Forum Post: OWS enemy #1 is Grover Norquist. He is a mainstream conservative on issues other than tax and is a director of the board of the National Rifle Association---Grover Norquist: the tax lobbyist with an iron grip on the GOP
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 22, 2011, 3:50 p.m. EST by USCitizenVoter
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Grover Norquist is a mainstream conservative on issues other than tax and is a director of the board of the National Rifle Association---Grover Norquist: the tax lobbyist with an iron grip on the GOP
Grover Norquist has a death grip on on our government employees careers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/21/grover-norquist-tax-lobbyist-supercommittee-gop
His anti-tax pledge, which protects the 1% while gutting necessary services for most of the rest of us, cuts across party lines.
I'd like to see everyone join me in working to unseat any politician who has signed it.
No senator or representative should be signing a pledge to a lobbyist.
He is a real piece of work but he's not the puppet master. He's a puppet masters minion. I think the senators or representatives signed the pledge before they could become a sponsored politician.
He believes he can primary from the right and take their job away, and they believe it as well. That's a lot of power.
I agree with you but these MFs lobbyist and their counterparts have surely broken some laws and they need to pay for screwing up our country. I'm not suggesting cutting off their heads but they need to get some prision cell time and pay a fine or two. I want some satisfaction since my kids are getting the shaft.
I'm afraid that what is legal is what the laws don't address, and the laws are written with the help of lobbyists.
The fact that these people have gotten away with selling out the majority of our citizens in one of the most powerfull nations on the planet is mind blowing. I realise we have history lessons teaching us that nations in the past have had similiar occurrences within their governments to bring them down. It's too bad their plan included wiping out our bank accounts in the process. If they were pirates they would have to walk the plank. But since they are leaches then maybe they should be baked it the sun. LOL
That's why "sunshine is the best disinfectant" and transparency laws are called sunshine laws.
Yes, let's bake the leaches by exposing them.
cmt, you just posted the number 1 comment of the day.
There are so many potential "enemy #1" out there we could argue all day about who it is and never get anything done at all.
Enemy #1 is faceless - Enemy #1 isn't human. Enemy #1 is the institutionalized corruption in the system.
If we allow ourselves to get derailed into going after the mere constituent elements of that enemy, we are not only losing sight of the big picture, we are running a serious risk of being co-opted to serve the political or economic rivalries of the elites. We must oppose the corruption as a whole, until we shift the paradigm, and not ever lose sight of the forest for the trees.
dont excoriate this "man"
LEARN from him!
His technique - using voting blackmail against politicians to attain his goals WORKED!
Bad for you - bad for me - bad for America -
But worse if we dont learn how we can do it!
Using his method may make you feel like you are shoveling sh_t -
but it can clean out the sewerl
"The capital of democracy is the vote"
There is something interesting about Grover Norquist besides his staying power. He marketed himself as a conservative Republican who also is against any type of minimum wages. It does amaze me that moderate Republicans would sign any document not drafted based on their own platform ideas or those ideas of the people who elected them to office. I would love to see someone draft a moderate/liberal Republican document and have conservative Republicans sign it. It just wouldn't happen. Elected representatives in the Republican Party owe Mr. Norquist nothing and were duped by misguided peer pressure to sign a document that unless you truly were a conservative which many are not.
11/22/11 A South Korean MP lets off teargas in a parliament voting session. The man is fighting for his fellow citizens jobs.
Opposition politician Kim Sun-dong sets off canister in attempt to stop ruling party ratifying bill on free trade deal with US
Proponents said the deal, the largest US trade pact since the 1994 North America Free Trade Agreement (Nafta), could increase commerce between the two countries by up to a quarter. But the opposition claims it will harm South Korean interests, putting jobs at risk.
It's just the globalization of the workforce. Corporate CEO's claim it's good for everyone. Our elected politicians fall in line like little ducklings feeding off this revolutionary idea because it provides one thing far more important than American jobs. It provides out elected representatives access to corporate money and the ability to parlay their contacts into lucrative private sector corporate jobs once they leave office. Our leaders will not set off chemical agents or even stage a news conference if there may be a chance that they would have to break away from their corporate funded party platform and instead represent the people who elected them to office.
Hasn't it occurred to anyone that any person who considers soliciting a 'pledge' that at some point becomes contrary to the Oath of Office congress persons take is a person who should be investigated and placed for prosecution? After all, this person has placed himself above the Constitution, above the constituents of everyone who signs this oath, most likely under some form of duress given this man's 'status'.
Grover Norquist is actually our best argument against professional lobbyists.
The question of being against the Oath of Office has been raised, but not by anyone that the pledge-signers would listen to. CBS did something on it - link below. They focused on the GOP, but there are Dems who have signed on.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57327816/the-pledge-grover-norquists-hold-on-the-gop/
I don't care who signed it, Democrat or Republican. The fact remains that one man feels that it's his right to request a pledge that could very well compromise the Oath of Office elected officials make at some point in time and may even compromise it at the moment of signing.
Evidently CBS didn't think it important enough to push or it was a heavy news day and it got tabled...more so it's our elected officials that may be compromising us, so it should be up to us to correct the problem.
It's actually widely known to political junkies like me. CBS may not have felt that it was very startling.
Maybe it's time to hire the attorneys and get a class action law suit going.
In conjunction with other actions, perhaps.
like they say in poker "I'm all in"
I am not legally knowledgeable enough to say one way or another but it is worth looking into.
I think he's #3. Number 1 and 2 are Charles and David Koch. We can vote out public servants who sign Norquist's pledge, but the Koch brothers are pretty much setting policies in the states they took in the last election.
O yes I can't be forgetting those bad guys. sorry
The mainstream conservative who's married to a Muslim woman and sits on the board of directors of GOProud? Ya'll should like this guy. Even the NRA isn't a terrible organization unless you hate the Second Amendment. The fallacy here is that being anti-tax is somehow a bad thing; higher taxes aren't good for the 99%.
Maybe higher taxes are not good for the 99%, but they are definitely good for the 1%. It's time we end this nonsense of our country being in debt. If you tally up all the income in this country, the whole idea of debt is almost a joke. If we had a viable, working, progressive income tax, then it's hard to imagine. Sorry, though, because property taxes are what most really complain about, and those are regressive.
You think we're not really in debt?
In debt? Yeah. We're in debt, according to how the tax system is set up. At times, I suspect we are forced into more debt because of the balanced budget amendment, but I can't be sure of that.
When I say that the idea of being in debt is a joke refers to the idea that it is because the rich are not properly taxed. The government can't find ways to get us out of debt, because they are trying everything they can to avoid losing support of their richer interests. Unfortunately, that means that we need to support ideas that at this time might not be a welcoming factor to a lot of people, like supporting a maximum wage or a reverse income tax.
On one hand, you can say that we are in debt because the economy tanked. On the other hand, you can also say that we can encourage upward mobility through income redistribution and a far more progressive income tax system.
No, we're in debt because we're spending absurd amounts of money on bombs and entitlements. If we taxed the rich all the money they owned, even that couldn't get us out of debt if we keep spending like we are now. Not even if they took your money and mine. This isn't GOP propaganda; it's pure numbers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ
The grip is the problem. Norquist being a lobbyist will embarrass them if they don't vote his way then they get the highway. Looks like the pledge is used by Norquist for BLACKMAIL.
Nobody was forced to sign Norquist's pledge. I'm sure Norquist believes what he does is in the best interest of the 99%.
ABSOLUTLY- he killed the "gang of 12" super committee
How can any American voter vote for anyone who put a pledge to this maniac ahead of his pledge to America? Don't vote EVEYBODY out
just look at
[federal]
http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/files/files/070711-federalpledgesigners.pdf
[state] http://fredericacade.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/list-of-your-states-signers-signed-to-grover-norquist-controversial-americans-for-tax-reform-pledge/ If your senator or congressman kissed grover's ass - VOTE HIM OUT
Actually this concept - voting AGAINST grover
may be FULLY in line with
OWS / GA not endorsing a candidate
I can't find a single person that deserves my respect to lead this country. Pledge crap like a boy scouts club of the elite. Simply stupid my pledge or my job. They had better start worring about what's right and what's wrong.
I share your anger - but consider Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown, Bernie Sanders
Yes, Mr. Norquist is the crossroads for every powerful interest group who desires the maintenance of tax breaks or who vehemently opposes tax increases of any kind.
I do not think, however, that he is enough of a "personification" of his group that protests against him will be effective.
It would be much more effective to hack him and his organization in order to discover who actually pays for "Americans for Tax Reform."
Occupying his office just won't come off well because this guy looks like and engineer with out the pen protector.
You have to find something sinister, get it reported in the press, and then milk out other sinister items you have found.....one at a time.
The more you find and the more gradual you are able to keep the narrative on Mr. Norquist and his masters, the more terrible his organization will be shown to be and the more quickly will Congressmen distance themselves from him.
If I was a lobbyist I would be very worried about my job right now.
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We simply cannot separate out parts of the 99% just because we don't like them. Otherwise we can't say we speak for the 99%! Like it or not, the NRA and the Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence, have millions of members. We should not pick one over the other as it dilutes our real power against he 1%!! Let's focus on the important stuff first!
The post is not about the NRA and the Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence. Grover Norquist is also a lobbyist and controlls our senators and representatives. Read the article, all facts. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/21/grover-norquist-tax-lobbyist-supercommittee-gop
So maybe OWS can be the Norquist of the left by pressuring 2012 candidates to pledge to repeal the Bush Cuts (at least above a certain bracket)?
We leave to much of our business in the hands of the media. They have the access to ask the candidates the important questions. Maybe the citizens need to bug the heck out of the news reportors.
We can provide a better quality media already.
I like how the true partisanship of the OWS members come out. Attack the GOP but not the liberals who have worked hand in hand with the GOP to put the American citizen into slavery. Morons.
Maybe that's because the GOP are more vehemently and more fervently outspoken in their stance towards the corporate elite. The liberals operate on a much more quieter level and actually play to the whims of the underprivileged. This does make the conventional liberals maybe even more dangerous than the Republicans. The liberals play a great role for the business community, in that they keep the rabble in line. It all was working well for the business community, until Obama came to town. And he only made one mistake.
His mistake? Talking about highly progressive issues that were likely to have businesses cringe, only to raise the hopes for progressive individuals. And now we have these protests? Why? Because Obama fell through on his earlier progressive promises. Obama talked the progressive talk, and was then bought out by corporate interests, and failed the progressive walk. After all, one of his earliest corporate counterparts was none other than Lawrence Summers. And I doubt you pick him by "mistake."
I agree what the Dems do is more dangerous because it is done by deception. At least you know where the GOP is coming from. The Dems are coming from the same position they just lie about it, and tell us they are working in our interest, when they definitely are not. Is it any wonder Obama kept the same Goldman Sachs people around that Bushie had? None of them should be trusted.
We are not attacking the GOP - just the lemmings who obey grover.
Is Scalia GOP?
Is Thomas?
Is Roberts?
Is Rush?
Is Orielly?
Being a GOP doesn't make them greedy, lying asses, they do
The point is that the other side is full of the same corrupt individuals. Do you really think the Dems are unhappy about the citizens united ruling? Do you really think Obama is unhappy about it? Of course not, it means more money for both parties. Try to open your eyes and stop attacking one party and ignoring the other because you have been conned into thinking they represent your best interest. Both parties are just one group who enslaves the people. Norquist is a horrible person. But so are leftists leaders. They are no different. The entire super committee was a con run against the citizens by both parties, and only done for political gamesmanship in the upcoming election. T H E Y O N L Y C A R E A B O U T B E I N G R E E L E C T E D.
"But so are leftists leaders. They are no different." Is that why Udall & Durban & 4 other non-gop non-grovers created the senate bill to eradicate citizens united?
Yes - I know reelection is a top priority for all -
but many are Americans First -
For example -
the restore Glass Steagal bill ( at my last count ) has 48 d and 4 r.
Pardon my math but 4 does not equal 48 -
there is a difference scalia is not Sotomayor
They are only doing it because they know it won't pass, and need to pander to leftist voters. There is the problem right there. You believe that because they say something, they actually mean it. Too many people in America are completely blinded by the elected officials. You are a grown man you should know this. THEY LIE. All the time. None of them are for America. They are for themselves and party 100% of the time. Even freshmen are quickly corrupted , or threatened to go along. Proof of this can be seen in what they say on the news when asked about various issues like the debt commission, or what really happens in closed meetings. Its all bullshit from both parties.
You can hit us with sticks, you can hit us with gas, that may hurt like hell but we are going to get our country well
How are you going to do that marching and protesting on Wall Street? What are you going to do when the freezing weather comes and knocks out most of the protests in northern cities completely?
We do more than protest. We mustn't fail.
Well, that remains to be seen. If it is anything like Argentina, then watch out when a business tries to lay people off. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened were these protests occurring before the collapse of Pontiac and the handling of the auto industry.
artic weather clothing. let it freeze and mother nature will give us 6 feet of snow to build our nice comfy homes out of. tents will be obsolete.
I have done a lot of winter camping. I have stayed remarkably warm in -30F. And froze terribly in 20F temps. I have the proper clothing. Many factors go into staying warm. I suggest going to REI or something and learn about how to get along outside in the cold. It's not for sissy's.
good point!
surviving the cold weather would be a great article to post for all of ows to read in the news section
Ha igloos for protesters. yeh i see that happening. You still didn't answer the question what protesting and marching is going to achieve. OWS on its best day has 100,000 people across the nation participating. That is less than .01% of the population. Not a very big movement.
Yes, but OWS is not supposed to include everyone. It can't. It can only include those who can participate. There are far more who would like to participate, but can't due to work schedules and so forth. There are also those who fail to participate for fear that they feel it would never work, yet do share some of the same concerns. Whether it works or not is irrelevant. It's what might come out of it that we should be focused on.
So wouldn't a better movement be a direct action plan that only required people's signatures?
Have you ever seen a baby walk without first learning to crawl? The hour is near give us a year and then you'll really be in fear.
I have nothing to fear from OWS. They aren't going to achieve anything, and even if they do, it isn't the marxist dream that the radicals want. I just want an end to corruption in Washington and to take away the rights from the feds and give it back to the states. That might happen, but OWS won't be the ones achieving that. OWS is already losing sane educated people who are not radical idealists. They can't continue to stay viable with no plan and no goals.
Who We Are
Posted 5 months ago on June 14, 2011, 12:20 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
On July 13, 2011, "Culture Jammers HQ" at Adbusters issued a call to action: Occupy Wall Street! The goal stated is to gather 20,000 people to Wall Street, in New York, NY on September 17, 2011, beginning a popular occupation of that space for two months and more. Inspired by the popular assemblies of Egypt, Spain, Oaxaca and worldwide, those gathered will work to find a common voice in one clear, unified demand.
This is why we've created OccupyWallSt.org. Technology has made it easier than ever before for the people to stay in close contact and assist one another in acheiving a collective goal. Our aim is to make these tools available so our users--the true organizers of this event--can make an occuptation of Wall St. successful. We may not be able to teach a person to fish, or do it on their behalf, but we can build a damn good fishing pole.
But it isn't enough to simply make these tools freely available, they must also belong to the people. So we've taken the time to release our work as an open source project. This way others may use and build upon our work freely without any dependence on our leadership.
The sovereign people of any nation have the power, the right, and the duty, of guiding the destiny of their nation. Most just do not realize this. An organizer brings the process of realization.
Why occupy Wall Street? Because it belongs to us! Because we can!
You can also jump off a cliff like lemmings because you can, but that won't change things either. So far trading goes on every single day since you have been there. There is no one bill in Congress supporting changing anything that you want. There are no candidates running that are really going to do anything that you want. So i ask you again. Other than wandering the streets screaming at the top of your lungs, inciting police violence against you, what are you achieving?
Yeah, but there are a lot of things going on beneath the fray that you probably don't even know are occurring, things that may have potential impacts many years down the road. Whether or not such things will have been made even more possible thanks to OWS may be debatable, but at least the opportunity is there right now for us to get involved if the corporate powers that be try to limit our opportunities. And, yes, history has shown that this kind of protest can change a whole lot. But to understand that history, you're going to have to look elsewhere than Faux Noos. And I am not talking about the 60's, and not even in the US, though the incident at Republic Windows and Doors in Chicago is a place to start. It's not connected to OWS, but I think something like that is now going to be far more of a threat than it had been before.
Dont watch fox news, i read papers from all over the world for my news. And OWS is a play off of the Tea Party. Unfortunately like the Tea Party, it has been taken over by ideologues who want something special for only some of the people. Any change that is going to happen, to get wide support, is going to have to be something that benefits everyone the same. Otherwise the country is too divided. Ending corruption should be the only goal of OWS and the Tea Party (non-gop sane people) will join that fight.
solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity solidarity
OSW is a transformative movement of solidarity that protest for social justice. Our rights to free speech and our rights to a peaceful assembly will never be taken away.
Doesn't have to be. You can say whatever you want. Just going to be a long time, if you aren't actually going to do anything about it. Kind of like a constant meeting to discuss an action plan that never gets enacted.
How would you get all of the Americans to stand up against the corruption in Washington?
Draft legislation to go on the ballots in all 50 states for the next election, including collecting signatures, that sets forth completely new election reforms, and laws strictly limiting elected officials to the laws they place on citizens. i.e. eliminating all of their special rules and laws that benefit them. You would have the backing of at least 75% of the population, and i bet you would see record voting turnout also. Make them Constitutional Amendments. Do you really think elected officials would fail to ratify Amendments passed by a large majority of the population that is restricting their behavior? That would be the start of wholesale violence and dragging politicians out into the streets. Thats how you get the plan done.