Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: OWS should learn from Israeli protest movement!

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 10:46 a.m. EST by mestevez (14)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Our collective group doesn't understand all the issues that plague our country nor do we understand the solutions to the those problems. Understanding our limitations is key to the success of this movement if it is to be successful. Our success hinges upon the incorporation of the intellectual class of this country. This was done in Israel, where a panel of professors was put together by protesters in response to Benjamin N. weak response to the mass protesting taking place right now. OWS and its organizers need to seek the wisdom and guidance of our professors and intellectuals to help us define what is hurting the people of this country and what laws need to be enacted or re-enacted to fix this fledging country of ours. Noam Chomsky is one person I can think of, whose knowledge and guidance would be of great assistance to this movement. Their are others, from various fields that should be sought after by the movement to help us move this country forward.

8 Comments

8 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 1 points by diego3 (1) 13 years ago

I'm impressed Marleny

[-] 1 points by candlelighter (16) 13 years ago

I don't have all the answers either but I follow the motto of Immanuel Kant who said: Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when its cause lies not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] "Have courage to use your own understanding!"--that is the motto of enlightenment.

But we will see :)

[-] 1 points by mestevez (14) 13 years ago

@candlelighter I can appreciate what you are saying but at some point we will need to define our objective and furthermore define what we see as victory. What do we want to come out of this? How will we define victory? Here is where our collective group can use the insights of people who understand the issues a bit better than we do. Our movement will not succeed if it is only the poor, young, and marginalized that are out fighting for the rights of all. We need to figure out how to get not only the intellectuals to back us but the so called working middle class as well.

[-] 1 points by mestevez (14) 13 years ago

@candlelighter and yes we do have many who are smart but acknowledgment that we don't have all the answers is a good thing and the notion that we will do this all on our own is misguided. We have come this far and can go so much further but we need the help of people that although not a part of the 99% economically, are sympathetic to our cause because intellectually they understand that the current system as it stands will bring down the 100%

[-] 1 points by candlelighter (16) 13 years ago

I see your point and there is nothing to be said against Noam Chomsky. But do you get my point? We should focus on breaking our own limitations and develop something we can understand and really own.

Furthermore this is a leaderless movement so how can a movement seek guidance? Of course some individuals can seek guidance and that's ok. For me the key success factor is not necessarily one common goal or one common voice but rather creativity and the development of real alternatives. At least at the moment.

But of course people like Noam Chomsky can inspire us.

[-] 1 points by mestevez (14) 13 years ago

@ candlelighter Noam Chomsky is by no means a part of the system... Professors, a liberal bunch as is noted on Fox News constantly, are people who have spent their lives understanding law, economics, politics, history etc. It is not a matter of handing over anything over to anyone but seeking guidance and help so that we can better define the problems that hurt us all and figure out how to solve them.

[-] 1 points by candlelighter (16) 13 years ago

I think this movement should not focus on the so called intellectual class as they are often part of the system. People should rather focus on their own intuition and learn to understand things by themselves. I think this movement has a lot of very smart, educated and innovative people. Of course input is welcome from all sides but the people should not give away the initiative, but really create alternatives. OWS should not to hide its light under a bushel. Just my opinion

[-] 1 points by Mcc (542) 13 years ago

We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent already own nearly 1/2 of all United States wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. Still, they want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.