Forum Post: Occupy: What do we want from the military?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 9:35 p.m. EST by TheMismatch
(50)
from Lafayette, IN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I'm trying to get a better sense of certain Occupy feelings and direction. I've heard a lot about cutting tax loopholes, ending corporate personhood, and restoring regulation to the financial sector- all good things, but I want to get the whole picture. Part of that picture is what to do about the military.
So, what do you think the official position should be? Should we bring the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan, but stop there? Should we do that, and also close down some overseas bases? Should we not only do both of those, but also shrink the size of the military at home?
Or, should we do the opposite? Keep the military at size, keep the bases open, stay overseas?
There are arguments for both, and I hope that this thread inspires some debate on the topic of the armed forces.
I want them to join us. Also what MikeyD said but just cause I think FN P90s are cool and what can I say, gun porn.
Like the Swiss, Every adult gets military training and an automatic weapon but we are all just citizens....action by consensus only....no more US military bases in other countries....
Would you support something along the lines of, "Two years' mandatory service to the country after high school, either in the military or some kind of civil service"?
too bad we are so militarily imperialist. otherwise basic service for a citizen militia would promote responsibility and gun safety etc. as well as allow massive public works projects to help our infrastructure.....
I would like an FN P90 with caseless ammunition.
I don't think Occupy wants anything from the military.
I think different parts of Occupy want different things from the military, and it should be focusing on issues that Occupy agrees on, not issues that will fracture it.
It's like asking "what do we want for dinner?" We want thousands of different things for dinner, and asking everyone to get behind Chicken or go Vegan will just convince fence-sitters to step out.
Mm, good point. I agree that with this many voices, consensus needs to be found- that's why I posted this thread (and why I'll post others); to see if there is one... or if its just everyone calling for a different dinner.
Do you think Occupy should only focus on economic matters?
Personally? No. I think Occupy shouldn't focus on economic matters at all.
I think Occupy should focus on systemic matters. Economic policy is still policy. Very smart people still disagree on the economy - from Neo-Keynesians to Austrian Schoolers. We don't know what the best policy is.
But economic policy is only a symptom of the problem. The real problem is systemic. Our policy is BONKED because our policy-makers aren't looking out for us. They are looking out for the people who fund their campaigns. That's a systemic flaw in representative democracy.
Until Occupy settles on a focus, I will continue to advocate for focusing on THAT problem. Focus on campaign finance reform. Focus on abolishing corporate personhood. Focus on exposing Congress' personal finances. Focus on shedding light on where the money is coming from, who it's going to, and how to stop it from being the only voice left in governance.
This^^
Interesting position. I remember my family was appalled when Citizens United cleared the courts- not exactly surprised, given the Court's demographics, but appalled nonetheless. I've read the Occupy Community's list of 10 demands, and abolishing corporate personhood is on there- but I'm not exactly sure how a group would go about doing that, now that the Supreme Court rules on it, even if they had a sizable influence in Congress. Its been a while since my Civics classes, though... do you know of a way to overturn that ruling?
The Supreme Court interprets law. Congress drafts it. They can introduce legislation - even an amendment, if the calls for an Article V Convention come to fruition - to define personhood and to differentiate between corporate interest and freedom of press. I am not qualified to write the legal text, here - though, even if I could, I wouldn't, because I'd just write it in anger, and that's no way to draft legislation.
Citizens United is incredibly important, but it's still only one avenue through which money dictates government policy. I feel like there are enough avenues here that Occupy would have its hands full if it only focused on that. And this is something the entire 99% - conservative, liberal, or moderate - can support.
Good elucidation
Less. A lot less. How about no more than double the spending of the three largest countries combined? How about Defense combined with Intelligence (11 agencies) totaling no more than 5 times that of any other country in the world? I think that is too much, but how can anyone ask for more more, with a straight face.
Our total is more than the total of every other country in the world combined.
This shouldn't be a demand but it is something the 99% to think about.
I do have to agree with you and I also suggest the close of at least 799 the military bases, why do we need to maintain presence in 150 countries. Is the military obsessed in taking over the world?
Any idea what you might do with hundreds of thousands of soldiers out of work?
Yes, I’m glad you asked. But first dig this. Do you realize that our military enjoys socialize medicine and we the people don’t? Do you realize that our constitution prohibits our military from intervene in other countries affairs? Do you realize that these generals do retired as soon as they come home with huge pensions and all the perks while we the people have no jobs at home? I guess they can join the unemployment line with the rest of us.
Yes...the military has comparatively substandard medical care in hospitals compared to civilian care-though not in trauma. The military does not intervene in other countries affairs except at the invitation of the UN, that country, or an act of war. Those generals have earned their pensions, and if those folks from the military brought their self discipline, talent, and training to that unemployment line, you would just get pushed back even farther.
Be real, do you call 800 military bases around the world an invitation from the UN? How long must we endure paying the ultimate sacrifice to protect private interests? If you think these generals are entitle to high salaries and comfy pension plans, just as the greedy ceo’s on wall street, do not expect the rest of us to pay for it. It is important for everybody to recognize that our economy has already imploded in its own mass due to excessive abuse and exploitation. The party is over and the time to pick up the pieces has arrived, what we're waiting for… total collapse?
Acton's Disease: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Seriously, the military is not monolithic and I know many in it are very concerned about the non sustainability of the Defense budget.
Politicians are pushing much harder than the military for ever larger budgets.
If I remember correctly, the US currently spends as much on defense as the next 17 countries put together- though I can't remember where I heard that, could someone link a credible source? I also don't know if that number includes intelligence.
Personally, I'd think that more money should be put into cybersecurity than into building the latest billion dollar airplane.
I looked it up recently. It is a little difficult to do because we have put some intelligence into Homeland Security. But I think my numbers are close. We are over $700 billion. The next three highest are are about $90, 78, and 56, or something like that. Out Intelligence alone, is more than any other country spends on total defense.
We are not afraid to go to work, if we had any work. So, I think we are secure enough.