Forum Post: OWS demands: Lets bypass DC and get money out of the political process via Constitutional Convention
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 15, 2011, 2:45 p.m. EST by samfb101
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Okay, here's the deal -- we can't get congress to work for us with all the moneyed interests on the other side, making sure progress is impossible.
So we need to BYPASS congress. The framers made this possible through an alternative method of changing the constitution -- a Constitutional Convention! I propose the OWS movement makes this a larger theme. Have the statehouses send requests to congress for a convention, and they can't deny us! The moneyed interests have far less influence at the state-level.
From wikipedia:
A Convention to propose amendments to the United States Constitution, also called an Article V Convention, or Amendments Convention, is one of two alternative procedures for proposing amendments to the United States Constitution described in Article Five of the Constitution. The other method is a vote by two-thirds of each house of Congress.
According to Article V, Congress must call for an amendment-proposing convention, “on the application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States”, and therefore 34 state legislatures would have to submit applications. Once an Article V convention has proposed amendments, then each of those amendments would have to be ratified by three-fourths of the states (i.e. 38 states) in order to become part of the Constitution.
Congress has the power to choose between two methods of ratification: ratification by the state legislatures, or instead ratification by state conventions called for that purpose. In contrast to those separate state ratification conventions, a convention to propose amendments to the United States Constitution would be a single federal convention.
For some good ideas, look at Larry Sabato's book "A More Perfect Constitution". Although I think a constitutional amendment is probably the only way to fix the corruption that permeates our political and financial institutions, a Constitutional Convention also has big risks. Count on the 1% doing their best to use their media, money and power to try and hijack any convention to serve their own purposes. It will take a lot of effort to maintain control.
Here are a few ideas for what a Constitutional Convention could do:
Apportionment for Congressional districts and for state legislatures must be done by computer using only data on population and natural boundaries. The resulting districts should be reviewed and approved by a panel of 15 randomly selected voters in a state, just like a jury, and only on the basis of whether the boundaries are geographically practical. Congressmen have no right to choose their voters.
Political corruption and financial crimes should carry penalties commensurate with the harm they cause. Raj Rajaratnam should never see the sun again for the way his crimes undermine people’s faith in our economic institutions -- instead of the 11 years (minus most of that time thanks to parole and expensive lawyers paid for with his spoils) in Club Fed he received, which was already less than half of what the prosecutor wanted. Would anybody in the 99% get the same gentle treatment? The same with crimes of political corruption committed by people like Jack Abramoff and Duke Cunningham. In my eyes only treason is a higher crime than public corruption because it undermines people’s trust in their political institutions. Any lobbyist or politician that violates the public trust should expect to receive the kind of sentences we regularly mete out to drug dealers, to be barred from ever serving in elected office again, and from lobbying Congress or the Administration. These cases are hard enough to prove, so when they are these crimes should be punished severely, lest we become (more) like Putin’s Russia.
Corporations are not individuals. This is not in the Constitution, it is a creation of a corrupt court system captured by business interests and the people have every right to strike it down. If it takes a constitutional amendment to get rid of this farcical conceit, so be it.
Because corporations are not individuals, they do not have unadulterated rights to free speech and unlimited campaign spending. Corporations are precluded from contributing money or other resources to political campaigns or political parties.
All advertising (political and non-political) must reveal the source of the funding, and the sources in turn must reveal their members (no hiding behind shell groups like "Americans for Taxpayer Reform"). Corporations, unions and all interest groups must disclose the recipients of all the resources (not just money) that they expend on advertising, the purpose of their contributions in relation to their fiduciary responsibilities to the organization, and how the funds are used. Further, unions and "non-profits" of all stripes should be required to submit plans for campaign contributions, lobbying expenditures and political messaging to a vote of their shareholders/members, and be precluded from any substantial aberration from those plans without approval. All of these plans should be available to any member of the public via the Internet or via the mail on request. The right to free speech should allow individuals to remain anonymous, for instance in a book, pamphlet or news editorial, but not if they are speaking through for-profit corporations, unions and non-profit organizaitons.
Get rid of the Senate filibuster, period. It is not a matter of the constitution, it is a creation of our corrupt two-party system and it should go. For good or bad, the majority should be able to implement its program in the Senate, and debate should be limited by majoirty vote.
patient23 wrote: a Constitutional Convention also has big risks. Count on the 1% doing their best to use their media, money and power to try and hijack any convention to serve their own purposes. It will take a lot of effort to maintain control.END----
Yes, I agree, and that in itself is a corruption of something that seriously needs correcting. Such positions from media are intolerable and against the constitution ultimately. Not only do I agree, I've developed strategy that nullifies the opposition, but Americans must embrace natural law in the form of completeing the constitution in order to enable proper amendment. Free speech is abridged and communications vital for survival cannot be made or understood. Accordingly, something very different is needed.---
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
patient23 wrote: a Constitutional Convention also has big risks. Count on the 1% doing their best to use their media, money and power to try and hijack any convention to serve their own purposes. It will take a lot of effort to maintain control. The public must have access of some kind to national broadcast television to defend the constitution. Media will not share truth and democracy cannot be conducted without it.END-----
Which is why I feel we need to recover the methods we must use to share information vital to survival. Free speech is not enough. The public must know and support that speech which is vital. So we do that first in order to properly control an article V convention.------
Here is an ancient understanding that was cut up and put into the Declaration of Independence, and the 1st amendment, the "Greater Meaning of Free Speech".
http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.htm
For some good ideas, look at Larry Sabato's book "A More Perfect Constitution". Although I think a constitutional amendment is probably the only way to fix the corruption that permeates our political and financial institutions, a Constitutional Convention also has big risks. Count on the 1% doing their best to use their media, money and power to try and hijack any convention to serve their own purposes. It will take a lot of effort to maintain control.
Here are a few ideas for what a Constitutional Convention could do:
Apportionment for Congressional districts and for state legislatures must be done by computer using only data on population and natural boundaries. The resulting districts should be reviewed and approved by a panel of 15 randomly selected voters in a state, just like a jury, and only on the basis of whether the boundaries are geographically practical. Congressmen have no right to choose their voters.
Political corruption and financial crimes should carry penalties commensurate with the harm they cause. Raj Rajaratnam should never see the sun again for the way his crimes undermine people’s faith in our economic institutions -- instead of the 11 years (minus most of that time thanks to parole and expensive lawyers paid for with his spoils) in Club Fed he received, which was already less than half of what the prosecutor wanted. Would anybody in the 99% get the same gentle treatment? The same with crimes of political corruption committed by people like Jack Abramoff and Duke Cunningham. In my eyes only treason is a higher crime than public corruption because it undermines people’s trust in their political institutions. Any lobbyist or politician that violates the public trust should expect to receive the kind of sentences we regularly mete out to drug dealers, to be barred from ever serving in elected office again, and from lobbying Congress or the Administration. These cases are hard enough to prove, so when they are these crimes should be punished severely, lest we become (more) like Putin’s Russia.
Corporations are not individuals. This is not in the Constitution, it is a creation of a corrupt court system captured by business interests and the people have every right to strike it down. If it takes a constitutional amendment to get rid of this farcical conceit, so be it.
Because corporations are not individuals, they do not have unadulterated rights to free speech and unlimited campaign spending. Corporations are precluded from contributing money or other resources to political campaigns or political parties.
All advertising (political and non-political) must reveal the source of the funding, and the sources in turn must reveal their members (no hiding behind shell groups like "Americans for Taxpayer Reform"). Corporations, unions and all interest groups must disclose the recipients of all the resources (not just money) that they expend on advertising, the purpose of their contributions in relation to their fiduciary responsibilities to the organization, and how the funds are used. Further, unions and "non-profits" of all stripes should be required to submit plans for campaign contributions, lobbying expenditures and political messaging to a vote of their shareholders/members, and be precluded from any substantial aberration from those plans without approval. All of these plans should be available to any member of the public via the Internet or via the mail on request. The right to free speech should allow individuals to remain anonymous, for instance in a book, pamphlet or news editorial, but not if they are speaking through for-profit corporations, unions and non-profit organizaitons.
Get rid of the Senate filibuster, period. It is not a matter of the constitution, it is a creation of our corrupt two-party system and it should go. For good or bad, the majority should be able to implement its program in the Senate, and debate should be limited by majoirty vote.
What we want is to exercise our ultimate right as Americans--to alter/abolish the status quo. The convention clause of Article V is how we are meant to do just that. We need OccupyTogether to list cities who advocate for a convention, and then to grow that list.
For reference. The public record shows the states have already filed enough applications to cause an Article V Convention. In all 49 states have submitted over 700 applications for a convention call. See www.foavc.org to read the applications. Congress has criminally refused to call the convention and is violation of their oaths of office. The government has admitted all this. It is public record after all but it is not known to the general public. Your movement has a great opportunity here to make these facts known and to bring the public and political pressure on Congress to cause a convention call to happen. I urge you to make these facts known by any means at your disposal (so long as it is peaceful of course) so that the general public knows what Congress has and is doing. Literally the course of American history is in your hands.
I am not an American citizen, but that does seem to be a good way for you folks to get things done and avoid recuperation and artificial division by party ideology.
Good luck with it!
This may be the only way. And, because the call for a Constitutional Convention from the states does NOT need to be for a united purpose, we could actually cooperate with other groups, including, of all things, the Tea Party, to get the required number of states calling for it. Everyone would then pursue their own agendas at the convention, and there will certainly be enough popular support for our cause(s) to get something done, and other groups would go their own way to find support for their cause(s) if they can. It's a viable idea and it will probably be necessary, since our Congress and Supreme Court are so involved with and dependent upon the top 1%-ers that they can't be counted on to forward real reforms for us through conventional means...
Article V of the US Constitution provides a way to propose amendments that Congress doesn't want through the calling of a convention. Congress has refused to call a convention, but the people still have the right to convene. There is a people's convention on the Internet at www.conventionusa.org. All American voters are welcome to register as delegates. It's free.
Yep, that is the way to see demands are satisfied, to use the constitution to protect itself. The nation that can amend its constitution can enforce the constitution. In order to unify the states, FILLED WITH human beings, fundamental needs for civil society must be upheld. Free speech is abridged by power, it cannot have its needed meanings for survival. For that reason, I can logically show that the First Amendment must be revised by those human human beings of the several states in ratification of such a proposal. The "Greater Meaning of Free Speech" is an ancient doctrine of philosophy that was cut up to have part of it placed in the Declaration of Independence. Integrating it in the first amendment will complete the constitution.------ http://algoxy.com/poly/meaning_of_free_speech.html
Won't work, Sorry to inform all of you but all 50 States are totally dominated by the two wings of the $$ party. Go ahead and try to get them to petition Congress for a Constitutional Convention, after the laughing stops they'll just make a few speeches about how things are fine and America ( their America anyway is the best country on Earth etc. blah blah blah.
Essentially then, you are positioning yourself against Americans trying to use the constitution to protect itself, correct. And using cognitive distortions to do it. http://algoxy.com/poly/nwo_cognitive_distortions.html
Wrong! All I'm trying to say is that sugar plum fairy ideas of changing anything with a Constitutional Convention will go nowhere and are IMO unworkable. I just hate to see this movement blow all its forward momentum on such dead-ends.
Hmmmm your use of cognitive distortions is very advanced and socially tuned. You must have gotten an A in academy. http://algoxy.com/poly/nwo_cognitive_distortions.html You need to cite another method of attaining the authority to solve the problems, or you are NOT trying to solve them. Show how you support the constitution.
Whatever.
No, that will not do. Nothing less than suport and defense of the constitution will suffice.--
We need an article V convention. The citizens must use their prime constitutional right and change the status quo democratically.
Go ahead then and see how far you get with that idea pal. What's to stop the right and the Corps. from using their considerable resources to have their own Convention? IMO its opening Pandora's box politically.
That would be the same convention as ours, there is only one Article V after all, and the corps probably will not be able to get their delegates elected in this environment. -----
Your attempt to fearfully label it with minimizations and "all-or-nothing-thinking" won't fly. Cognitive distortions are well understood here.
FU and your psychobabble . Cognitive nothing. The whole idea of a Constitutional Convention in 2011 is nonsense so stow it already. Nobody here except u is even considering it. Why? Because they know its not going to happen.
Hmmm, you seem to count on the nwo, global elite dumbing down that created such ignorance. You would assert that standing on wall street complaining is going to succeed, or you don't care. The protestors have real needs that will drive their awareness. If you havn't cognited that, then, your predictions are not of value to humanity.
There are two ways to fundamentally change the system: Congress, or Constitutional Convention. Considering congress IS the system, we have to sidestep them! The only way forward remaining is Constitutional Convention!
Correct the states with 3/4 of them in agreement, can ratify without congress.
Yes! It's the only way change is going to happen.
The credt system is at the center of it all, that must be a main target.
Later, after constitutional government is established, it will be dealth with. Now, we need a lawful, constitutional government before chaos prevents unity.
Yes, and the federal reserve. The entire system needs purification at the root.
Article 5 convention. Use the constitution to defend the constitution.
Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk
Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
Article V conference, Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-other attendee video comments http://vimeo.com/31464745
With the right momentum, it could be a solution to repairing the credit system this country is based on.