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Forum Post: OWS and Racial Inequality

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 10:32 p.m. EST by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

It has been pointed out by a variety of news organizations how "White" our movement is. I would like to propose that we dispel these accusations of racism by taking affirmative action via the following three steps.

1) Take a census of our attendees to determine how many people of color are in our numbers. 2) Divide the protest up into two groups: one which is proportionately representative of the ethnic diversity of this great nation, and another with however many white people are left over. 3) Move the "White" group to a new protest area that we can disown as a separate, racist group if necessary.

This will help the overall perception of the group as a just and fair group, filled with racial diversity.

139 Comments

139 Comments


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[-] 10 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

Mikey, if you're non-white, come on out and add your face. Plenty of food now in Zuccotti Park and fellow vanguardists of all colors are available for you to hang out with and disrupt whatever you can get your little hands on. You're part of the 99 too, yo, and tired, at that.

[-] 4 points by powertothepeople (1264) 13 years ago

best answer

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Best answer? If I'm part of the 99%, how come the rest of the 20% that looks like me isn't in Manhattan?

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

There are a lot of people who aren't represented in manhattan, including people with jobs who don't have dreadlocks (like myself). I, too, am not always happy with the image the protesters give off, but they are doing a great job of getting the world's attention on these overdue issues, and I cannot thank them enough.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Or perhaps those people aren't represented because they aren't welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI

[-] 3 points by mantaseed (36) 13 years ago

I am gald I saw that clip of John Lewis, what took place is disgusting and insulting.

[-] 3 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

Their method of self government is stupid, and the people's mic is stupid. I will go to protest, but not one of these meetings. It will take time for them to get organized.. didn't Atlanta just start? That douche should get off the mic in that video.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Well, I'm glad to see that video pisses you off as much as it does me.

If it pisses you off, think about how a black person must feel watching a bunch of white OWS protesters deny a black civil rights hero his turn to speak, in Georgia no less. I noticed Michael Moore got his turn at The People's Mike.

Keeping that video in mind, then look at the disproportionately large percentage of non-minority protesters in New York, Then note the enormous distaste for even bringing the issue up on this forum, and you'll understand why there are no black people at the rally.

[-] 0 points by logorob (9) from Toronto, ON 13 years ago

Yeah... it's all racist! Everyone is just trying to keep a strong black man from speaking to the people. People like you just perpetuate racial issues in order to further your own agenda. You're demonizing the white people of this movement in order to garner sympathy for black people, which I find disgusting, quite frankly.

These movements are for EVERYONE, and the various forms of corruption that these protests are speaking out against have a negative effect on EVERYONE. If you are unwilling to go to one of these protests because there are too many "white people", then maybe you should look in the mirror the next time you think about racism.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Yah, they are for everyone until a black man wants to speak. Then we find some pigs are "more equal" than others, don't we.

[-] -1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

They are being hypocritical, saying nobody is better than anyone else, but letting this guy with the mic denounce people. I might suspect the guy with the mic is a paid troll.

[-] 1 points by jmcdarcy (158) 13 years ago

Maybe they didn't want him to speak because he's a congressmen and they don't want congressmen to be able to co-opt the process.

[-] 0 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

Yeah, that too. I don't know anything about the guy.

[-] -2 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

Wow. I get your anger now. Missed the link first spins around.

Manipulators or moles, or even just idiots, can screw up almost any process from "consensus" to Robert's Rules of Order. Consensus, depending on how it's played, is fairly easy to control.

Note in the beginning, everyone had hands up. I didn't see the size of the group that did the blocking. Could the blockers really have just been little pissants so dumb they considered their assembly process to be more important than John Lewis's voice? Did they even know who John Lewis is? Or was he blocked by parties there to disrupt and divide?

Did Michael Moore and Naomi Klein and others in NYC pick the right time to speak in the process rather than in the business part of the process? Don't know, wasn't there then.

Mikey, I hope your post is a bitter tongue-in-cheek. The youtube made me fume in disbelief. Be cool. The race card is played a hundred ways to never all the time on every side. And will be in this movement, no doubt.

Most of the people who attend Occupy Atlanta couldn't be that dumb or venal. The majority had hands up first round. I think someone pulled a coup. Time's old story--judge each one on the content of their character.

Just be there, wherever you can be. Stay with the spirit, not the game. Your perceptions may change.

Re Manhattan: Are you kidding? Your ignorance here discredits what you want to say. I live in west Harlem and saw people of color (POC, wanna be PC?) with signs taking the train down to Liberty Square two weeks ago. Give all this a break and join us, all of us, if you're for real.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

It looks like a repeat of the Rally to Restore Sanity... remember the one black guy there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWxCi6lRMLw

Feelin the love

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 13 years ago

Yea, the "Rally to Restore Conformity" has jackshit to do with OWS, though.

[-] 0 points by FuManchu (619) 13 years ago

Ignore the party pooper. Some just want to find racial issues in everything.

[-] -1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

And be the only black man in Manhattan?

[-] 2 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

whoever you are, you just blew it--adios, no mas mierda

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

There is an occupy rally in Oakland, Berkeley, and SF. 3 protests within 10 miles, 1 of them practically within walking distance.

[-] 5 points by FuManchu (619) 13 years ago

They are trying to create a race issue. Anyone can go to the OWS.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Create nothing. Look at the pictures. You have a race issue. Why don't you address it instead of attacking the messenger.

[-] 1 points by FuManchu (619) 13 years ago

You tell me why it is so. Did they prevent anyone from going there? Why is it predominantly white?

[-] 3 points by patriot4change (818) 13 years ago

With 'people of color' disproportionately Unemployed at 16-20% in this Country... and with 'people of color' disproportionately Incarcerated at 50-60% of the prison population in this Country... I understand your anger. Personally, as a 'white guy', I would like to see more 'people of color' voice THEIR frustration with the System... on Wall Street and EVERYWHERE.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

The problem, from my perception, is that we elected a black man to office who hasn't done anything to help our lot in life, and in many ways,has made it worse.

Now a nearly all white OWS , by design or by accident, though I'm not a big believer in accidents, is doing their best to direct our anger at people who don't report to us (Wall St.), rather than the people who do (Washington). We are getting sold out all over again.

[-] 2 points by patriot4change (818) 13 years ago

Fortunately, there is a parallel movement in Washington D.C. I like the idea of two parallel joint movements which march on BOTH Wall Street and Washington D.C. I think the 'idea' here... is to find a group and a movement that suits your Cause. Not all movements are going to be representative of the national demographic. Just look at the Tea Party movement. So, just find one that suits you.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

The tea party doesn't bill themselves as "The 99%' , though to be fair, I saw more black people at the Tea parties than I do at OWS/

[-] 1 points by patriot4change (818) 13 years ago

Not to change the subject... but do you remember when the Black Panthers were part of the 1960's anti-Vietnam movement? Their statement was, "If a black man has no Civil Rights in this country, then why is he being sent off to war, to die, for a country that does not even acknowledge him as an equal citizen?" I found those comments to be strikingly accurate. And I think this argument was instrumental in bringing an end to the FALSE-war in Vietnam.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

As I recall, the civil rights protest was a protest in front of people who actually give a shit about protests, democratically elected officials.

[-] 2 points by patriot4change (818) 13 years ago

And THAT is where your voice would be heard... my point exactly.

[-] 2 points by cheeseus (109) 13 years ago

This is a joke, right? Segregation based on color? Oppressing people because of skin color(in this case lighter skin)?

I guess it makes sense considering the way you are attacking a 1% minority(the wealthy). The way OWS selectively bypassed the masions of the liberal 1% and targeted the conservative 1%. Is jealousy really justification to discriminate? Is it fair that we will never be part of the 1% of humans who become supermodels, NBA players, rap stars or movie producers? Is it fair that we will never be the 1% of great minds like Einstein or Tesla? Sorry, but humans are individuals. I like the randomness of diversity.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Yeah, because those corporate board rooms are just jam packed with people of color, and its all because they are geniuses and us black folk are just too stoopid.

[-] 1 points by cheeseus (109) 13 years ago

Oh, I forgot, we have no rich black people in America. No corporations with black leaders. Right?

I'm sorry that you feel skin color has anything to do with intelligence. And if you don't like a corporation because you hate white people then don't give them your money. Discriminate against them and do business with another. You do know sometimes a boardroom is mostly white because the community they live in is mostly white. It's demographics. Other time it's because lighter skinned people find it difficult to become a rapper so they go to college instead. Yes, sometimes corporate insiders just plain hate people with darker skin. With political correctness it's become rare as the corporation fears consumers boycotting their product. Except for the black corporations that can outright discriminate without a peep. Hmm, maybe I should boycott Russell Simmons racism?

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Spoken like one of the 1%. Nice defense of corporate board rooms.

[-] 1 points by cheeseus (109) 13 years ago

Good luck with your Marxism and hatred of people simply because they are lighter skinned or have more wealth. Evolution will cull out bigots like you....

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

So evolution will cull out the minorities and cleanse the white race?

[-] 2 points by amanoftheland (452) from Boston, MA 13 years ago

Maybe because the colored folks of this country know if they come out they would be the frist ones to get a billy club to the face AND they know its about time the white guys(and gals) took one for the TEAM for a change in this country. Signed: The white Italian / Irish 3rd generation American guy from Boston. Good People of America don't give in to the race card this time, just find another more productive thread to comment on.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

"Colored Folk"? Really? Ignore the black guy. Ignore the race issues.

[-] 1 points by amanoftheland (452) from Boston, MA 13 years ago

ya colored folk, black, brown,red and yellow. this is the only issue "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild(1744-1812) the American people of every color or lack of color has been being ripped off since 1789.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

They haven't called us "Colored" folk since the days we had to sit at the back of the bus. Amazing. A friend told me a joke the other day which, after reading the responses to this thread, I'm beginning to think has some truth to it.

Q) What do you call a black man at an OWS protest? A) Officer.

[-] 1 points by amanoftheland (452) from Boston, MA 13 years ago

Also you should check out live stream a guy named Dwayne, he is black and does an excellent job covering the scene at Liberty square. Well spoken and thorough. I really like watching his reports.

[-] 1 points by amanoftheland (452) from Boston, MA 13 years ago

Sorry if i offended you, I guessed I should have used the present day "accepted' term, People of color. but you know what, I like the term "colored folk" to me its sounds more friendly, more like something you'd hear in a friendly conversation or chit chat. But since you got me going on this, I have a personal question maybe you could answer for me. Why do Black people let themselves be referred to as " African Americans" rather than something more American like " Americans of African Decent"? you know because in America , American should come first.

[-] 1 points by amanoftheland (452) from Boston, MA 13 years ago

the real enemy: "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild(1744-1812)

[-] 2 points by Rmarks1701 (103) 13 years ago

OK I am going to say this again.

Affirmative action = racism

for example:

  1. "Move the "White" group to a new protest area...." = Segragation and produces inequality.

  2. "Move the "White" group to a new protest area that we can disown as a separate, racist group if necessary" Not only segregation, but also scapegoating. just like Hitler did with the Jews.

I agree that more ethnic minorities should be invited to join the cause, point out to them that they are part of the 99% and stand to gain by this as well. this protest should have no color bias to it. All should be (and are) welcome no matter what race, color, creed or religion they stand for.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

So now creating equal opportunities for people of color(Affirmative Action) is racist? Perhaps more black people haven't joined the movement because of attitudes like that, and scenes like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI

[-] 1 points by Rmarks1701 (103) 13 years ago

Creating an opportunity for people of colour is not racist. creating an opportunity for person of colour to the exclusion of someone of another colour is. Affirmative action started out as a great ideal, but has since been used to deny the majority of people an equal chance to get ahead. I have seen plenty of example of several candidates going up for a job, people of several races. But because of "affirmative action" the minority individual is more likely to get the job than the one who is in the majority, despite the fact that the one from the majority has more experience, and better qualifications.

As something else to think about, in the UK there is a commission for racial equality that advises the government on racial issues. It consists of people who are African, Indian, Pakistani. Asian, and Hispanic, But there is not one white person on there.

Oddly enough, in the name of "affirmative action" the St. Georges flag has been labeled "racist", companies that do not give preference (not an equal chance) to minorities are labeled "racist" and may be taken to court. Blackboards are considered "racist" (they now have to be called chalk boards), and even the song Baa Baa Black Sheep has been banned for being "racist".

This is what affirmative action is in my eyes. This is what I have seen and experienced.

[-] -2 points by mantaseed (36) 13 years ago

More proof that OWS has been infiltrated, and is being undermined.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Ooooo.. The black scare. Don't let them infiltrate.

[-] 1 points by mantaseed (36) 13 years ago

I was refering to rmarks comments so take it easy.

[-] 1 points by Nicolas (258) from Québec, QC 13 years ago

The accusations are silly and blatant attempts at delegitimization. They can't actually say #OWS has racist demands, so they try to imply it by sly remarks.

Even if the movement was composed of a majority of whites, it would in no way imply that the movement is racist. In fact, the movement fundamentally opposes oppressive concentrations of wealth and, in ways not yet settled, wants a society were everyone has a better, and equal, chance of making a good life for himself. That is fundamentally conductive to a society with less racial stratification.

Requirements that the movement take active stances on every single social issue are a distraction and a divisive tactic. Anyone who says " You know, all the talk about better regulation of financial institutions, campaign financing reforms, a fairer economic system and all that, is really just a front for a racist agenda" is simply not talking in good faith.

We should of course, as decent individuals, oppose racism whenever it manifests itself, including during protests. But dancing their dance is a waste of organizational energy for #OWS. We know we are not racist. The possibility that someone is both a racist and supports #OWS' demands does not, in fact, say much of anything about #OWS, whatever some news anchor try to insinuate.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by Nicolas (258) from Québec, QC 13 years ago

I don't know much of anything about the tea party. But racism is a damn good way to find a scapegoat, used over and over again by powers in place in difficult times. If the tea party did become a racist movement, I expect it was because at some point, more or less overtly, someone with interest in the status quo said :

"Listen, the economic hard times aren't our fault! We're like you : white and christian. But look at those other folks! They are not like you, they are not part of our family! Surely, everything is their fault."

Appeal to primitive group identity and clannish animosity to make people forget their real interests.

I agree with you about the video : that was wrong. And any decent person should oppose things like that, in words and in deeds if can be.

But I also know that there are people with some indecent ideas in America that are also suffering from an unfair political and economic system, and they have a right to demand change too. I also believe they are a minority and that any representative democratic system will not put their vile ideas into law.

This is misdirection. A way to hide the fact that, currently, the divide between races is less dire than the divide between the very rich and the rest. I don't even think that, aside from the inertia of the system (which #OWS mostly wants to dimnish), the race or cultural divide is very dire at all, as healthy and growing mixed marriage statistics show.

At the end of the day, yes, "we" have some race issues, because America has some race issues. But there is no way anyone can honestly believe that if tomorrow the government reinstated segregation by law, or any such thing, the #OWS movement would be satisfied and end.

[-] 1 points by doninsalem (74) 13 years ago

Nasty good for nothing, out for themselves lobbyists suck.................Bye,bye, Miss American pie cause they just want to eat the whole thing (hate). Enjoy your shit sandwich.

[-] 1 points by doninsalem (74) 13 years ago

I've seen the wicked fruit of your vine Destroy the man who lacks a strong mind Human pride sings a vengeful song Inspired by the times you've been walked on My stage is shared by many millions Who lift their hands up high because they feel this We are one We are strong The more you hold us down the more we press on (What if?/ Creed/ Human Clay) Lobbyists who are out for themselves really suck

[-] 1 points by Alice (46) from Staten Island, NY 13 years ago

I've been there constantly, and honestly, I've seen plenty of black people.

[-] 1 points by futurenow (6) 13 years ago

MickeyD Your sound like a plant sent here to bait people into saying something objectionable. Perhaps Andrew Brietbart sent you.

[-] 1 points by futurenow (6) 13 years ago

MickeyD Your sound like a plant sent here to bait people into saying something objectionable. Perhaps Andrew Brietbart sent you.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Attack the man, not the issue. Classic. Nothing to see here, move on!

[-] 1 points by WorkingClassAntiHero (352) from Manchester, NH 13 years ago

Try as you might troll, you won't sidetrack this movement. Unlike the teaparty, there are no signs here saying " the plan: White Slavery!"

Troll harder...troll again...

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 13 years ago

Ive read MikeyD"s comment and he is a troll ! End of story. Lets move on .

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 13 years ago

Mikey,did the media really get to you or is this a sick joke/sarcasm?! The media"s job first and foremost is to divide and conquer the masses. The media's job is to promote on going racism and keep it in the news anyway they can. All you have to do is read the papers,watch tv or go to your friendly internet. Its all their for you.

I am a mixed raced woman. Ive been at the protest in DC on and off since last Thurs. Oct 6,2011. THe crowd is diverse..black,white,asian,latino, native american, young and old.

Mikey,We The People are all here. Join US.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

It isnt funny to me.

[-] 0 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 13 years ago

Troll..trolling

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Yah, you'd probably watch some black guy getting lynched by your white brothers and say, "Nothing to see here"

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 13 years ago

divide the people with social issues and conquor them. it works quite well.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Its like something straight out of Saul Alinksy's Rules for Radicals

[-] 1 points by RichardGates (1529) 13 years ago

very clever but this is trying to divide people.

[-] -1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

We didn't ask to be made separate. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock landed on us.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 13 years ago

OK...We get it... You feel isolated,you gotta go back 400 yrs some years. Mikey c'mon back to 2011. You werent born in 1619 and you never experienced it either. Stay in the 21st century.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Sure. Lets all just forget about slavery and the holocaust.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 13 years ago

Get over yourself and Move On! Ciao!!

[-] 1 points by mantaseed (36) 13 years ago

That is the right wing spin machine at work so dont pay much attention, they will try all means to put down the movement.

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 13 years ago

Wanna dispel the "notion"? Just look at some actual photos of the protests.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Thats just it. Most of the photos look very white. At the very least, we need to create some photo ops, or photo shops to improve our appearance.

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 13 years ago

I don't know what photos you're looking at, but the ones I see dispel the notion.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

This sounds like denial. The village voice is running an article about the new "Occupy the hood" protest to garner the support of minorities and make the movement look less white.

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 13 years ago

Occupy the Hood has been there since Day One and that I saw with my own eyes.

Seriously, I am aware your post isn't a real concern (photoshop? mmmkay) but I just wanna add a little reality for the folks at home.

Search a little harder.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 13 years ago

MikeyD is being ironic. Get a sense of humor.

[-] 1 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 13 years ago

MikeyD is either a.) not looking at the right photos or b.) concern trolling to get people to say things that he can twist for his own purposes.

It looks like he might have succeeded at (b.)

There's some irony for you. Have a great evening, only four days til pay day.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 13 years ago

Are you admitting to being a troll?

[-] 3 points by thebeastchasingitstail (1912) 13 years ago

oooo yeah, I'm admitting...

"Are you now or have you ever been a troll!"

"Please don't fry me, Senator McCrotchkey"

[-] 0 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

I think he might be a troll. If he IS a troll, it's a compliment to the movement - the race card is a political punch below the belt.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

You know, the Republicans have been crying about having the "Race card" played against them for many decades. All these complaints about the "Race Card" smack of OWS alignment with the Republican party. Seriously, this may be the first time I've heard of a so-called populist movement crying about the obvious truths about the racial makeup.

[-] 0 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Yes, occupy the hood has been there from day one, and hasn't done anything to bring color to the movement.

[-] 0 points by FuManchu (619) 13 years ago

It is because the cameras that were used changed the colors. They were used in mode 3. If you use mode 5, you can see the true colors.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Interesting. How did the camera lens add the scent of patchuli oil?

[-] 1 points by xamtune (20) 13 years ago

hahaha this is funny, how about you march in racially oppressed neighborhoods and advocate through an interrogation of their needs. most of the lumpenproletariat can not make the connections between their individualized oppressions and those of wall st.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

It has always been my impression that minorities were the most cognizant of their status as the underprivileged. Perhaps the problem lies not in the idea that they are ignorant, but rather in the fact they are unwelcome.

[-] 1 points by xamtune (20) 13 years ago

that is certainly the case (that they are more cognizant than most), I'm just arguing that the abstraction of their oppressions to the level of wall street isn't necessarily being made. We can critique wall street and we can critique ouur individual oppressions but can we draw the line between these. and thats a good question, are they being welcomed???

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

"I'm just arguing that the abstraction of their oppressions to the level of wall street isn't necessarily being made."

  • Not being made because..... ?

"are they being welcomed???"

[-] 1 points by xamtune (20) 13 years ago

not being made because our educational institutions teach us lies, teach us to think in terms of concrete categories and NOT draw connections between peoples lives. distract us with drugs, alcohol, technology (TV, ipod, internet, etc). imprison people for having the ability to think analytically....

[-] 0 points by zz1968 (89) 13 years ago

I agree that OWS is mostly a white movement: not many people in the park are of color nor are the "I am the 99%" pictures. It is also a fact that most of the change is initiated by the middle class not by the lower class, and the middle class is predominantly white. How many non-white people where there in the anti-slavery movement in the 19th century? Not many, I presume. Did that mean that black people supported slavery? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Guess that is a no. OWS stands for equality: access to health care, education and reasonable paying jobs. In this, color is not a factor. In this context we are color blind and don't ask to be cured. It is the ones who see color who come up with black and white statements

[-] 0 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

So you don't support affirmative action and recognition of oppressed minorities? Do you think that slaves were free to protest their slavery? Do you really think white people were the driving force in Martin Luther King's civil rights marches? That sounds a lot like white arrogance to me.

[-] 0 points by zz1968 (89) 13 years ago

I am not sure if you got my sarcasm. I am not white and my girlfriend is neither white nor does she have my skin color. And the birthday of MLK should be a national holiday. My point is that people point at color of skin to distract the attention of the valid points that this movement addresses. Would the same people that complain about this movement being predominantly white make the same remarks about the people supporting the Bush tax cuts? Of course not: the color-of-skin argument is an occasional argument

[-] 1 points by xamtune (20) 13 years ago

the question we should be asking outselves is why does MLK get a holiday (presumably for his non-violence) and malcom X does not??? Why do those that stand firmly behind their beliefs without acting violently yet may be militant not celebrated??

[-] 1 points by zz1968 (89) 13 years ago

HI Xamtune, I am replying here since the reply link on your post below does not show up. You hit some valid point and I think in much we are in agreement. Health care should be about health, not about money. Much of the cost today of health care goes to insurance and lawyers, not to health and that makes it unnecessarily expensive. Since in the US people are not automatically insured, this is an inhibitor. In the two European countries I lived, the co-pay for a doctors visit was $12 and $6. I had no dental insurance: my last visit at the dentist was $90 for checking, cleaning, X-rays and one filling. I remember the X-rays cost $6. And these are private insurances since I was a foreigner. Nationals were insured by birth and never even see a bill. I choose to not take dental insurance since these costs were bearable. Studying should be about education and not about money. I read stories from people who graduate with a study debt that basically equals a mortgage. That is a false start. I graduated in my country with no debt since all was state funded, provided that you pass the exams and graduate in 4 years. I think your last line is where I see an issue: With who would you be sitting at the table with? Apart from a law enforcement perspective, this movement is pretty much ignored since there is no representation. And why would you be sitting at the decision table and not the girl sitting next to me? Not everyone can be sitting at the decision making table. Therefore this movement, in order to accomplish anything, will need an agreed and prioritized set of wishes/demands and leadership otherwise there will be no progress. Kudo's for you for being a teacher: propagating and enlarging knowledge and thinking power is the best way to prepare people for life and for setting them up for a couple of steps higher on the social ladder

[-] 1 points by zz1968 (89) 13 years ago

Probably because Malcolm X beside being a very energetic person also preached racism and some form of Apartheid. Now having answered your question, I think that the question we should be really asking is why people in this movement are so focused on what divides us rather than what unites us. If all what comes out of this is a Website with a forum made by people who disagree with each other than that is a pretty sad result. And certainly not the way to affordable health care, education and reasonable paying jobs.

[-] 1 points by xamtune (20) 13 years ago

debate shouldn't divide. unity is built through disagreement, not anger, contempt, and in-fighting. we are taught everyday to be reactionaries, defensive, angry, and spiteful. I don't want affordable health care, I don't want to have to worry abaout how I am going to pay for a visit to the emergency room, my RXs, Drs visits, etc. I shouldn't have to, everytime I'm asked for an insurance card I cringe. Education as a protest point needs to be communicated better to the 99, my students do not care, they think oh daddy's paying thus it doesn't matter how much it costs because they cant even extend their interests to daddys pocketbook. movements do not always follow the trajectories we plan but take the shape of the events occuring right here right now. we cannot plan the movement, this provides the 1% with the ammunition to undermine it. this is why I do not support a list of concrete demands, I don't want power to give me something, I want a seat at the decision making table

[-] 0 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Are they "The 99%"? Last time I checked, the 99% in this country isn't white. Do you really think Affirmative action, which goes out of it's way to recognize color of skin is racist?

[-] 1 points by FuManchu (619) 13 years ago

Anything that recognizes skin color is racist! Any special treatment because of race is racist whether the treatment is good or bad. Everyone must be treated equal. Asking for special treatment because one belongs to a minority is not right. For example, asking to hire a less qualified person just because hes a minority is not fair to the person hiring. Level playing field and assistance to anyone disadvantaged in any way.

[-] 1 points by xamtune (20) 13 years ago

racism is a structural feature of the capitalist system. it privileges white people, is that somehow not racist because it doesn't directly tie race to the privileges that white people daily experience but cannot recognize because they do not come from an oppressed position? my white students have the most difficult time recognizing their privilege but damn can they tell me that affirmative action is racist... which is funny, because their point is that oh unqualified blacks get positions over qualified whites... really? are you serious?!?!?! thats absurd, are you honestly teling me that slavery has ZERO implications for the present, that Jim Crowe doesn't still exist, that black neighborhoods not being protected by the police is equality????

[-] 1 points by FuManchu (619) 13 years ago

racism is a feature of capitalism? I give up.

[-] 1 points by xamtune (20) 13 years ago

yes, racism is a structural feature of capitalism. that is correct. capitalism is a historical system... begun in the 16th century when Europeans colonized the Americas and committed genocide against the natives through slavery, then when after hte native had labored to their deaths they were replaced by African slaves and huge monocultures (beginning with sugar) rooted in European production methods replaced diverse landscape resulting in huge ecological transformations. the capitalist division of labor during htis period was racialized, it continues to be racialized even though it is in a tranformed way. read your Immanuel Wallestein, Ettiene Balibar, Frantz Fanon, Walter Rodney....

[-] 0 points by zz1968 (89) 13 years ago

No, I am not a racist. Yes, I assume the 99% is mostly white since the majority of the people in this country is white. With about 20% blacks, 10% Asians there will have to be a lot of white in the 99%. I am not sure where you want to head with your statements but by religiously looking for points where you can disagree you are one of the people that will make this movement fail. Focus your energy on what unites us rather than focusing on itty mitty word play stuff

[-] 0 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Perception is reality man. Pictures speak a lot louder than words. When my 20% are excluded from your "99%", why would I care if this movement succeeds or fails? Just another pack of privileged white kids complaining about their lot in life, without a clue as to what hardship really is.

[-] 2 points by RyKi24 (12) 13 years ago

Mikey, you are moronic... Is it reasonable to assume that for every one black person you see in those pictures, there are 5 people of another color? For every 5 black there are 25 of another? For every 10 black, there are 50 of another? For every 20 black, there are 100 of another? There's your 20%, racist.. This whole movement is a joke right now unless ya'll get one unified message of where you are taking the protests, and you're not going to get that through segregating the people of America (just take us right back to the 50's why dontcha?). Otherwise you're just a bunch of jobless, pissed off hippies (in Mikey's case, racist).

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

You call me a racist and have the sack to tell me the missing black people in all the videos and pictures are actually there, I just cant see them? I know I can';t be reading this right. Next you'll be pissing on me and telling me it's raining,

[-] 1 points by RyKi24 (12) 13 years ago

No, I'm just telling you that you are intellectually not capable of understanding percentages. I live in FL, and have seen more white people than black, but I still see black (I normally wouldn't care of what color I see, but since I am trying to prove you're racist...). And I see more hippies than anything, ones that particularly don't have anything relevant to say in regards to a reform other than crappy John Lennon ideals. I watched an interview today of a black woman who runs a supply station for the protests in New York, I've seen videos of black men beating on buckets while white men play guitar, making music TOGETHER. That should be the point of your protests, is coming TOGETHER as ONE and having an IDEA of what the hell ya'll WANT.. Otherwise you are just wasting my valuable TV news time in which I could be learning about who I'm going to vote for next year, how my stocks are doing, and the latest thing that Obama has done to F* up our nation.

[-] 1 points by MiMi1026 (937) from Springfield, VA 13 years ago

You're an old racist white man posing as a black man. Brothers don't call themselves Mikey..no! They refer to themselves as Michael !!

You are a poser trolling. adios

[-] 0 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Now you are going to stereotype me by my name? Whats next, you going to call me "Mr. Jefferson"?

[-] 0 points by logorob (9) from Toronto, ON 13 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is just here to try and agitate white people in the movement and distract and derail from the REAL political and economic issues that NEED to be fixed.

Racial issues are social and get solved through generations of people raising their children properly and instilling proper moral values in them, which include not being discriminatory because of someones skin color and judging them on their character.

Bringing up the racist card all the time is the EXACT type of behavior which perpetuates and exacerbates the racial tensions that exist NATURALLY. People have a need for social connection, and social connection requires you to have characteristics in common with other people. Different races have different cultural values and social norms, so it is natural to initially identify with people who are the same race as you because this gives you a cultural connection. This is simply a natural human social mechanism that is part of life, and people shouldn't be called bigots or racists for acknowledging these things. It's not discriminatory to notice the fact that different races have different cultural backgrounds and social etiquette, nor is it discriminatory to want to embrace your own cultural background. It becomes racist when you assume characteristics based on skin color and discriminate based on these assumptions.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by logorob (9) from Toronto, ON 13 years ago

Why do you guys legitimize their racist claims that these movements are "white"?

Last time I checked, white people deserve the same amount of respect and rights as every other race... why should it matter if most of the movement is white?

White people are still the majority in this country, of course there are going to be a high percentage of them at these sorts of protests.

The reality that not many people will point out from fear of being labeled a bigot (racist, if you ask me) is that most white people in this country have been here for generations. They've seen changes and were raised with Canadian ideals and morality. They were raised to be proud of their Canadian heritage and part of that heritage includes fighting against immorality and protecting Canadian culture. The unfortunate reality is that many immigrants in Canada come here and get caught up with how great the nation is and don't notice the problems that have cropped up over the years. This obviously doesn't apply to all immigrants, but it certainly does have a psychological effect on people when their family moves to Canada from another country that may have been poverty-stricken.

The unfortunate reality is that places like Canada and the US have become complacent and content with their lifestyles and have stopped paying attention to the political and economic systems that are slowly spreading the gap between the 1% and the 99%.

White people may very well be making up the majority of these protesters... but they are certainly not the only ones who are being effected.

I don't think I would be alone in saying that I feel that modern society is currently leaning towards discrimination towards white people... the fact that how "white" this movement is even a topic of discussion is absolutely appalling, and I'm sick of being demonized because of the color of my skin.

[-] 0 points by bogusanger7 (83) 13 years ago

This is nonsense.

Racial division is earlier centuries societies attempts at trying to dominate, control, and limit the rights of individuals (who they conquered) and perpetuated the falsehood of these "nations" as "different" or of less intelligence.. Economics rules this myth! The question is...different from what and why is this still so apparent to this day? What does it matter....no one is getting a fair share anyway around the world, not even from their own kind.

Besides, how many "pure bred" people of only one race truly exists in this country....Not too many unless you are from another planet!

[-] 0 points by smarzie (62) from Portsmouth, OH 13 years ago

This isn't a race issue, it never was. I see plenty of non-white faces in the crowd, anyway.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

I don't and neither does almost anyone else who has only photos and videos of the event to go by.

What we see, is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI

[-] 1 points by smarzie (62) from Portsmouth, OH 13 years ago

I guess I've just been watching a lot more videos and checking out more pictures than you.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

nice anecdotal evidence. Why don't you post a few pictures of token.

[-] 1 points by smarzie (62) from Portsmouth, OH 13 years ago

Isn't this all subjective, anyway? I see what I consider a good amount of different ethnicities, and you don't see enough. Besides all that, segregating an all-inclusive demonstration to show how many of this or that certain ethnicity is there is divisive and counter-productive. We should not make this a race issue. All are welcome, no one is turned away.

[-] 0 points by owstag (508) 13 years ago

Wait - we ought to have a formal name for this. OOh! I've got:

APARTHEID.

You can be the OWS official racial traffic director.

[-] -1 points by riethc (1149) 13 years ago

lol!!!!

[-] -1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

The protestors are the ones with the financial means to be protesters - mostly unemployed college grads. Though supporters come from every race, background, employment status.

[-] -1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 13 years ago

Wait a minute, you said they are mostly college grads with the financial means to be protesters. I thought they were pissed off about student loans. If they have the financial means to protest, then they have the financial means to pay back the money THEY borrowed.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

Perhaps my judgement on the protestors is wrong since it is from weeks ago - maybe it is more universal. But I stand by what I say about supporters. That is everyone.

[-] -2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

So you are saying the protesters are financially well off white kids who have no jobs, but the minorities they protest for have jobs but are not financially well off? That makes no sense at all.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

No, I didn't say they all have jobs, they just can't afford to come out to new york, or don't have the energy to march all day and make signs and chant. I think a lot of the protestors can go home fairly easily.

By the way, I was in one of the occupy demonstrations in berkeley (in front of BofA), and there were actually 4 or 5 black people there out of the 10 or so campers (first day), but they were actually homeless.

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

So now you are saying black people don't have the energy to march and make signs? Or are you trying to imply that all the OWS protesters can afford to live near Manhattan, unlike people of color? Its gone from nonsensical to racially insensitive and insulting.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

No, I'm saying many of the protestors come from families with some money, and have no other place to put their energy.

I don't know why you seem to be mad at me.. Why don't you go to Occupy Oakland? They're playing some film right now I believe.

[-] 2 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Your whole representation of the situation is upsetting. Middle class white kids with rich parents who have nothing better to do with their time than complain about lack of jobs, while us black folk are either too weak to march, to ignorant to make signs, too busy working to spare time, or too dumb to know the difference. If that is really what this movement is about, I want nothing to do with it.

FYI, black unemployment is near 50% here in California. We have nothing but time on our hands.

[-] 1 points by Frankie (733) 13 years ago

Check and mate. lol

Here's the deal. It's real simple... Rampant unemployment and understanding that the rich are screwing you aren't really news flashes for the black community like for middle-class white folks. They've known they were getting the shit-end of the stick forever. Why come out now to hang with a bunch of people they have little social interaction and nothing in common with otherwise?

Beyond that most black folks don't seem to have a whole lot of time for the hippy-dippy shit either.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

You are putting words into my mouth. I'm just pointing out the facts. Yes, it IS mostly white people protesting. And they aren't only protesting for minorities. To me, this movement is about ending corruption in government, because our "representatives" take their money from corporations, and don't represent us.

White people are so racially sensitive that they would rather abandon this movement than insult a black person. Just saying, race is the ultimate trump card these days.

I don't agree with corralling people like sheep either, in regards to your original post. Let the cameras do the talking.

[-] -1 points by thoreau42 (595) 13 years ago

Anytime you can discriminate to claim equality, you pretty much have to.

[-] 0 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

scratching my head here.

[-] 0 points by thoreau42 (595) 13 years ago

If you separate people into groups based on race (discriminating) then it's racist. You can't put people into separate groups based on race and then say it's equal or fair..

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

People separate themselves into groups. What we need is forced integration and equality.

[-] 1 points by thoreau42 (595) 13 years ago

So equality is more important than freedom?

[-] 1 points by MikeyD (581) from Alameda, CA 13 years ago

Black people have yet to experience true freedom. They were freed as slaves 150 years ago, Civil freedoms 50 years ago, and have yet to experience financial freedom.