Forum Post: Organizers should read this.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 9:31 p.m. EST by ghost63
(18)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
To Whom it May Concern,
Most of the World's industrialized/information age population is watching everything that you're doing and that is great. You've forgotten the most important part of a battle plan. This protest has morphed into a battle plan but there is a problem my friends. Please remember that I am very much on your side.
- No Clear Theme or Cause. Although impressive, I feel that the people who started this Occupy protest never realized or prepared for what it would end up becoming. That being said, you need a clear cut cause. Ex., We demand corporate oversight by a citizen's board, which oversees income, contributions, taxes, etc., blah blah blah
- No single mindedness of this cause or purpose. For all you college graduates, think about a paper, thesis, dissertation, etc. and remember, Purpose, body, argument, conclusion. For military people, think battle plan, ie, plan A, B, C,., contingencies, and then, END GAME.
- NO DISTINCT END GAME There is no end game in this protest, dammit. I love what the 99 percenters are doing and admire them for protesting but they have no end game. Do they protest until the pizza runs out? Or they need a shower. Because they will require these things after they have run out and the MEDIA stops showing you, which your enemy is already trying to do, minimizing your media exposure.
I love this. I am so glad that I am seeing the people stand up, finally. I've been waiting a long time. Quite honestly, I was not going to get involved at all, so be gentle to me. I feel that this is going to peter out without the above things mentioned being implemented, and soon. Trust me, you're enemy is planning. So should you.
I thought you would be interested in the electronic petition that has been created on We the People, a new feature on WhiteHouse.gov Warren Buffet himself outlined this petition to stop the corruption in Congress. If this petition gets 5,000 signatures by October 22, 2011, the White House will review it and respond! If a petition gets enough support, the Obama Administration will issue an official response. You can view and sign the petition here: http://wh.gov/gWX
Thanks Daxattack. I stated it below, by mistake, but I've just signed the wh.gov petition. Thanks for the link. At least that's something. Of course, we still have issues here. LOL
You know, guys, the Egyptian student who started the uprising in his country, stated, quite simply, that they had one idea, to end a corrupt regime with torture as its power. I love what was started here but I've noticed one disconcerting thing, after posting my thread. We are so disjointed and personally opinionated that we are arguing amongst ourselves. This is how the BILLIONAIRES WILL not have to worry about this movement. Sorry to be so negative but I know what I see. I'm saddened. I've always said that Americans, not you guys, will not stand up until they've lost all. Unfortunately for the Occupy movement, the MASSES aren't really listening.
I Agree 100 %
Good ideas are lost, you can't even find posts back in the forum, I also have been waiting for something of the sort for a long time.
Someone in another post tried to start a thread asking people to submit what they think should be stated as the OWS claim.
Here is what I think could be a start:
"Because our elected representatives are influenced by corporations and lobby groups which only represent the interests of a minority in our society, we have a dysfunctional democracy. In order to realize the will of the majority and have a just society, the voice of all now needs to be heard. This can be accomplished through direct democracy. We are rejecting the actual process of decision making that is leading to inequalities and demand immediate change so that we, as a society, are aware and decide instead of being represented by biased politicians. We the people are demanding the first real true democracy, one where all voices have meaning and where laws can be passed or voided only when we the people agree to it.
We the people are united and strong."
I love what you just stated. The only problem is that, in this country, the vast billions that control the electorate, reject our voice. That is where we begin. What does someone do if they are part of a population that is rejected, without just cause. A true democracy can only end in war. We MUST have a social democracy. As I've stated once before, somewhere, not here, is that one must clean their own kitchen before they judge how another's kitchen should be cleaned up.
First and foremost, just as this cause demonstrates, we must clean up our own mess, and this is a start, albeit, a semi-disorganized start. I love this movement but it started with the organizers not realizing how big it was going to become. I know what I see and I want to help but I don't know exactly who to help. Thanks though, mate, for incredible input, as I hope we are all providing. God bless all people who wish for fairness.
The comments to this post are very confusing. It is almost as if they didn't read the post. Ghost63, this is an excellent post. I just wish the protestors would consider it. I, too, love the passion and getting out there. I just want so badly for it to get results! All you guys, please decide if you are protesting for the sake of protesting or if you want results and are willing to strategize to get them.
The end game is real, profound change in some fucked up structures of society. Will it manifest in a new party, popular national assemblies to formulate demands of grievance redress to the government, constitutional amendments,or something else isn't known yet.
The only way it could be known with any clarity or certainty after such a short time (cause a month is a short time, media attention span notwithstanding) is if it was coming top-down, if there was a central entity with the authority to set by itself the movement's agenda. #OWS is simply not like that. Bottom-up process may take time, but it is crucially important to #OWS' legitimacy and significance.
There's actually plenty of voices across the board regarding a central demand that will represents the 99% of the people:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-1st-demand-needs-to-be/
See Why We Are Occupying Wall Street at CompleteConfusion.com Long bibliography included.
MUCH needs to be fixed, and a lot of those items are very clear indeed.
I agree. We just need to general strike. Its the only logical next step.
To everyone, I hope that you know who you are up against. These people have killed Kennedy, shored up control of this country, through Reagan, and now are simply ignoring you completely.
I hope that you all know that these people have been rigging our elections, destroyed the World Trade Center, etc., and will only stop what they are doing when you pry it from their cold, dead hands. I am originally from England, where princes/princesses regularly killed their siblings to become King/Queen. I also have the benefit of twenty plus years in special operations for the good ole U.S. of A. I promise you that I know our enemy. They are much better prepared than any of us. They have expected this for some time, guys.
On the one hand, I agree with you.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for this:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2011/10/16/the-contrasting-psychologies-of-occupy-wall-street-and-the-tea-party/
(Page 2 of that article says it better than I can)
Even just a few days ago, I was railing for better organization. Now, after talking to more people, I think I personally am willing to give Occupy a chance to do things their way: painfully slowly but according to their idealistic naivete. It might work.
And, if it doesn't, maybe we can do like another poster here suggested (forget who), and have Occupy raise awareness and motivation, but have other more traditional organizations push demands.
I'm glad you posted that article. Sounds more better just to be in the middle instead of either end maybe. hmmm
Right and left are the problem also. They don't communicate with each other. This country needs a moderate middle ground for people to turn to.
I'm with you hairless. I want this to work. Please believe that. If things are getting organized and I missed it, it's due to the paid off media keeping me from getting to the information easily.
I feel it might be best to attend a rally because there are very good reasons for the points you are making. We who are at the rallies know why the mass media is not there and you should too. That can actually work in this movements favor. People have been spoon fed for way too long my friend. You know who owns the mass media right?
I understand what you're saying but the organizers have to fight the media. Attempt to get your voice heard on CNN, which is the voice of your enemy, etc., because, and you have to remember, I am not the person who you have to convince. I am already researching, finding the information, and on your side. I want all of you, and, yes, I am speaking out (have been for 15 years), to get the the "regular Joe", who is sitting on his couch hearing about the Michael Jackson trial, hear about you more. That is an uphill battle. This is where I am going with this thread. I am on board. I am throwing suggestions for getting more out there to the masses.
We know exactly how to get mass media attention. Not taking that route just yet.
Crap, maybe try other outlets. BBC, not BBCAmerica. Don't forget that Deutsche Welle, and Al Jazeera want to know what you're about. They are already stating, on American television news, that you are unorganized and have no clear goal. I know they are not your friends but the masses listen to them. You have a great thing going here. If you need help with this, email me and I will help.
And more concrete goals, which the masses will quickly understand.
I am 100% with you, Ghost63. This is the same problem I've always had with this protest (can't call it a movement - it isn't cohesive enough for that).
The problem with having no set list of principles or demands is that there is no real way to satisfy the people who are frustrated. Besides which, who is expected to devise a solution? This protest is nothing more than a grand-scale temper tantrum until the protesters figure out what they want and propose a concrete solution. No one - not the Wall Street people you're vilifying, or the government you seem to ignore - is going to do it for you. Why would they? They can't even tell what you're asking for.
I would have so much more respect for OWS if they worked up enthusiasm based on a series of thought-out principles, rather than getting so many people riled up first and THEN hoping that all that energy will somehow result in a non-violent solution. This shows exactly the lack of initiative/thought/willingness to work that I've heard people accuse you of. Why play into it? You don't have to. There are some solid ideas bouncing around. Why not fight with more purpose? You might find there are more people standing behind you than you could ever imagine.
You also have obviously not been to a location of occupation or you'd understand more thoroughly what is going on and wouldn't sit at home waiting for cnn abc or cbs to tell you while sipping your wine. You are seeing such a small fraction of the movement....you have no idea but make comments based upon lack of knowledge anyway. That is so rampant in this country. This movement is not the sound bite we've become accustomed to. There are more people standing behind us than was ever imagined and we're not going to squander that in the way that makes some people more comfortable by getting on a bandwagon that's been on before. This is a revolution. It is not about making it look the way people think it should who are not privy to the story anyway and allow it to become fodder for the masses before its time. Sorry if it sounds a little harsh but my patience begin to run thin with these types of comments. Usually we just ignore this type of gossip.
Sipping wine? No...I work. Then I go home and sleep. Maybe you should try it?
I was actually asking for information. I've read a lot about the protest and have made an effort to get down to the park (no luck yet - 4,5 trains were delayed and there's that whole annoying working-for-a-living thing).
What part of what I said is "gossip"? If any of it is untrue, I'd like to know. And sorry, but you don't get to dictate all of the responses to your "revolution," by controlling who is "privy to the story." (What is the story?) And if you're going to go yell in a park, why should you get to decide when the "revolution" reaches "its time"? If you're being disruptive, "the masses" are going to react. They're not going to wait patiently until you're ready for them.
What the heck did you expect? Surely you read the news, too. Anyone with half a grain of sense or strategy would prepare for "these types of comments" and combat them (and not merely by saying that they're not true and making yourself sound like some sort of protesting elite who knows more than the rest of us).
sorry I said anything. that wasn't nice of me. carry on. i'd say it's because i work seven days a week and am godawful tired but that's no excuse really. again im sorry.
Glad to see you're apologizing. People in these forums want to know and help. Bad attitudes or telling visitors that they don't know what they are talking about is presumptuous, at the least. That can only hurt any cause.
Well, I wasn't being all that gentle either. I've actually been pleasantly surprised by how civil people are on these boards (even when, like you or me, they get exasperated).
I'm sorry, too. Good night and get some sleep!
Warm Fuzzy. At least the 99 are getting along. :)
What Anne Said.
Getting money out of politics would do so much to fix this country its unreal. It seems like this is the one thing that is universally accepted by everyone I talk to in OWS and outside of OWS. This message is not getting out to the media or anyone else that can start to hammer it in to the heads of the elite. I too feel like this is going to fizzle out without more direction and planning.
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
You might want to read these (unrelated to each other) resources:
http://occupywallst.org http://superunion.org
The only end game is to reelect Obama. Thats why Moveon.org took over.
安息帝國，又名“阿薩息斯王朝”或“帕提亞帝國”，是古波斯地區主要的政治及文化勢力。由阿爾沙克一世建立。全盛時期的安息帝國疆域北達今土耳其東南的幼發拉底河，東抵伊朗。安息帝國座落在地中海的羅馬帝國與中國漢朝之間的貿易路線絲綢之路之上，使帝國成為了商貿中心。法爾斯伊什塔克爾的統治者阿爾達希爾一世叛变，在公元224年殺害了安息帝國最後一位統治者阿爾達班五世。阿爾達希爾一世建立了薩珊王朝，不過安息帝國的分支阿薩息斯王朝則仍在亞美尼亞繼續其統治。安息帝國是一個由不同文化組成的國家，她在很大程度上吸納了包括波斯文化、希臘文化及地區文化的藝術、建築、宗教信仰及皇室標記。安息帝國，又名“阿薩息斯王朝”或“帕提亞帝國”，是古波斯地區主要的政治及文化勢力。由阿爾沙克一世建立。全盛時期的安息帝國疆域北達今土耳其東南的幼發拉底河，東抵伊朗。安息帝國座落在地中海的羅馬帝國與中國漢朝之間的貿易路線絲綢之路之上，使帝國成為了商貿中心。法爾斯伊什塔克爾的統治者阿爾達希爾一世叛变，在公元224年殺害了安息帝國最後一位統治者阿爾達班五世。阿爾達希爾一世建立了薩珊王朝，不過安息帝國的分支阿薩息斯王朝則仍在亞美尼亞繼續其統治。安息帝國是一個由不同文化組成的國家，她在很大程度上吸納了包括波斯文化、希臘文化及地區文化的藝術、建築、宗教信仰及皇室標記。
Good points. The Greeks are probably the closest analogy to western civilization as of now. Laziness, Greed, more Greed, and then comes conspiracy.
Guys, as someone who is only watching this, and hoping.. The first reply to my post makes complete sense. But, once again, I am telling you, as someone who has had to hunt for what you are about. And that is a fact. The media is not letting you show what you are about. TELL THE PEOPLE. WHAT IS YOUR SPECIFIC, AND I MEAN SPECIFIC, PURPOSE? Otherwise, just as another post made clear, you're really just a bunch of people hanging out. Don't post so fast. Think on it.