Forum Post: OWS For High School Project
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 3:12 a.m. EST by Gr8Gatzby
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Hi! My name is Gatzby. My reason for posting is to solicit your help. I’m currently a senior in high school, and for our political systems class we had to choose a “current event” and follow it for 10 days. I heard about OWS from “sxephil.”
My teacher is super conservative. He’s practically in love with Herman Cain. Any time I mention the OWS he cynically and passive aggressively shoots it down. He’s really smug about it too. However whenever I try to defend it he brings up the anti-Semites, Marxist, “Extreme Liberals” who associate themselves with the OWS. FOX and CNN are not helping, and he won’t accept RT as a source with any merit.
So my question for you is… What is the general consensus of the OWS concerning goals and ideals? And… What sources of unbiased information supports these? Maybe you could suggest some reading material as well?
I really want to support and follow this movement for my project, but at the moment it’s difficult to tell what exactly you want. Accountability is a give in, but it’s too vague for Mr. Wilson.
People are suggesting specific demands at occupyanddemand.com
This is what was conceived as a possible "one demand" by adbusters back in july
http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/occupywallstreet.html
"We demand that Barack Obama ordain a Presidential Commission tasked with ending the influence money has over our representatives in Washington. It's time for DEMOCRACY NOT CORPORATOCRACY, we're doomed without it."
This has been described as an "open source" movement. If you know what open source software is, you'll understand a bit better why the "demands" have not be clearly presented.
Open source - a collaborative effort where everyone can contribute and improve on the original product.
Cain: "If you mess with Israel, you mess with us." That says it all for me. He is totally corrupt and beholden to a foreign government.
Why do you think he values our relationship with Israel so much that it borders on corruption?
Because Israel is in complete control of Congress and much of our foreign policy. He doesn't "value Israel." Rather, like every other candidate, he is afraid of it, lest they support his rivals.
What is there to be afraid of?
If you don't care that our blood and treasure is manipulated by a foreign government, not to mention christianity itself via the zionist schofield bible, which led to what is today known as christian zionism, then there's no hope for you.
Whoa! slow down! I don’t know anything about that stuff. I’m only in FS Political systems. Instead of making hurtful accusations why don’t you suggest some reading material or an article for me? I just want to know why you think Israel has that much influence. Facts dude. I need facts.
Sorry. There is plenty out there. Google "Aipac owns america" or similar phrases. Read Scheuer's blog www.non-intervention.com
here's a start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaJYLHvBEZ8
Thanks. I'll be sure to read this objectively and get back to you.
Gatzby, please read the following blog for your project. It will help you learn!
http://occupiedblogger.blogspot.com
Thanks for the link. lol. I've got so much to read. Thanks everyone for the help.
You should compare and contract OWS with the Tea Party. There you will see why he despises OWS.
Wait. Is OWS a political party?
OWS is nothing but a bunch of cry babies that want to tell their parents how to do things. No they are not any type of party But, you should concentrate on the different ideas. Corporate greed.. what exactly is it...using the government to take money from people and give it to others...
This article on FOX is suggesting OWS will become a party. Like the tea party affiliates with the republicans. Do you think OWS are considered democrats or liberal? Do you think it will become a party over time?
The OWS is liberal. No, it won't become a party. Just take a look at their donation page. They can't even organize their own laundry and food. Do you really think a group like this can do anything capable?
So do you think OWS will accomplish any of their goals?
They have goals, other than free meals, free washing and gym memberships?
So are you against the OWS? If so what action do you suggest people take to improve the U.S.?
Get off their arses, go to work and think before they vote.
I understand there are business men, attorneys, and professors who are a part of OWS. What would be your advice to the OWS supporters that are currently employed? Do you think people should trust and depend on the executive chief to make the right decisions rather than protesting? Lol Sorry for the 100 questions, but opposing points of view would be good for my presentation.
Which chief executive are you referring to? President? My advice to OWS supporters that are employed is to keep working and quit complaining.
Yes, president. Don’t you think America is in a poor state? What about debt, unemployment, inflation, ect. I for one think if people never voiced their displeasure with the government that nothing would change. Do you agree? Do you recognize any problems in the way the U.S. is governed or how our economy operates?
The best way to voice your concern is where it counts. Your local rep. Gather support and that will get their attention. Tea Party has done a great job of that so far.
That’s actually a really great idea. I’ll write my local Rep ASAP. Thank you for answering all my questions. Do you mind if I quote you in my presentation?
Sure. Your rep should take it on with eagerness
There is an official declaration here: http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/
Thanks for the link! It was very helpful.
and this would be very useful for your project too: http://current.com/shows/countdown/videos/ryan-hoffman-lex-rendon-on-the-making-of-the-occupy-wall-street-declaration
they talk about how they came about the declaration. it goes through a general assembly committee, which they hold daily, where people vote and discuss on things. They call it a "Direct Democracy".
Try non-US sources, I see a much more fair coverage of the movement on my local news station (which is in danish and thus no use for you sadly) then on CNN.
Try perhaps British sources or other English speaking countries.
I'll be sure to check into those. I think BBC is in the UK. If only i could speak danish. lol
Also you are going to get a lot of different views on here but some are actually trolling. You can usually tell them from actual protesters because they have no clue what the movement is about and will say things like your teacher said. We let them hang out here. We represent them too and maybe they will change their mind one day after accidentally reading this site.
Hallo Gatzby! We're living in interesting times, in the Chinese proverbial sense.
One thing that you and your teacher must both understand is that this is a complex issue. The systemic problems that have led up to this movement are so deep and so varied that the solutions for them cannot be condensed into a single catchphrase. There are few unbiased sources because people feel so strongly about this – both within the movement, and those who fear it. Go to occupytogether.org and see if there's an occupation in your town that you can attend. Interview people. Attend a GA (general assembly). See firsthand how it's happening and who is attending.
I also highly, HIGHLY recommend that you delve into some research regarding who owns various media networks, politicians, etc (as well as who recently donated over $4 million to the NYPD) as evidence of why they're reacting the way they are. Look up the story about Burger King refusing to serve protesters to the point of calling the police on them when they tried to purchase coffee, with an eye to who ultimately owns BK. We are clawing our way up the strings to take on the puppet master, and he's twitching them hard to try to get us to fall back down like good little marionettes.
I think there was a presentation in Atlanta. I could get a ride there. And yah, the more I read, the more I’m realizing how deep rooted these issues are. As far as information sources, I considered looking more into global new stations thinking since they are less affected at the moment they wouldn’t as invested in the outcome and therefore more impartial? Maybe? Idk. I’ll take your advice and start looking into the BK event, and comparing media sources. Thanks again! And do you mind if I quote this in my presentation?
Global news in an excellent idea. Believe it or not Al-Jazeera (which as I've discovered is not the mouthpiece for Taliban anti-American rhetoric that we've been led to believe it is) started covering OWS well before and in more depth than American press, though there's an awful lot of 2001-era bias against it by name alone. BBC is another really good source for global news. Be my guest, and best of luck!
Thanks again! I'll look into both scources ASAP!
This is from wiki and i think gives a general good overall view- "The participants of the event are mainly protesting against social and economic inequality, corporate greed, and the influence of corporate money and lobbyists on government, among other concerns."
I will put it to you like this. We are a proper grassroots movement. We do not have any official leaders. Everyone can speak and everyone is heard. We are not liberals, conservatives, Christians, Atheists, hippies, druggies, kids, senior citizens. For the purpose of this movement( and i will limit the rest of this post to the portion taking place in the US) we are the people. We are bottom 99% on the ladder of wealth. We are who the constitution was written for, we are who the founding fathers created this nation for. We are Americans. We do not want to be individually labeled because these labels divide us and that is how they conquer us.
I am an atheist and a liberal, but i will stand with my right wing and my Christian brothers and sisters on this as one because we are all Americans and this is OUR country. Our fathers gave us this country and they feared what has been happening would happen.
I point you to this quote: " I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
This is what this movement is about at the core. We have nothing against rich people in the sense of how much money they have. We do have something against how they use that money and in how that money was obtained.
Our fore fathers died to conquer this country for us and we are letting the United Corporations of America take it away. We are the people and we are here to both do the governments job( which is to govern and protect the people) and to take control of our country and lives back.
As for your teacher this is what i would say( which doesn't mean it is what you should say) to your teacher: " Turn off the TV and stop being a corporate sheep. Use the internet and your brain and educate yourself. Learn who we are and that you are as much as part of us as any one else in the bottom 99%. Cast off the corporate chains and learn what it feels like to be a true American and patriot. Learn the taste of real freedom. It will be unlike anything you have ever felt before but it is exactly what your forefathers wanted".
One of the many reasons we dont have a " List of demands" is because we represent all the people. We need a consensus from as many people as we can get so we accurately represent all the people. I would like to see more conservatives and more Christians and other normally right wing types. I would like to see more independents. I want to see everyone represented not just who i identify with. And if it takes us some time to make sure everyone is represented( within reason) then so be it. Unlike our representatives it is important to us that EVERYONE is represented even if we do not agree with them. Because we all have one thing in common we are all Americans and we are all "We the people" in the constitution.
Tell your teach to chew on that one. And he is welcome to join us. We would love to have him. But if he doesn't want to that is ok we will still try to represent him to the best of our abilities.
Lol. This would definitely show Mr. Wilson. I also must commend you for your open mindedness. Most atheists I know aren’t so eager to work with Christians or conservatives alike, which is why this statement is particularly inspiring. Thanks for the quotes as well and the sources. This makes the citing a lot easier. Unfortunately our school district banned “wiki leaks” and Wikipedia in general. Thanks again! And do you mind if I quote this in my presentation?
Not at all. Wikipedia in a recent study, ok, annually for like the last 5 years, on major topics was nearly as accurate to more accurate than mainstream encyclopedias. This is depending how far down you round your decimal on your percent in many years. I think your teachers need to update their education level and learn about this thing called the internet. You can cross reference material here until the cows come home. Also they need to learn to research a source before they judge it, otherwise they are making assumptions out of ignorance. And they obviously didnt, otherwise they would know the general accuracy of wikipedia is on par with other encyclopedias. Wikileaks, i cannot vouch for. You can tell them i said that as well. In fact screenshot it and show them.
That would be a nice little side project, to get my school district to unblock Wikipedia. It’s ironic, because they tell us so much that in college we will need to look at several sources and be able to interpret there merit on our own, yet they censor a lot of information sites.
My g/f got two degrees in college recently( last 4 years) one in graphics design. The other was accounting. 90% of her professors allow wikipedia as a source.
As for sources, This is the source. It cannot get anymore unbiased than this. Wiki may be accurate but may be a little biased and many other places will be biased. Unbiased is kind of a pipe dream. You cannot have unbiased sources. Because those sources are written by people who are always going to be biased. You have to look at the material presented and pick out the facts from the opinion. Cross referencing sources helps to paint a more accurate picture.
But for this movement, you cannot get anymore unbiased than this site. Because this IS the movement. The people you see talking on here are the 99%. They are the ones protesting. That is as close to the source as you can get.
Now if you have to provide an opposing view you would look at the corporate view as well, which is going to be more difficult to do.
You could use the source list of wiki to get more information in a traditional sense. Again you will have to pick out the biased from the not so biased. Really what your teacher wants is something that HE trust and he has already shown that he is biased against the OWS.
As an example, as an atheist, i do not consider religious texts or websites as credible information. But many Christians do. We are both biased towards what will accept as a source based on a current view of the subject. And it is a debate i have with Christians often. Your teacher is that way too. He is biased on what sources you can use. A good teacher tries to remain neutral as much as possible.
I considered looking more into global news stations thinking since they are less affected at the moment they wouldn’t be as invested in the outcome and therefore more impartial.
Global News would be less biased, but i want you to remember something, all news is controlled by corporations. All corporations have an agenda and that agenda almost always involves making money and protecting their interest.
Since we are not limited to the US and we are global all media that is ran by corporations will feel threatened to some degree. Yahoo for example censors this site if it is typed into a comment or Y!Answers text box. It also censors this site: http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/
That is a site you should check out( and you teacher should too, tell him i said that) because these are the 99% as individuals and their stories. They use the common screenshot as proof method by writing their story on a piece of paper and holding it up for you to read in the picture. That way you know we are not just a dozen people spreading propaganda and trying to look like thousands. Yesterday their were 65 pages about this time today their are 71 with about 15 people a page. And those people only represent a small portion of us. But we have a lot in common with them, more than you would think unless you read their stories. We are more alike than many people realize. We just settle on our differences because that is what the corporations and politicians want.
I didn’t realize that they had that much of an influence on information sources. Regardless, thanks to people like you I can now find honest sources of information that allow me to make up my own mind.
News is very biased. Especially mainstream broadcast American news. Now globally, I do not know how biased. I do know that the UK has some of the most biased news sources in the world. No offense, brits. But you should check who controls the company that controls the company that controls the news. Fox for example is extremely right biased. Whereas most other US news sources are moderately liberal to near extreme liberal biased. But all are biased towards their profits and protecting those profits. And profits are what we are threatening with OWS. Sadly, we wouldn't have a problem with most companies if they were ethical and fair to consumers and employees.
In a way i feel sorry for your generation. Because you come out of high school into this mess where you might as well hope for winning the lottery as finding a decent job. You have it better off than most of us though. Fast food and such hire mostly people your age because they know you are not committed and you are not going to ask much or have enough experience to know that they are bending you over. So your lack of experience both in life and in employment will beat any resume.
My g/f a few years ago was turned down for a job at taco bell. She is now 41. The manager asked her why she wanted the job that she was over qualified. And she said, " Does this job have a pay check on friday?" and he of course said, " Yes". She then said, " Well i have kids to feed so if it has a paycheck on friday i want the job". She didnt get it. He hired a high school teen instead, which is no surprise.
It was wrong of him, in my opinion, to pick a teen who lives at home over a mom who has kids to feed. This is how unethical our businesses have become. And while we had to suffer through it, maybe can change it so your generation and your kids do not have too. But it is important you keep it going. You see somewhere along the way we lost the way. We all became corporate sheep. Slaves to the machine. Don't let that happen you or your children it is not pleasant. This is your country not the corporations. Your forefathers died so you had this country to call your owns. We forgot that somewhere along the way but we are going to get it back.
The constitution is the most important thing. Do not ever let politicians manipulate you into believing something is in the constitution that is not and vice versa. The constitution is what gives you all your power over the government and all those would oppress you. Do not make our mistakes and become sheep.
You have the power of the internet. It is a very powerful tool. You do not have to depend on the media for information like many of us did for a long time. Research EVERYTHING. Get the truth.
Ok i will stop rambling now. I ramble when im tired and i been going at this nonstop for 16 hours online. Lazy my *! I missed a few words in there. My brain operates much faster than my fingers even when im tired and i cant be bothered fixing them.
I’m really sorry about what happened to your g/f. It’s sad that’s how some businesses are run, but is there any way to stop the practice of hiring inexperienced youth over older men/women in critical situations without considering Marxist ideals or affirmative action?
This was my first day on OWS, and coming from Face Book, where every status is under like 10 words, it’s surprisingly exhausting to keep up with all this information, but my project is slowly taking form. Actually talking too you guys was a lot better than using Google.
I could write you a book on the crimes against humanity that business commit daily from my own experience. I wont place all the blame on the ( mostly small)business. Some feel they really have no choice in order to stay in business.
The entire system needs redone. It just isnt working. It has all been corrupted by corporate greed. Our lives have been based on greed and corruption for to long to just fix the banks or a few mega corps or politicians. It has became a system of dog eat dog. Step on who you have too to survive. Who cares who you put out, whose lives you ruin, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. But whose eggs are you breaking to make that omelet in today's system? People just like you.
This is a totally unacceptable way of doing things. I should not have to ruin my neighbors livelihood to get ahead. I should not have to step on others to climb the ladder of success. What makes me so special? Because i am more devious? More heartless? I have less morals? Sadly, these things are greatly rewarded in our current system. The more ruthless you are, the more successful you will be. Sure their are exceptions. But this is the rule not the exception.
It is a complicated problem that has no simple solutions.
It seems loosely defined - I hear most about Wall St corruption. Most of the people seem ignorant of the fact that Wall St and Washington are in bed together. Do a little research on the % of the current administration that are ex Wall St and the number of ex-officials (appointed and elected) that are on Wall St. To clean up Wall St you have to clean up Washington first.
Good Luck!
So you are saying the government is just as responsible? Now it doesn’t seem to be just focused on corporations, implying alternative economic systems are superior, when it’s the relationships between specific officials and Wall Street that are at fault as well. Thanks again! Do you mind if quote this in my presentation?
I am actually suggesting that government is the most responsible. The justice department can ruin anyone they want to - we need to reign that in too - imo - they have way too much power for such a corrupt bunch
I'm just someone interested in fixing our country and trying to get people with energy to focus on the right target. I could not stop you from quoting me and would be pleased if you did.
I believe, by all of you so actively standing up for what you know to be right, that you’re doing a great service for our generation in the future. Thanks again!
Please read: http://occupywallst.org/forum/can-we-end-the-fed/
This isn't an attack on the rich. There is nothing wrong with being rich. There is a problem with being rich and stealing from the poor. There is a problem with few people controlling the wealth, and to that end there is a problem when those who control the wealth are not helping their country and society progress.
How do the rich steal from the poor?
Think about it like this. Rich people put extra money in the banking system in order to earn more money without doing anything productive. On the other hand, poor people borrow money from the bank which they then pay interest on, so that they can grow the bank account of rich people. Much of the middle class inevitably become enslaved to their debt. Is that the free market? An endless cycle of debt? An economy which utilizes war to sustain itself. Fuck naw. That aint right. That aint American.
Whether you'd like to believe it or not, we are all enslaved to the mass debt that America has accrued over the years. What will we do? How can we break free?
End the Federal Reserve. It's unconstitutional and damn-fucking immoral.
Some say real free-market economics is the best system, although we've never really seen what that looks like. The Federal Reserve squashed any hopes of a free-market economy. In my opinion the most innovative, necessary, and implementable solution is a resource based economy.
Project Earth: A Resource Based Economy Explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
If you love capitalism, but hate the Federal Reserve, ask yourself this: if the current market is a failure, how can you erase the world's debt? We in the US owe the world everything. Not only are we indebted to the world literally, but we, the leaders of the free world, have been leading the destruction of the environment for how long? Do we not owe it to the world to fix it? We have much of the world's resources, we have the greatest education system in the world, what are we doing wrong?!?! Why do we not take it upon ourselves to construct a sustainable global economy that is based on the natural resources of the planet and use this global economy the repay our debt to the world? I know people love to fantasize about the wealthy and powerful America, but listen, we're indebted to the world! Time to grow a pair and pay the world back. And I know, a resource based economy is “Communist” and “Utopian” STOP ASSIGNING MEAINGLESS WORDS TO IDEAS. The system is a resource based economy, and it is neither communist nor utopian.
Thanks! I think I get it now. Do you mind If I quote this in my presentation?
Do work son. Spread the word.
you could probably google 'welfare nation' or 'entitlement culture' to really understand what is being promoted.
'welfare nation' and 'entitlement culture'. Got it! Thanks!