagger here are responding. you are deeply naive if you think right wing libertarians share are goal of getting the money out of politics.
How do you know?
libertarianism by its nature believes owners should run things. that is why they advocate privatizing everything. they are authoritarians who cloak themselves in the language of liberty.
Deep stuff. You dont think that any of the people that believed in the glimmer of change the TP offered for that brief while would support this issue. Not the owners, but the common people.
So does that mean that Change - OWS= Tea Party?...hmm, I am glad that business and banking only requires up to 8th grade level math. [wink] Thank goodness for spreadsheets. [pats a Microsoft Excel Step by Step Guide]
Seriously, there is a lot of talent in the Tea Party, as there are talented Liberals, Conservatives, etc. There is no reason to take you and your gifts for granted. I think that the special interests in Washington can also be a great source of OWS support. We should listen carefully to special interest groups, before we write them all off, as the problem. There are plenty of Unions, likely to be, sympathetic to this movement and many other special interest groups, of all kinds, we may be able to get backing from. They all fall under the money in Washington umbrella, too. [pats Michael Mulgrew bobblehead doll]
I say anything other than a citizen does not need to be involved in this. Keep all money out.
Yes, and I know people may disagree but I think it is enough for the individuals in the Unions to support our movement. Union support brings negative connotations with it. Im not saying that unions are bad, but some have been extremely corrupt. And if individuals succeed in making positive change in this country, it will also benefit individual's rights within a Union.
I'm on board. Just ignore my liberal agenda and remind me tofocus on getting money out of wash dc. Hell I would let tea party or libertarians whatever conservative group give a try first as long as they start campaign finance reform and work for the best interest of America. If it works they stay if not give the green party and liberals a shot or just mix it up. Fuck anything is better then this shit
This is what I've been saying and I think the majority of people here agree. But to some, it's as if you had said something about their mother. They are the trolls and some misguided individuals.
Yeah, from both sides. I hear stupid people supporting a blind "conservative" view but they really dont know what they are talking about. Same as there are those 'Liberals" that just want everyone to agree with their radical views. The thing that will make this country great again is the balance of the two sides, not pushing one agenda over the other. As we can see with our government today, the battle between Congress and Obama doesnt hurt anyone but the common citizen.
http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html This proves how important this inequality problem is!!
Very informative with real data. Great stuff. And the mainstream media critics think we're crazy for properly distributed wealth. We're the stupid ones.......
Agreed. Unfortunately, the fringes of both movements are rabid and hard-line in their beliefs.
True, but couldn't they agree on a single thing? If its not a right or left ississue, just an issue that's for the good over every citizen. We need to make them listen.
They could, if they could get past their petty labels and fears. IMO that is doubtful, but I agree with you it would be great if it happened. OWS is about welcoming all, at the heart of it, but many aren't exactly being tolerant of those to the right of their personal stances.
Yes. And the TP doesn't exactly welcome extreme lefties. Its so frustrating. Its like nobody learned how to respect others opinions and right to different points of view. Lets grow up and make a real change.
The TP has been too co-opted for the OWS to join together. OWS is, rightfully, amorphous. The TP already has an established "image" in the eyes of the Americans and the media. Besides, to join up with any already established party or organization opens the door for the media to paint the OWS as endorsing those organizations' ideal. OWS isn't about left or right, Republican or Democrat, etc. OWS doesn't need the "Tea Party" per se, but what it could use are INDIVIDUALS from the Tea Party that endorse the OWS plans and ideals. There's nothing that says a person couldn't be a member of both, is there?
Exactly, there is not. I totally agree. The TP is just a label now like "republican" or "Democrat" and the media uses that label the same way as it does the others, to DIVIDE US. I wish we could all turn off the TV and radio for a while and just listen to each other.
Exactly. One of the biggest hurtles is to resist labels of any kind. Labels divide. I think that's one reason OWS is resistant to forming an alliance with ANY organization, be it unions or whatever. When a label is attached to anything, preconceived notions are formed that may or not be true. Personally I've always disliked labels. Society, however, hates ambiguity, therefore everything is forced into pigeonholes to make it easier to deal with.
Yeah, its a messed up system. Uggh, so frustrating.
Well, . . . we aim to change that ;-)
I want change so bad. I just have a problem with patience and can sometimes be skeptical if things will really change at all. I just want it done now. I want every citizen to rise up and march on DC and do something real. Something immediate.
I couldn't reply down below so I went here. If you mean the march on Washington, I don't remember exactly. It was either one of these posts or possibly a link from one of the comments. I've been to probably a couple hundred links in the last two weeks and it's impossible to keep it all straight. If it comes to fruition though it will definitely pop back up. Sorry. If I do come across it I'll try to hunt you down and link you to it.
Patience, my friend, patience. I usually resist cliches, but like I told someone else earlier Rome wasn't built in a day. Big changes, which this is, take time and careful planning. It does get frustrating when things seem to move so slow. But consider, we've only been at this three months. The first American Revolution took seven years. On a positive note, I think I read about a week ago there is a plan to march on Washington next spring with hopefully as many as a million people. It takes time to effectively organize that many bodies; permits, logistics,etc. Picture that! That's front page stuff worldwide.
Where can I find info on this?
ya OWS should welcome everyone but form no alliances.
Yes, any individual is welcome. Even some of the 1%'ers, if they agree with our principles. Probably won't be seeing too many of them down at the park any time soon though ;-)
And you think you "occupiers" have NOT gotten an established "image" in the eyes of Americans and media... You CAN'T be that far removed from reality! In case you are, YOUR image is spoiled youth with a very limited intellect. This would never be anything the Tea Party would be associated with. You really need to stand back and see your "movement" the way the rest of the world is seeing it.... far left anti-capitalist extremism bent on revolution. Without a STRONG denunciation of such organizations as the Communist Party, the Nazi Party, Unions, etc, there is NO way you can make the statement that you are apolitical.
All you are doing is listening to the BS that's inundated the media over the last few weeks. If you know anything about this movement you would know we aren't associated with ANY established party, organization or movement of any kind. Do not get your opinion of OWS from the media. In fact, you shouldn't get it from this forum either. This site is rife with trolls, disinfo, antisemitism, racism, pro-Obamaism, none of which represents OWS in any way. And of course the media is painting us as spoiled, uneducated, youth. They, and those that control them, are very afraid of OWS. They're on the attack. Check out some of the moderated websites that have sprung up that are associated with OWS. This one isn't moderated, that's why it can't be trusted to give you an accurate picture. By the way, I'm 52, own my own home and, although not highly educated, definitely not spoiled and fairly intelligent. And unemployed.
BTW, I am all of your last two sentences also (except 53). I'm sorry but your "movement" IS being judged by the way it is portrayed on TV and the internet. You insist you have no "leader" and that is part of the problem. You have no one to stand in front of MSNBC, Fox, ABC et al and forcefully say that this "movement" does NOT condone the messages being spewed in the name of OWS. Until that happens, I can't see how you will ever be portrayed as anything different than what you are now in the media.
Oh yeah, we're being judged by the way it's being portrayed. That will change. In fact, there's someone on this site as we speak (screen name FedWallFedWellFedUP) that's trying to get a list going of the top twelve most visible, popular voices that represent OWS for media conferences in cities around the country that will be broadcast worldwide. That should help in the PR department. And as for having no definite platform or leader, there is method to their madness. The fact that OWS is by its very nature amorphous is a deliberate move. It confounds MSM and the power elite. They don't know how to deal with it and therefore can't organize any effective counterattack against it. How can you fight your perceived enemy if you don't know what it looks like? It's actually a shrewd move. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say, I'm not sure if that was really all that clear. And OWS isn't too worried about it's image in the media right now. We're not going away any time soon, and I think by next spring people's perceptions will be radically changed. Sorry for the long-winded response.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Yes. That quote has been floating around quite a bit lately. Can't remember who first said it though. Gandhi maybe?
The parties have been driving this divide for a while specifically so that the people will not unite to correct their behavior. The extremes of both parties are the useful idiots that ensure the status quo will never change.
yep I think that the establishment is actually posing as Ron Paul supporters in order to create the divide. Because the conservative republican numbers around here are quite low.
The con and Repub numbers are low because Fox, Limbaugh, MSNBC and the rest of the media are making this out to be a left vs. right movement and the politicians weighing in on this movement do nothing to help it either.
exactly. It's so obvious who has not so ulterior motives.
the Koch brothers have given the Tea Party $20 million
they thought the Tea Party would lead the revolution/change
and they thought the sheeple would follow
lol - fuck koch and their fake protest Tea Party tooooo
Koch + $$$$$ = Tea Party
Haha yeah. I dont deny that the tea party label has been sold to the highest bidder. But the individuals that believed initially that the tea party offered change, those are the people that can make a difference with OWS.
Totally agree with you want on that one...but it'd be difficult, debate is 50/50 sometimes it brings a resolution on some middle ground, other times it just entrenches people into their own opinion stronger...then it just becomes name calling and arguing...
And another thing is OWS will get sold out too....
Yeah, its too bad. Money corrupts everything