Forum Post: Okay, Lets Really Address This Issue About Obama And The Democrats
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 5, 2011, 6 a.m. EST by GypsyKing
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There are people saying that Obama is one of the 99% and that he has also been victimized by the current system, and there may be truth in this, maybe. Maybe his hands are tied by the control that vested interests hold over the other branches of government. Maybe he would like to be more progressive than the system allows . . . maybe.
But is that an argument that the system doesn't need to be changed? I don't think so!
The obvious answer therefore is that we need to work both within and without the voting booth to change things. It is a false dicotomy to believe that it must be either one or the other, and a false dicotomy that plays into the hands of the oligarchy. We need to cultivate EVERBODY that sees the need for transforing this system into one that meets the needs of the people!
WORK IN THE VOTING BOOTH !
We need to pick an issue that is simple - that is popular - how about an issue that 83% of Americans agree on - that 56% of TP agree on - that will cement the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system. It will be as short and concise as possible, a legally constructed “corporations and other organizations are not a persons and have no personhood rights” and “money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – from jobs, to taxes, to infrastructure , to Medicare – much easier to achieve – by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, using the same tactics, within just 17 months they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Other amendments were ratified even faster: Eight—the 7th, 12th, 13th, 15th, 17th, 20th, 21st and 26th—took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)
If they could tie the left and right into success -
WHY CAN'T WE??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.
5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country. All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition. None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans ! Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want. What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state. Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for them. 83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. 76% of the Rs.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions,
Wanna take your family on vacation? Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore. Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create one MAJORITY task.
This has the feeling to me of an effective strategy. We must focus now on concrete goals, and achieve them. I think this is something everyone can rally to, which is exactly what we need right now!
It is about knowledge. OWS needs to develop a clear message on an action plan to change things that most people can agree with.
A clear statement of the Goals of the movement.
A list of Problems to be solved and proposed Solutions.
And a Plan to make the change within the current system that will actually work.
The argument is key. What is in it for the average person.
Most people do not have a problem and do not understand why the people with the problems just don't solve it themselves.
A simple story that makes sense to everyone is needed.
What did this have to do with my post?
I am sorry if I am a little out of synch with your post. I am trying to understand how all this matrial in this forum can be used to really make a positive change for the better.
I think that technology has made it difficult for some people to be self reliant. In the past, a family could hunt and gather and survive.
Today, the rule of law and a lack of natural resources has limited a person's ability to survive on their own.
Society has become very complex and everyone needs money to play the game. The job is key.
I think everyone will agree that to get ahead a person needs to get an education, get a job and be a responsible citizen.
Some people claim they cannot find a job. Then, government needs to ensure that anyone who wants a job will find one.
That should not be a great expense for government and should solve the problem of cannot find work.
I think this is the most important problem to solve.
Money is not going to go away. We must just use it wisely. Destroying the banks will do no one any good.
I'm sorry, I'm afraid I at first mistook you for a troll.That is one thing that these trolls unfortunately accomplish, this production of an "us and them" mentality.
I think that what is needed here is nothing short of a spiritual revolution. We are beyond compromise, bandaid solutions. People understand right from wrong. It's time we aquired the moral fiber to act on that understanding. This is the short version, but it will have to do.
I agree; but do not see a spiritual awakening coming. There are just too many people who are not suffering and do not see what is in this movement for them. I still believe we can use the political system to solve our problems if we use the right strategy.
I am trying to suggest a solution that would solve the President's problem and give OWS a focus to be an agent of change everyone can get behind.
I am afraid that Obama and the other center-right Democrats have done irrepairable damage to the credibility of the Democratic party in their capitulation to house Republicans on deficits and taxes. The likely result may be simply another Republican administration, unless more Americans get behind this movement. If you think the level of anger out there is only towards Republicans at this point you are misreading the situation. This is an inherent danger in a two party system, that the parties are simply too big a tent to hold together a coalition. Somehow we must find a solution to this mess, and that task would confound Solomon at this point. The central necessity, however, is to not allow the left to be divided and defeated.
Problem - political bickering
To many people, American politics seems to be a problem - the parties are more interested in winning than in solving problems.
We need to stop the political bickering. We need to have a serious debate on where America is going in the future.
It is not Washington that is in grid lock. The American people are in grid lock! Politics is the art of compromise, not confrontation.
The American people need to reach consensus on what we want to be and what we want to do.
The principles of both parties are correct. We just need to meld them into a national framework for guiding our collective decisions.
The policies of both parties are flawed. We need to find a common ground which produces the best results.
United we stand, divided we fall is not just a neat slogan, it is fundamental truth.
Capitalism is the best economic system devised so far, but it is an incomplete system. It needs a heart.
Democracy is the best governing system devised so far but it demands that all the people strive to reach a common set of rules and goals so that we can out compete the rest of the world and set the global agenda.
Solution
We see web BLOGS as a solution to the current political process. We need to "raise the level of discourse" in online discussions.
We all need to work together and find a consensus on changes which will really move us forward.
We need to focus on problems/solutions not parties and wedge issues.
We can not believe what has happened in the past four years; never in our life time have we seen such rapid changes in the things which affect the everyday lives of the citizens. We are living in the most interesting of times. What we, the American people, do in the next few years will change the course of history.
Let's work together to make changes for the better; not just changes.
The main tenet of the Republicans is personal responsibility. The main tenet of the Democrats is that we are our brothers keeper. These ideas are not mutually exclusive.
If you have to pick a side you are on the wrong side. The answer is in the middle.
Strategy:
Retain the existing two party system; but use public opinion to force individual candidates to the center by focusing on a problem/solution approach to current high priority issues.
Sorry, now I do think you are a troll.
And I do not think you are trying to solve a problem.
I think you can't get your head out of a box. You assume solutions must follow the very couse of all previous failed solutions - they don't.
Please explain how it will be different this time.
Because it MUST be different this time. Time is what we are running out of. We are either going to grow beyond this for-profit, global, corporate domination; or the earth will, as George Carlin said, "Shake us off like a bad case of fleas."
Or we can do what we have always done. Analyze the problem and devise a solution.
All is not lost, we have just been so busy politically fighting each other that we have not been able to work together.
Technology is not the enemy. We just need to manage it properly.
Just get Eric Canter out and the rest is a cake walk. He is what is holding back progress. The Koch brothers and Eric Canter need to get occupied at their residence AND at their headquarters, office. Why has occupy not done that. Occupy the politicians that matter... Paul Ryan in Wisconsin.
Boycott Koch Bros products - see website for list.
http://inspirationgreen.com/koch-brothers-products.html
Yes, these are the right people to focus on. Concerning the question of inclusion, I tend to agree with those who say we need to focus clearly on spesific goals that unite, rather than divide.
Very true brother! Politically it may be a harder approach...but economically we may have a better success... we just need to really think hard at how to promote 'sustainability' and debunk 'profitability'...
Yes, we must think and work dynamically on all possible levels to change this broken system.
You will all vote straight democrat in the next election. Massa says you gots to stays on the plantation.
I didn't see a gun to his head to sign all that bailout money into oblivion. He's got 80 million in his campaign coffers to be re-elected. He could back out of the race instead of trading favors for it. Ok, if he is victim and the banks are blackmailing him to sell us out, then we definitely need to save him too.
I'm not saying that I believe he's a victim, I'm saying that we shouldn't exclude those (whether he is one of them or not) that tried to create progreesive change through the existing system during all the years you couldn't get an American to demonstrate to save your life, or theirs. I know, because I went to college in the 80s, and we maybe got three people to hold a picket sign if we were lucky.
He has earnes millions since taking office, the only blackmailing going on is from his side, It is the Chicago way.
Yes, do everything you can to stirr up dissention, but we're not buying it.
Well, that was constructive.
You know I am right. I would wager that you have never and will never vote for anyone other than a democrat.
Not as long as the alternative is a Republican.
because you close your mind to any other ideas. democratic plantation, they have got you chained.
The Republicans only have one idea, "me."
You really do not have a clue, do you. What is it that YOU expect from the government?
Firstly, I like to debate people who are occasionally capable of extending a thought beyond a single sentence.
I use and android tablet and my typing skills are lacking, for lack of a better word. The impression I get from you is that you feel the governemtn owes you something and the republicans do not want to give it to you. What has the democratic party done for you that makes you beholden to them?
I'm not beholding to anything but reason and conscience.
You slammed me for a single sentence yet you come up with this nonsense. So I will ask you again, what has the democratic party given you that you feel you deserve and fear the republicans will take away?
Given, given, given! What is it exactly that makes Republicans think they own everything, and that they are therefore in a position to self-riteously deny everyone else a crust of bread! That's what is nonsence here, and that is the issue at question! Hate to break it to you - - - hole, but you aren't the - - cking master of the universe! I'm sorry, but this complacent and undeserved assumption of absolute entitlement is exactly what we are all so pissed-off about! Who the hell do you think you are, assuming I want to be given anything, or most of all that you got anything I want? All you have to offer is spiritual impoverishment! And what gall the Repubs. have complaining about other people's entitlement!
Remember folks, it's divide and conquor!
Brother GypsyKing, Empires with a conquering mentality had already fallen many times in the eyes of history and in the eyes of all humanity! Is time for us to believeeeee! we can do better that divide and conquer...we don't have to perpetuate a system so inefficient and with so much brutality, ignorance and hate involve in! Our civilization can and it will evolve into a more spiritual and mature society. A society where there is not need for greed to live.
I agree wholeheartedly! In terms of means to achieve our ends, I simply don't think we should be thinking in an exclusionary manner, regarding the Democratic party, or anyone else. We must, in other words, work from a recognition of what is, rather then from an illusion of what we would like things to be. The only way we can effect change is by accepting those who have made mistakes as long as they are willing to rectify those mistakes, and this includes the 1%. To think otherwise is to doom the movement to failure. We must accept that humanity is fallible, and that we ourselves are fallible as well. The point is, we must do whatever works!