Forum Post: Occupy the NRA Divest NOW!
Posted 11 years ago on April 4, 2013, 3:22 p.m. EST by inclusionman
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me
Wacky wayne and other opponents of the expanded use of background checks to prevent firearms getting into the hands of felons and others who shouldn’t be allowed access to deadly weapons frequently make the argument that a criminal isn’t going to try to purchase a weapon legally, and that he or she will simply go to some inner-city street corner to buy an illegal gun.
In fact, background checks do work to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Between November 1998, and February 2013,
FBI statistics prove more than one million attempts to purchase weapons were denied as a result of federally-mandated background checks.
More than 58 percent of these denials were due to the applicant being convicted of a crime punishable by more than one year or a misdemeanor punishable by more than two years.
Another 10 percent were due to the applicant being convicted of a Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence Conviction.
Almost 10 percent were fugitives from justice. Many were arrested when they came back to pick up their gun!
Yet, it is estimated that 40 percent of all gun sales are transacted without any background check at all because of loopholes such as the gun show rule, in which a private gun owner can sell a gun to another private person at a gun show without any check at all.
There’s no need to look for the apocryphal street corner —
just head for the nearest gun show.
We need universal background checks now.
Robert Checchio
It's the only way to reduce the amount of guns that are sold to criminals.
Keep track of sales, jail any SELLER who breaks the law.
And jail mfg/dealers who lose guns.
See how fast gun deaths drop.
You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Criminals don't buy guns from legitimate sources. You and your butt buddies the Democrats are politicizing the death of innocents to push a Progressive agenda of complete gun confiscation. You're a fucking Tool of your Masters the Demoncraps!!
criminals buy guns legally from those dishonest straw purchasers who can sell without background checks.
So you don't support attempting to stop gun sales to criminals?
Why??? Should the transfer of ownership of a gun be any different then the transfer of ownership of a car???????????????
Good point. I believe the transfer/purchase/existence of guns is vastly more important and should be much more stringent than that of a car.
IMHO
Want to sell your old gun? No problem - take the buyer down to the license bureau and register the transfer. What could be more responsible then that?
Innocent law abiding people shouldn't object. But there is massive profits with gun sales to criminals and even across the border.
It's huge profits (over people) and that is the problem.
Profits over people is wrong - done on large scale or small scale. This is what the average individual needs to understand.
True dat. People need to understand and act! Divest now from NRA/Gun Mfg/dealers.
Hit 'em where it hurts.
Just like innocent law abiding citizens shouldnt mind being spied on, or forced to have drones overhead of them, or have their rights taken away, etc.
People selling the guns underground dont care about what rules you make up. the feds are shipping them by the ship full all over the globe.
False comparisons, and exaggerated rhetoric.
People selling guns underground don't care about rules, because there ARE none against the sellers.
That's what we are trying to impose, if we impose strict 10-20 year sentences, they WILL care once we catch a few. And we will catch some.
And that will be the beginning of the reduction in gun deaths.
It will take years of hard work.
Those strict cocaine trafficking laws have really curbed our drug problem right?
But I guess if you removed em, the whole nation would be on coke, right?
So we should just give up if we don't stop every crime.?
Why should we have laws against mugging? We haven't stopped everyone.
Your logic is flawed.
You should give up this effort to protect the criminal gun sales to criminals, and the profits of the Merchants OF Death.
A mugging is a crime commited against another. Doing lines is someones own personal choice.
NRA advocating for criminals
You are in sync with the Merchants Of Doom
http://www.nationofchange.org/nra-demands-softer-penalties-straw-purchasers-1365172189
The people will decide what laws we should pass.
And yes selling guns to known criminals should be a felony with a firm sentence of 20 years in prison. No parole, no plea argain.
The drug issue you brought up as a distraction. I will ignore.
The govt war crimes you brought up as a distraction. I will ignore.
Desperate distractions in defense of criminals selling guns to criminals and Merchant Of Death profits.
We can all repeat.
So? Should we eliminate cocaine laws because we don't catch all cocaine dealers? Same with mugging laws, and finally should we not have laws against selling guns to criminals because we won't catch 'em all?
You describe a meaningless distinction.
Should it be illegal to do or sell coke? No.
Should it be illegal to walk up to someone and jack them in the face? Yes.
And again, what is your definition of a "criminal" when selling something to someone? A misdemeanor? A felony? How long ago? Do people change? If so, when?
And then, do you really want a group who is bombing people left and right making that call?
So? Should we eliminate cocaine laws because we don't catch all cocaine dealers? Same with mugging laws, and finally should we not have laws against selling guns to criminals because we won't catch 'em all?
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Ill repeat. Take a deep breath.
Me doing lines is my own business. Me coming up to and punching you in your ugly mug and taking your wallet is a crime, unless you consulted to it.
Its called consenting adults.
You are an adult right?
20 years in a cage for selling your friend a pistol.
Only in the land of the free.
If your friend is a known criminal then you should be in jail for 20 years.
I think we should stop protecting gun selling criminals and the profits of Merchants Of Death.
Whats your idea of a criminal?
People who shoot other people. (and the profit mangers who sell to them)
How about you, what's your idea of as criminal?
I don think the feds have any business being in either one of em.
Its not up to them to keep track of all this shit. If they didnt totally fuck this entire country up so bad, we wouldnt be worrying about it.
Yes - if it did not fuck up this country/world so bad - We would not care - but that is not the case - so we must care.
I cannot think for one minute why the gov needs to keep a yearly record-even if nothing has changed- of who owns what vehicles, a real good reason.
They force you to buy insurance, then to register, you have to pay to get a license, they will take it away for bullshit not even related to driving, they will stop you and search you for no reason, and then the following year you get to pay them another $80 for a re-registering.
Personally, I think they are out of control.
When you sell your used Prius, are you going to ask the buyer for his drivers license and run a check with BMV before you hand him the keys? Or go with the buyer to the BMV and pay a fee to verify the buyer is a licensed driver?
Hey dumbfuck a car is not a Constitutional right. I'm not surprised you missed that.
Hey SFB - I can not understand your disregarding the importance of gun ownership over car ownership.
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You demonstrate your ignorance of this issue very well.
How so?
So let me ask you a question - you commented that 40% of all gun sale transactions were done without any background checks.
With that being the case what makes you or anyone else think that these 40% that aren't regestered will be regestered.
Lets also take into account the millions of firearms out there that have been bought over the past that haven't been registered.
Who is going to take it upon themselves to knock on the doors of law abiding citizens across the countryasking them if they own firearms that aren't registered?
Like background checks for "unregistered" firearms will work?
Lets focus on where the problem really is - it's the violent youth in our society who have no family values, look up to gang members as their idols, have no respect for themselves let alone the life of others and enjoy selling drugs.
Lets not forget that 99% of all murder/sucides are committed by either the X or Y generation and the melinimum generation is following in their footsteps. .
Think maybe that we have a "violent cultural problem" in this contry instead of a "violent gun" problem?
This should explain it all for you.
http://thinkprogress.org/progress-report/under-the-gun/
Domestic Violence fact sheet
http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticViolenceFactSheet(National).pdf
The USA is the World's Most Violent Industrialized Country when it Comes to Mass Shootings
http://voices.yahoo.com/the-usa-worlds-most-violent-industrialized-709667.html
Get the Facts: The Facts on Domestic, Dating and Sexual Violence
http://www.futureswithoutviolence.org/content/action_center/detail/754
Causes of School Violence
http://www.crf-usa.org/school-violence/causes-of-school-violence.html
You see, you avoided the main issue of my reply the issue of the millions of unregisterd firearms in this country.
Please explain to me how a national background check is going to cover these firearms?
Do you really think those people who legally/illegally own those firearms are going to ask the person they sell it to to get a background check when there is no traceabilitly to the firearm they are selling?
.
The current background check being discussed does not cover previously purchased firearms.
I think there will be some slip ups in selling without a background check, people will go to jail and that will serve as a deterrent for many others.
Over time the slip ups, deterred sales, gun buy backs, police confiscations after criminal actibity will make a dent in gun deaths.
In time as well, we must tighten up gun mfg/dealer "losing" thousands of weapons annually. And that means inventories, and jail time for failures in keeping track of weapons.
I support traceability, registration of existing guns as well. Why not? That isn't a violation of the 2nd amendment.
Does THAT answer your question?
So tell me, how will a person go to jail if there is no record of ownership nor record of a sales transaction should that person sell that firearm to someone he doesn't know.
As far as Mfg's losing "thousands of weapons annyally" - where is that documented - I have never heard of such a thing
I have to give you scenarios of how criminals are caught? You want me to educate you on police tactics? No thanks. That's not how we determine the value of any law. There are many ways.
And every gun DOES have serial numbers, we currently are able to trace them back to mfg. It ain't easy. Because some pols (in bed with NRA/Mfg) have actually passed laws to make it more difficult to track! Repubs just snuck passed language stating the fed govt can't force Mfg/dealers to keep inventory? Whaaaaaaat? That ain't right.
I just saw Lapierre state we should cut punishment for illegal straw sales? Whaaaaaaaat?
Clearly one side wants to protect illegal sales to criminals.
THAT is the issue. Profits over people.
So how will a criminal go to jail? Like they ALL do. By getting caught by smarter police.
Are you advocating for the criminals like Lapierre now? Are you advocating for less records/inventory like the NRA puppet pols?
People over gun profits! Divest NOW!!!
Well first off not all firearms have serial numbers and I am not going to tell you how I know.
Secondly - there are a lot of manufacturers that went out of business -across the world and they no longer have any records nor may not have had any records
So to say that "serial numbeers" are traceable is bull.
As far as "profits over people" it is the government who is causing the high demand for firearms - why you may ask - maybe it's because of this:
Cuban Communism Survivor Testified to Lawmakers on Gun Control
http://gunssavelives.net/blog/amazing-chilling-video-cuban-communism-survivor-testified-to-lawmakers-on-gun-control/
-
Serial numbers ARE traceable. What are you a moron? If there is none then it can't be traced. That is obvious. Most current guns do & should.
The high demand is caused by the NRA fear mongerers who whip up ignorant people to think that the govt or the UN is gonna take our guns away.
And the NRA does it just to increase sales not because they care about rights.
Well dumb ass let me educate you - serial numbers were first required in 1968 when the Gun Control Act of 1968" was signed into law.
So let me emphasise "not all firearms have serial numbers and not all firearms are registered to be traceable".
Just goes to show how little you really know about firearms and people who own them
Well 45 years of traceable guns and all future guns is an excellent start.
So I'll settle for those that have serial numbers. That is our biggest problem massive numbers of new guns going directly from weak gun law sates directly to gangs in the cities.
Let's catch a few of those disgusting criminal gun traffickers. And we will see a real reduction in gun deaths in the cities.
Register them. Background check the owner. Send bill to nra, gun lobby.
You forget the "well regulated militia"
Do you really think that's going to happen - think again.
Why not. They're like big tobacco. No care for consequences of their products.
Won't happen today maybe tomorrow
Don't hold your breath - I am not sure how familiar you are with people who legally own firearms but the vast majority aren't going to give any information out about the firearms they own.
No one is proposing that the past gun insanity can be fixed
74% of NRA members want universal background checks on all SALES
do you disagree ?
England & Australia had gun problems,
they passed new gun laws,
gun deaths decreased
do you disagree ?
For 2011, the average Murder Rate in Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
Do you disagree ?
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
Do you disagree ?
How many of those states with the "highest murder rates" have cities in them with a population of over 2 million.
BTW - here's a link:
The suicide generation
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/11/22/1100972322996.html
If the nra employees in congress
want to allow an AR15 to be carried on my campus or in my church,
why don't they allow an AR15 to be carried in congress ?
hypocritical sh1ts
Good question.
You're still leaching off the slain children of Sandy Hook for your own political advantage.
You're disgusting.
The pro gun safety movement is not using 20 murdered little children -
we are using 11,000 murdered Americans
GUNS – Facts & numbers & opinion & solution
FACTS: There is little difference between a gun owner and a gun buyer
There is no difference between a gun owned and a gun bought
The constitution does give some people the right to “bear some arms”
More Americans ( in absolute numbers & per capita ) are killed by guns than in almost any other country ( USA 11,000+; England 35 )
Almost no hunters hunt with semi-automatic weapons
“Assault weapon” is a term well defined in law but not well understood
Legislatures & courts ( including SCOTUS ) have set numerous limits on the 2nd amendment’s right to “bear arms”
Just like legislatures & courts ( including SCOTUS ) have set numerous limits on the 1st amendment’s right to “free speech” [ no “fire in a crowded theatre” ]
You can buy a revolver arm but not a grenade launcher arm
A 9 year old cannot buy a shotgun
Australia & England both passed strict new gun control laws –
………and drastically cut their gun deaths
The nra uses its members to sell guns for the gun manufacturers
It is illegal to drive an un-registered car
It is illegal to drive if you are un-licensed
It is illegal to drive an un-insured car
The 1994 “assault weapons ban” did not work because it did NOT ban assault weapons – it only banned their sale or manufacture.
OPINIONS
The real problem never discussed:
It is not the gun sellers or
the gun buyers –
or even the guns –
it is the gun OWNERS
I would divide most gun deaths into five categories:
the Sandy Hook mass murderers,
drug related street crime,
non-drug related street crime,
“personal” crimes of anger,
suicide.
Consider each one - all would be reduced if we reduced the number of guns ( and legalized drugs ). The complex, conflicting state laws and the huge number of guns owned by Americans makes confiscation ( that no one is advocating ) totally unfeasible
We need a uniform federal gun law
The “mental health” issue is an nra stall – unless they agree that everyone who OWNS a gun must be psychoanalyzed and certified “safe to own guns”.
The nra’s “American culture is different” is another stall – most countries have hunters, violent movies, citizen owned guns, violent video games, drugs.
Background checks & closing the gun show loophole will help –
but ONLY with new sales –
it does nothing about OWNERS – and there are 100,000,000 of them. If just 1/10 of 1% of them are crazy, that’s 10,000 crazy gun OWNERS!
SOLUTION: Based on reducing guns, not confiscation
1►
learn as much as you can about the numbers that prove what the solutions are
2►
demand a plan:
http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index=1
alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1
multi-millionaire gun manufacturer wayne lapierre who works for koch brothers & gets paid over $1,000,000 / year
to get his army of lemmings to keep buying guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dar6K2STVVQ
3►
DO: WRITE CONGRESS:
find your congresspeople
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Dear ............................:
[ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E ]
While some people may want to confiscate guns, I don’t.
Here is a much more feasible approach.
It will not solve all gun problems, but it will
reduce the number of guns
and that will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns -
and isn't THAT our real goal?
My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.
Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our 11,000+ gun disasters:
1►
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.
2►
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.
3►
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.
4►
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police
additionally -
Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000:
America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides
England.…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides
Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides
Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides
France….: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides
Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides
Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls
The above link is to England police statistics - see table D19
The nra & its trolls are claiming that we will fail, where England & Australia succeeded in reducing gun deaths substantially by legislation.
Statistics clearly prove that the number of guns in a state or in a country adds to the risk of homicides.
More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.
When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.
In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 35 gun deaths in England
For 2011, the average Murder Rate in Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
VERY IMPORTANT:
▬► The 1994 gun "ban" did NOT ban assault weapons.
▬►It banned the MANUFACTURE & SALE of assault weapons.
▬►For $300 you can buy a legal accessory to make an AR15 fully automatic (800rpm)
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said that there are "undoubtedly" limits to a person's right to bear arms under the Second Amendment, but that future court cases will have to decide where to draw the line. That line could be between you and an AR15.
And of course if we stopped money going from advocacy groups & corporations to buy politicians, this would be a very big step in the right direction
Watch our videos: Hedges, Kucinich, Warren, Chomsky , Sanders ,
Romney, Reich, Hartmann, Maddow, Nader, Feingold, Jefferson
And read our analysis of Corporate Personhood & Citizens United & evaluate the national polls that prove the truth. See the new HJR29
http://corporaionsarenotpeople.webuda.com
Thorough as always. Indeed this info laden comment grows with every posting.
Much appreciated.
Thx
Fucking spam!!!!
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Hee HEE HE He he hehehehe - don't think the young-un liked it - spam - I can relate - Hormel Spam = not fit for eating = IMO.
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Such a lovely picture for such an awful product.
One thing is clear you got nothing above the shoulders to offer and your homosexual overtures are more suited for DKAtoday.
People in Hawaii love spam. I don't care for it. Hormel product. But different strokes for different folks. Why would you bring this up in a post about the NRA ???
You seems to be a tireless Troll. Since you don't have anything of substance to contribute how about you go back and finish watching your Teletubbies.
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Still trying to molt your snakeskin?
Huh?? Wtf is wrong with you?
Not a thing. Other then fibromyalgia. YOU??? ummmm - not known - ummmm other then your being a shill - that is.
Sorry didn't realize you were suffering from a mental illness,I just guessed you were talking crazy shit cause you're a Progtard Troll.
You're a full on shill for the Demoncraps.
Ah there we go. An idiot right winger that likes pet names. Ive been waiting for one of you freaks to show up.
A forum is not complete until you have BOTH sides using moronic stupid versions of party names in a little mud slinging contest.
We have officially hit mainstream folks. So much that.
Good night.
"United We Stand, Divided We Fall"
See again you advertise your limited knowledge. Fibromyalgia is not a mental illness - No - it is a central nervous system illness.
You are a full on SHILL. Me? I am a full on supporter of humanity.
So - BLOW ME You ASSHOLE.
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vulgarity - the first sign of dementia
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I didn't use the gun slaughter of those 20 precious children.
A lot more children have died since.
What's wrong with divesting our money from the Merchants Of Death?
I own guns and stock in two gun manufactures. I don’t anyone divesting in any company they don’t like. I say go for it. But I’m not ready to sell my stock yet.
C/mon,we need your support. Everyone must divest. For the sake of the children.
Think I'll wait for the next run on guns. Seems to be one every year. Not a good idea to sell profitible stock.
You will be doing the right thing for our children. That is far better.
Y'know profit over people.
Why don't you get a grip and understand that Leftist Utopian schemes are just that,...SCHEMES!! You're a Tool,have some dignity and stop being a Drone.
Ok. Your right. I understand. I'm a drone. leftist schemes don't work.
I will submit to your rightist view.
What exactly do I have to support.?
Guns on demand for everyone? cut taxes on the rich? cut benefits for the old, sick, and poor?
Preemptive invasions?
You need to increase your education and rebuke your propagandization. You know so much that just isn't so.
What do you support?
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You are right, lets wait for the next massacre.
Thats what wayne & alec told me to say.