Forum Post: OWS needs to come together and support Ron Paul
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 13, 2012, 8:55 a.m. EST by xposingfalsehoods
(39)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I understand that we all may not agree with everything he stands for, we are all humans and will never agree with each other, but everything that OWS stands for and is fight for is exactly what RP is challenging. I can stand here and list what he is against, we all know but the fact that hes the only one that is talking about NDAA and SOPA should make us jump for joy!. remember hes not a republican, hes a man of principal running in that party because of the biased system. if OWS wants to be a real force, its time we get behind this politician who is like us and wants to destroy the bull in the political system..and unlike every other politician his record backs it up.
Ron Paul needs to come together and support unionized labor.
Ron Paul supports individuals not groups...rights belong to individuals!
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I would be open to a public audit of the Fed, and if it shows significant dishonesty and irresponsibility I would be open to nationalizing it and handing its functions over to the US Treasury Department. As far as tariffs on imports go, that's the only way I can think of to begin the process of bringing jobs back to America and raising the wage of the average worker. If he's not going to work to address one of the major causes of long-term unemployment and wage losses then I fail to see how it's a good idea to vote for him.
I'd also like to see a great deal more clarification from Mr. Paul on which sets of regulations he considers outside the constitutional jurisdiction of the government and which ones he considers vital reforms that need to stay in place. Honestly, given his rhetoric on the matter I don't know what to believe and I don't want to believe he's one thing only to find out the hard way that he's another. I want the Patriot Act gone and the TSA dismantled, and I think he and I can agree on that. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley vote is a good sign but until I can square that with his rhetoric and get an actual platform from the man I'm not going to consider voting for him.
His comments on the EPA scare the shit out of me; Essentially most of eastern North Carolina stinks to high heaven because of hundreds of millions of gallons of pig crap from factory farms is being let to marinate in open-air lagoons and/or sprayed into the air as an aerosol. It's actually gotten to the point of ruining something like nine or ten waterways and causing China-esque air quality problems. What really takes the cake, though, is the leaky nuclear waste dump in Andrews County, Texas that happens to be sitting on the aquifer that provides drinking water to seven different states. This is the kind of crap the EPA belongs fighting, and eliminating the one agency that wants to clean up the environment is an enormous step in the wrong direction.
On top of that his talk of flat taxes and imposition of the gold standard makes me profoundly uncomfortable. A flat tax is by its very nature a regressive tax, and in order to bring in the same revenue as the current system it would have to take the difference out of the hides of the people who can afford it the least. He also wants to tax capital gains (essentially money created without any actual work being done to earn it) at a lower rate than regular income, which is just plain incentivization of laziness on the top end. As far as the gold standard is concerned, the first thing you learn in economics 101 is that credit needs to be relaxed rather than tightened to deal with a recession, and moving to a gold standard would pretty much strangle credit at the time when that would hurt us the most. Once again, bad policy.
Besides, the man's apparently a young-earth creationist. That pretty much tears it for me. I don't care what else he is, if he deliberately shuts his eyes to basic science (whether it's to pander to the religious right or, even worse, if that's an accurate reflection of where he stands) there's no way in hell I'm going to trust him with the country. If the man decides that continually verified truth doesn't matter because it conflicts with his beliefs then on some level something has gone very wrong.
Bringing the troops home is fine and dandy, but we're already well on our way to doing that; there's a very good chance that pretty much all troops will be out of Iraq by the end of December 2011, and we're going to have all of our combat people out of Afghanistan by sometime in 2014. Also, Paul has never explicitly stated his willingness to truly get everyone out of those countries, nor do I see him being in the position to do that.
As far as other issues including the war on drugs and the role of government in our lives, Ron Paul isn't so much for individual freedom as he is against expending the time and money on the part of the feds to curb those freedoms. The guy could give two craps if people are executed for homosexuality or performing abortions or smoking weed just as long as the states are imposing and carrying out the sentences. That to me is incredibly scary, and it should be to everyone else here as well.
So far, I see a man who's gotten one, maybe two things right (his no votes on Gramm-Leach-Bliley and S.1867, and his desire to put the Fed under a microscope). However, those two things are pretty small when you consider the number of things he seems to be promising to get wrong as president.
Given all that, why do you still push us to vote for him? Do you disagree with the facts below, and if so where do you claim I've gone wrong? Do you want to see a chunk taken out of the Pentagon's budget so badly you're willing to do it at such a high cost to the rest of the country? Or do you believe that we should support him because neither establishment Democrats nor establishment Republicans can stand him and you want to make those two groups squirm at any cost?
On the EPA Paul treats the problems via property rights. That a polluter must pay for polluting you property, whether it is private or public property. Basically no one has a right to pollute your air. Paul wants to target EPA abuses, & all government programs that abuse their positions, but doing away with the ones that can be handled on a state level.
My question to you is what deserves more support, government officials who break the laws time & time again, or one who lives within them? For example Obama & the NDAA, assassination of American citizen (& their kid), ignoring court orders to appear in court, starting undeclared wars, pushing for more military abroad, etc (just google Obama+breaking laws & the list goes on).
Last question is what do you think of this statement Paul said back in 1988, "if we would have followed the advice of the founding fathers and not allow this power structure, this group of elitist bankers, & industrialists to get control, not only of the banking system & the monetary system, but really our foreign policy & our government." To me it sounds like Paul has been against corporatism since before OWS.
"I would be open to a public audit of the Fed, and if it shows significant dishonesty and irresponsibility I would be open to nationalizing it and handing its functions over to the US Treasury Department."
Here's the dishonesty you're looking for when it comes to the federal reserve
7.7 trillion dollars created out of thin air for their own private interests - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUpXDZFtEHw
Ummm....no.
Chris Hedges spoke to Occupy DC on Monday on this and other topics. Here are links in 4 segments Enjoy!
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeEDwuePSQ
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WLM4zC_zUo
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg73PUW-heY
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP-teuQbOPs
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I read Occupy's Manifesto - and agree with every single item on it.
Ron Paul agrees with mostly none of it.
He's a fraud and his supporters are (some wittingly and some unwittingly) undermining this precious movement for economic justice and human rights:
Who Is Ron Paul? In His Own Words…
*Anonymous Hacks White Supremacist Site, Finds Direct Links to Ron Paul – Ron Paul’s connections to Neo-Nazis revealed: “The documents show numerous connections between Republican candidate Ron Paul and these racist Neanderthals; they’re heavily involved in campaigning for Paul, and according to the messages, have held regular meetings with Ron Paul himself: Ron Paul, the American Third Position Party and Stormfront. Also revealed: Ron Paul has held meetings with A3P and Nick Griffin, leader of the British National Party — the notorious UK fascist group with neo-Nazi roots.” Anonymous Statement: http://pirasec.com/ http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/39862_Anonymous_Hacks_White_Supremacist_Site_Finds_Direct_Links_to_Ron_Paul
[VIDEO] Ron Paul promises “big cuts” in new ad:
“Paul has vowed to cut $1 trillion from the budget in the first year if he were elected president by ending the U.S. Departments of Commerce, Education, Energy, Housing and Urban Development (HUD), and Interior.
The Environmental Protection Agency, Food and Drug Administration and Department of Defense would also see deep cuts under his budget plan.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/05/ron-paul-promises-big-cuts-in-new-ad/
[VIDEO] Ron Paul: End Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid: http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/04/ron-paul-end-medicare-social-security-and-medicaid/
[VIDEO] Ron Paul Calls For Federal Public Lands To Be ‘Sold Off To Private Owners’: http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/10/21/349536/ron-paul-public-lands/
[VIDEO] Ron Paul plans to ‘eventually’ end all federal student aid: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/23/ron-paul-plans-to-eventually-end-all-federal-student-aid/
[VIDEO] Ron Paul Rejects Evolution: http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2011/08/ron_paul_rejects_evolution_too.php#more
[VIDEO] Ron Paul’s powerful pro-life ad: http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/14/video-ron-pauls-powerful-pro-life-reminder/
Ron Paul: No Church/State Separation: http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/08/06/authoritarian-or-libertarian-ron-paul-on-churchstate-separation-secularism.htm
[VIDEO] Ron Paul in a nutshell:
“ThinkProgress compiled video of just a few of Paul’s many claims that basic laws and essential programs violate the Constitution. A short list includes Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the National Labor Relations Board, the Federal Reserve, income taxes, and even the dollar bill.”
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/12/20/392728/paul-everything-is-unconstitutional/
[VIDEO] CNN: Ron Paul’s Racist Newsletter – Paul Walks on CNN Interview “Rep. Ron Paul’s (R-TX) emergence as the front-runner in the Iowa GOP primary is bringing new scrutiny on Paul’s newsletters from the 1980s and 1990s. The newsletters, published under his name, included content claiming that African-Americans are trying to give white people HIV, suggested that Washington, DC is “anti-white and proud of it,” provided instructions on how to murder African-Americans, and warned of “malicious gay(s)” who spread HIV.”
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/12/22/394625/ron-paul-storms-interview-racist/
5 Reasons Progressives Should Treat Ron Paul with Extreme Caution -- 'Cuddly' Libertarian Has Some Very Dark Politics
“He's anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-senior-citizen, anti-equality and anti-education, and that's just the start.”
http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152192/5_reasons_progressives_should_treat_ron_paul_with_extreme_caution_--_%27cuddly%27_libertarian_has_some_very_dark_politics?page=entire
Ron Paul [Election 2012] Hires Christian Right Political Activist with American Family Association for Church Outreach: [Quote] Paul has brought several Christian conservatives onto his campaign in an ambitious effort to reach believers for his cause. Michael Heath, the campaign's Iowa director, previously worked for a New England-based group called the Christian Civic League of Maine that fought against adding sexual orientation to the state's Human Rights Act. The national campaign has tasked Heath with leading church outreach in Iowa, where for months he has met with pastors and Christian congregations. "That's the biggest part of what I'm doing as state director," Heath told Yahoo News after a day of knocking on church doors with campaign literature. "Going to churches with a message in support of Dr. Paul's campaign that is very much faith-based and is also rooted in his commitment to a constitutionally defined limited federal government." [Unquote] http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/mike-heath-resurfaces-ron-paul-iowa
[VIDEO] Ron Paul’s Full Speech at the Christian Fundamentalist Values Voter Summit 2011 Paul won the straw poll. Note the organizers listed on the screen behind him: Liberty Council, American Family Association, Family Research Council, American Values, Liberty University – the entire Christian Reconstructionist crew all gathered together under one roof.
Listen to ALL of it. Paul says that government has no place in education and that the responsibility for educating children should fall solely to the family. Reiterates elimination of the Dept. of Education.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnj-5z9NJoY
Paul Rosenberg: Exposing Religious Fundamentalism in the US [Ron Paul included] http://spencerwatch.com/2011/09/07/paul-rosenberg-exposing-religious-fundamentalism-in-the-us/
Saint Paul: Inside Ron Paul’s effort to convince conservative Christians that he’s their man [Paul tells Yahoo his policy ideas are rooted in scripture – see former Paul staffer Gary North’s “10,000 page exposition on Biblical Capitalism”] http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/saint-paul-inside-ron-paul-effort-convince-christian-150637605.html
Gary North’s “Biblical Capitalism” [Christian Reconstruction] http://www.garynorth.com/public/department57.cfm
Rachel Tabachnick on Gary North, Christian Reconstruction, and the Religious Right’s War on Progressive Economic Policy http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/2/1/132159/0192
Like Father Like Son, Rand Paul Opposes Civil Rights Act and Americans with Disabilities Act: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/rand-paul-address-ralph-reeds-religious-right-conference
Ron Paul: Stealth Dominionist: http://www.religiousrightwatch.com/2011/09/exposing-religious-fundamentalism-in-the-us.html
Random Book Blogging: Gary North, AIDS, Ron Paul, and Christian Reconstructionism http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/random-book-blogging-gary-north-aids-ron-paul-and-christian-reconstructionism
Ron Paul photo with White Supremacist ‘Stormfront’ Leader (particularly see the embedded Orcinus link): http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/21/425193/-Ron-Paul-in-photo-with-Stormfront-leader,-son
Dominionists discuss infiltrating #OCCUPYWALLSTREET: http://www.articlesbase.com/news-and-society-articles/is-gop-stance-on-the-occupy-wall-street-movement-a-mistake-5317528.html
Ron Paul's brand of tea party is exactly the same as the fundamental Christian right's brand of tea party (look up “Gary North: Biblical Capitalism”). Paul simply dresses his ideology in secular terms for Republican dupes. In short, he’s a libertarian theocrat, oxymoronic as that sounds (look up “theocratic libertarianism” as well while you’re at it).
See: www.theocracywatch.org for background on Christian Reconstruction.
Your rights end where mine begin...that's "regulation"!
Ron Paul says he will close down five federal departments - this will increase unemployment, disrupt federal-state administration of social service, cause severe decline in state run educational institutions, and increase crimes as kids drop out of school and social services are eliminated. Paul and his followers seem to think that by merely closing down government agencies that this will miraculously improve things in society. But they never tell us what they propose to put in their place or how society will actually benefit from further closing of schools, hospitals, prisons, rehab services, regulatory oversight, health/safety inspections, fire fighting, police, etc.
I certainly agree with Paul that we have no business being involved in overseas affairs. But why doesn't he demand that military bases in Texas be closed down, just to set an example? No state in the Union (with the possible exception of California) benefits more from the military industrial complex than does Texas. Yet, I have not to this day seen him say that his state should set an example for all others by eliminating the Federal government's Pentagon there.
If Paul wants to be believed, he needs to take actions that are consistent with his professed ideals. This is something he has never done. Therefore, OWS has no business supporting him.
Funny how people say Paul is for corporations when in fact corporations hate Paul because he can't be bought out by them. How can anyone believe his policies would help corporations when corporations are doing everything they can to discredit the man?
It would be hilarious if Obama got the support being how his administration is full of wall street, & Obama's actions taken so far fly in the face of OWS.
All the other republicans are shills, so OWS has no one to support? How can one man (Dr. Paul) who once OWS showed up said they where legit when everyone else showed distaste for them, not get support from OWS?
Over all you have to say what is more important, staying with the status quo on wars, & corporatism, or throwing support with the man who wants to kick corporatism out of bed with the government, & who wants to end the wars, & return to a sound economy, not an economy based on debt that is unpayable?
I've done too much research that shows Paul is the man, & that other people who show lack of support for the man don't really understand his positions. For instance "The guy could give two craps if people are executed for homosexuality or performing abortions or smoking weed just as long as the states are imposing and carrying out the sentences." This is putting words in Paul's mouth (to say) because Paul's standing is the opposite of this claim. How can saying "I don't support the death penalty" turn into I support the death penalty for gays, abortions, & weed smokers. This is misrepresentation, & demagoguery. You have to take the slanders words for it, & given proper research shows "ARod1993" lacks it.
I mean, you can easily fathom that people who are against end the fed are for the fed, & therein for the devaluation of currency, for bailouts (research how the fed operates privately) & for corporate special interest. I mean Does OWS stand for monopolies because the fed is a monopoly of the money supply.
Anyways, OWS will never get anywhere if it doesn't support the right people, & doesn't attack the root of the problem.
takers vs makers & OWS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__-fIAHPcKQ "Coyne argues that we want a society with many makers and few takers. In order to obtain this outcome, we need to limit the takers by placing constraints on government, making it difficult to use government to take from the makers. Therefore, Occupy protesters worsen the situation when they ask for special government privileges such as eliminating student debt."
My research on Paul shows me that he supports Coyne 's assessment. How do I know this? Because Paul talked about how we should limit government so corporations would not need to get involved in politics. If OWS doesn't support this, then it is obvious OWS has died.
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Ron Paul -- Inimical to OWS!
"OWS needs to come together and support Ron Paul "
That's like saying that OWS needs to come together and submit to gang rape.
Ron Paul and libertarianism is inimical to everything that OWS represents. Libertarianism is the religion of free market extremism that has propelled Wall Street and their minions in Congress to gleefully crash and pillage the U.S. economy.
Not true. Especially since the free market "extremists" have been decrying the coming crash before it hit, & that they've been trying to stop it. This system crashed without Free Market economics. It crashed with keynesian economics, that boasts that their ideology will lead to no crashes, or small short dips, but not crashes. I mean the system is supported by extremists given your assessment of the opposition.
Anyways if you cared for the truth I would recommend looking into those who predicted the coming crash because of the lack of the free market (Peter Schiff, & Ron Paul).
Ron Paul's Randroid Libertarianism is the opposite of everything Occupy stands for -
Occupy is a movement in opposition to corporate and concentrated wealth's corrupting influence in government.
Paultards reject this fundamental reality, in their view the only issue is "government's corrupting influence in big business and concentrated wealth."
If you disagree with the fundamental basis of a movement, your pathetic attempts to swing that movement 180 degrees to back your pro-corporate ideology are nothing more than co-option and propaganda.
So should one believe you propaganda instead? I could easily make broad statements of Paul supporters, or OWS, but that will just prove I am making broad untrue statements.
"Occupy is a movement in opposition to corporate and concentrated wealth's corrupting influence in government."
I Paul is quoted as saying this is a legitimate cause. I know more Paul supporters who are against corporate special interest & the need for change in that regard.
Corporations hate Paul because they know he is not on heir side & can't be bought & paid for, & do everything it takes to discredit the man. You can't ignore the facts here.
Your last paragraph is projecting & not based on complete truth. Only what your views are projected onto other people. Maybe if we are not so rash to making broad over generalized statement we'll be more united, instead of childish name calling.
Ron Paul doesn't support a flat tax he support no tax Ron Paul supports ending the illegal wars Ron Paul supports personal liberty Ron Paul supports sound money Ron Paul supports ending the Fed Ron Paul supports getting rid of all subsidies including those for corporations
If you are a bum, a loser and looking for a hand out...this guy isn't your guy...but if you love freedom, a fair chance and you're ready to end the wars...'nuff said...
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with comments like this and such a division then there is no way OWS will ever grow. all it will be is a bunch of disruptive people. who yell for change in the system, and finally there is someone who promotes the change and all you want to do is find something wrong with the man. jesus really, this is how you change the system, you get behind someone in power and tell them what you want...he is for ending corporate greed, hes for competing currencies, eliminating many federal departments and protecting this country. I dont know what else you guys want. im glad i distanced myself from this movement. at times I regret all that I did for it. it started with such hope
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anyone who puts down Ron Paul is a 1% shill.
anyone who calls him a racist is a fool or a shill.
Who is the ONLY candidate that does NOT want to bomb more brown people.
The one 1% would be scared shitless if we began to support Ron Paul.
What Chomsky says about Paul is just parroting what the corporate media says about Paul, which are lies. Easy to pick & choose what you listen to in Paul, & it shows with how Chomsky reports on his views. Paul is for federal involvement, but Chomsky would have you believe otherwise. He also shows how he wasn't understanding Paul's meaning on the hypothetical would someone who could afford health insurance, but doesn't get it be expected to be taken care of, which Paul said the beauty of a free nation is we take responsibility for our actions & not expect someone else to cover what we could have prevented (in this case paying for a higher bill), Paul's answer wasn't to allow the man to die, but to not have everyone pick up his check, that he should have been responsible for it, & therein pay for it. Chomsky says Paul would have allowed the man to die. Chomsky also reports falsly of what people where cheering for. People yelled yes when asked if he should allow to die, Paul said no, people cheered. Than says it is a call for corporate tyranny. Such a huge statement without facts to back it up. Given how he has been lying thus far, it is hard for that statement to hold water by itself. I used to support Chomsky, but then after researching everything I kept finding more & more lies (before this Paul statement). So given the link I couldn't wait to hear what he had to say. So sad. Such huge propaganda.
Also Chomsky has a very pessimistic view of the world. Easy for such feelings to spread. Random acts of Kindness still exists http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=d7413kgyn7 & is surprising when looked into. So much you can thank it for it's creation & current upholding of the web.
Vhan, u r a smart dude,
i used to be a Chomsky fan and now I see him for what he is.. controlled opposition .
RON PAUL!!
vote for whom ever you like.
I can assure you, I won't be voting for a repelican,
and that would include your messiah from TExasss
I will never support him and you guys need to accept that. The man is bat shit crazy.
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Ron Paul or anyone at this point. The useless libtard has got to go
Don Imus is that you??? Yet we are to believe Ron Paul and his cult are not racists. SMH!!
You are going to lose because you don't have anyone.
Hahahahahahahahaha.