Forum Post: Occupy Schools Shutdown All College Campuses Until Tuition is Affordable
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 22, 2011, 7:08 p.m. EST by leavethecities
(318)
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Shut down all college campuses until tuition is affordable to the poor in america.
UC Davis shows how the 1 percent controls education and supresses free expression
No, it shows a bunch of goofy kids that think it's cool to protest... something... anything. Even most of the students pass them by thinking they're losers.
You and John Pike must be buds.. those goofy kids lets have fun with those losers ... spray spray... Just because people have different opinions than you doesnt make them losers..
No, a difference of opinion isn't what makes them losers, I'll give you that. But that doesn't change what they are. Most of the other students laugh at them too. Some people can be incredibly stupid when they're 19. Even most 19 year olds know that.
I love how people come on here an criticize...go away loser
I believe the problem and the solution are simple. High demand equals high price. Why is demand for college so high? It isn't really. The demand has been artificially inflated by easy to obtain government scholarships and loans. A highly visible symptom of this is the huge number of 'cupcake' degrees, as one poster called them. This is a way to skirt through without learning too much or trying too hard. That isn't the sign of someone who actually wants to go to college. It's also become increasingly common for those who don't attend college to be ostracized by society. All that together puts more people on campus causing the price to go up. Unfortunately there are several levels of sufferers. Those who want to be there and get saddled with tons of extra debt, those who don't want to be there and get a worthless degree and saddled with tons of debt, and myself for having to listen to all of them whine because they can't figure out simple economics. So the solution is... get the government out of education. Allow for an open market in the education industry. Competition always produces lower prices and higher quality. Feel free to occupy the universities until that happens though.
Yep according to bahomet less education is more or lessismore. Why have more when you can have less got it.
I don't get your generalization.
But I'll go with it. Less people with a degree that can't get them a job. Less people with student loan debt they can't payoff because they can't get a job. Less people who can get a job but have outrageous student debt because of the inflated price due to the first group. (Also can be phrased as 'People who can get a a job have less student debt.)
I've experienced first hand what free school is like. My state gave me a free ride even though I didn't have any desire to be there. It only made it more expensive for everyone else. Some didn't care because they had fee rides as well. The ones it hurt were the poor and less gifted who truly wanted to be there.
You'll have any easier time getting gov't out of the business than you will convincing high schoolers that they shouldn't go to college if they don't want too even though it's "free" for them. The booze, the babes, being away from parents... good luck.
Keep in mind we share the same goal.
College graduates drink less stay married longer etc... but that being said we arent just throwing sterotypes out.. cause of when i think of college you got to think of animal house did you see how well it worked for them. ... check the credits
Just change the system all together. Do what they do in Denmark and Sweden, nationalize ALL universities and colleges. Give them a free education where entrance is based on merit alone, this of course means that not everyone will get to go to university or college. Higher education institutions are publicly financed and State-regulated. The quality of higher education is ensured by ministerial approval of new programmes and institutions, external examiners and an evaluation system. Although they have institutional autonomy, institutions must follow general regulations concerning teacher qualifications, award structures, study programmes and quality assurance. The relevant Ministries approve new programmes. The Danish Evaluation Institute (EVA) is responsible for external quality assurance. Its evaluations form the basis for accreditation of Professional Bachelor's programmes and private sector programmes in order to make their students eligible for State study grants.
Is anyone down with OPP for PREZ
What would yo say uf I sang out of tune would you stand up and walk out on me
Support UC Davis students!
I know it's hard to believe but you have to: “WE ARE FREE!!!” (Take off the blinders) Isn't that why we're here? http://WeAreFree.osixs.org Wake----Up! It's time to throw off the chains...
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM Free people shouldn't act or live like slaves...
Please stay on topic your ideas may be interesting but currently they are off topic, I will look at your site some other time.
Are you kidding? this is the topic. This is what's killing us - Stupidity. We'd rather entertain ourselves with nonsense (like ipads and ring tones) while the world is on fire. And oh by the way, don't distract my entertainment to warn me that my hair and ass is on fire. Dude! don't bother looking at anything. Your ass ain't worth saving.
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM OsiXs (Revolution 2.0 - The Smart Revolution)
Well thanks dude. Things are in the works... I'll try my best to save your ass. Thus is bigger than you think. We are talking about issues, but you and I know there is something afoot.
I'm out of college so this is an action that doesn't effect me, but isn't it self defeating? It might work if you could get near unanimous support, but if not it's likely to fail and lead to more than a few expulsions.
You could probably make education free for areas where the discipline fills an existing need. Do something like the military does. Determine where the jobs need to be filled, screen applicants and require a minimum length of service to pay for the education costs. Guaranteed jobs, and guaranteed payment sponsored by those that need the jobs filled. Should also help prevent gluts. Anything that doesn't fill a need would be paid for by the student.
A college education basically only certifies that the basic training requirements are met. You can actually learn more and faster through self study, just no way to certify any particular level of knowledge, other than independent certification/testing.
I agree more information needs to be available for students about the economic choices, but that is just one factor. Areas where there are a diversity of ideas tend to have better growth and more innovation then other parts of the country look at Austin TX for example. Individual choices effect society from music dress culture design thought.
Most definitely agree w/ you here. I find that a wider knowledge base helps in finding solutions to problems faster, and better. However, if the basic requirements needed to get a job get met the individual, if interested can supplement their knowledge base through free, independent study.
I'm absolutely loving the access to information that the internet gives, and think access should be universally available.
I think it would be good to have free open source schools where people actually meet, in my mind there is more information passed in ten minutes of personal conversation than an hour online. Free symposiums and Lectures an universally accredited public study system would be good. I like to visit astronomy talks at my local university.
I agree that more information CAN be passed in personal conversation, but that group sizes are often too large, and hinders the information flow.
Sometimes a person learns in the environment of school and sometimes in class, in general I agree class sizes need to be smaller and the learning environment can be approved but these are secondary issues still important but not what im trying to emphasize right now.
Understood. What I'm attempting to address is just in the area of practical education related to getting a job, and alternate models for obtaining that type of education. For example something similar to the old style apprenticeship programs, w/ the possible addition of government subsidies so the entire burden isn't on the small business owner or student.
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Occupy the Schools is right, many people need to be occupying those seats and getting an education. Inform and educate yourselves. Knowledge is something that once attained cannot be taken. Knowledge is power. Knowledge will make change possible. Without it, only actions are taking place, but with knowledge these actions can be turned into results. Tuition rates are affected by laws of supply and demand. When the government gives grants, subsidies and more availability to student loans, demand for a college education goes up while the supply remains the same. Thus, prices of tuition goes up. Tuition increases are invested to expand the level of students that can be accommodated. But if demand continues to increase, then tuition rates continue to climb because expansion cannot keep up with rising enrollments. Until enrollment levels off or declines, prices of tuition will continue to rise. This is very simple, basic economics.
All you have to do is stop attending along with every other American then the Institutions will choose to close or lower tuition. You speak as a consumer by where you spend your money.
Sorry what will happen is that budgets will be slashed and less money will be made available for public education. Typically private schools are MORE expensive than public schools.
Tuition has risen for a number of reason, one significan reason is administrations and positions for 1 percenters have grown. It has been a game for the corrupt tuition should pricipally be supporting teachers. I for one dont want schools to become like a glorified night school you see on television.
http://www.fastcompany.com/pics/sites/fastcompany.com.mba/linkedfiles/imagecache/slideshowlarge/slideshows/ps6.jpg. John pike and the bunnies
Im an engineer and I have a job. The only jobs you want people to have is mcdonalds.
That's good because we don't need so many people in college. We need higher pay for blue collar workers so that they are once again the middle class. There are too many people in college. That's why those ridiculous universities for profit are able to rip students and tax payers off - too many people think they need a college degree. College degrees are over-rated. Higher pay for blue collar workers.
Hey everyone! I am at a Best Buy on Long Island. I am #2 in line for Black Friday. I'll buy your stiuff for $10 bucks. Ask for Max.
I think that tuition for the liberal arts should be more money because after you get your degree, you will not find a good job and then you will get more State benifits sosting tax payers more money.
so people are slaves .. we want them making as much money as possible for us so they are less sof a burden ..most college graduates do okay...and on average are a net plus.. the economy changes and we attack the students .. Really liberal arts graduates are a net positive for the economy there are some who are having difficulties.. are we just going make arguments with made up sterotypes Really! Crooked Wall street bankers make even more are they heros because they are doing well.. they are good about not paying taxes... Really is that the best talking points you got.. John Pike would be proud .. if he wasnt busy pepper spraying those supposedly liberal arts welfare babies as you guys are calling them Really... Dont have to think just say the first cliche you hear..
Really, why should Government help pay for the soft or "cupcake' degrees? This needs to stop. Just like the Post Office, get rid of of paying for them.
Why have anything that doesnt benefit you mandodod. Why have highways so the 1 percenters trucks can go on them. Why have schools,space programs, why do research. Why have a military industrial complex, now there is a big loser of tax payer money.. how about why have public water lets sell it to a swiss company and make it illegal to collect rain water like they did in bolivia.. or maybe let coke run it and charge a 80 cents a liter to people who make less than a dollar a day..most americans like cupcakes
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So what happens to the students that actually want to attend class?
All students want to attend class, you are implying students dont want to be in school it is quite opposite.
So your solution to college tuition problems is to shut down the colleges thereby denying the kids who are already students to attend class, right?
No My solution is to shut down schools schools lower tuition classes resume did you have something else in mind like making everybody go to louisiana highschools for college degrees.
your position makes no sense. The poor actually pay almost nothing to attend college. Financial aid is based on need. The poorer you are the more money is granted (not loaned) to you. The kids attending the UC system in California that are on scholarship are your poor kids. It is the middle class and upper income kids that have to pay or take out student loans.
I will have to think and research what you said for a day or two... thanks could you comment on Obama Perry Paul for President I would like your thoughts. ..
Yeah, you need to check on this. My daughter does not qualify for ANY grants, and only a small LOAN because her mother and I make too much. $100k a year combined.
I do think middle class and upperclass americans need to have same tuition adjustments as everyone else. Why should your kids come out behind at the very least tuition shoud be a decuction and a partial credit on federal taxes.
Is Obama Perry Paul a clone of all three?
I am reserving my thoughts on the Republican candidates and Obama for now. Still too early in the process and the Republicans need to cull their herd of candidates.
Obama Perry Paul or OPP as his friends call him just announced. I am sure if you could find more about him if you found the forum topic.
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You can get a degree in particle physics or mining/petroleum engineering that will pay off you education a year or 2. I have been to several graduations from colleges lately, all the tough rigorous science degees were obtained by foreignstudents, particularly Asian.
there has been a significant shift in emphasis, but without college education the kind of work available is limiting. There needs to be more emphasis practical studies but even those with liberal studies gain ability in expression that a highschool graduate wouldnt have. In the 70s there were over 10000 mathematics phd graduates a year. Now there is less than a 1000 with most being asian. This says something something about the direction United States is headed. There is less money in pure sciences which is critical in training the students of tommorow. Many astronomy majors and pure science majors are staying as graduate researchers making very little. These are examples of how the lack of federal funding is making academics less attractive. I still say that I would rather have an education and be poor than none at all. Everyone deserves the opportunity to learn. It is the catalyst of ideas that will fuel tommorow. A lot of famous entrepeneurs came from college settings because they learned about exchanging ideas and thinking. The interchange of ideas free from the directed work environment is critical to the future of this country. Not only economically but socially. As for asians I heard they were the number one group who were bullied in highschool. The question is not ahutting down oppurtunity for some, but opening doors for all.
that's a maybe on mining and petroleum engineering, i.e. if the EPA will allow you to work.
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Engineering degrees are about flat over the last 30 years. Soft majors, however, have exploded. Yeah, I suppose people do find a deal languages degree to be expensive when you graduate and get a job at Starbucks. LOL.
I suppose in your mind school should stop at 8th grade and we should only let people major in what you want them to.
Nope, education is great. But the best way to make college more "affordable" is to come out with an education that helps with a job. The degree of shock among students with weak grades and dopey majors that find it hard to manage $70k in debt is amazing. If you want to take Celtic Studies, knock yourself out, just don't bitch for subsidies.
I think it is good for someone to become more rounded and have a diversity of thought. I think sometimes there is a lack of rigor in some areas of study, which is the more fundamental problem. College needs to teach someone to think and examine not necessarrily everything. I know some linguistics that are the best software people you could find.
Sure, that's great. But then do it on your dime.
We already heavily subsidize higher education. And that's great. But asking society, realizing that most people don't go to college, to extend even more subsidy, especially when majors and outcomes are so weak, is inappropriate. Whiney self-centered 19 year olds see it differently.
Are you self centered if you dont want to support the desires of the next generation, this is about you isnt it.
We have put a quota on foreigners with advanced rigorous degrees being hired by the Intels and Oracles whle ignoring the fact that these highly paid jobs could go to Americans, if only Americans would work toward degrees with true rigor. At least 85000 highly paid jobs go to foreigners with rigorous degrees. This is the country that landed a man on the mooon with computers no better than todays hand calculators.
Yes I know, but an interesting thing was the invention of the Kalman Filter which made it all possible. We need to support academics and make degrees more rigorus more affordable and have the best tools available tutoring etc to insure student success.
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LOL. Yeah, let's all just dig a little deeper to pay for classes that you can't figure out how to pay for yourself. Makes sense. Say, what time is my Perspectives on Medieval homoerotism class?
What is yours. Do you know anything about the subject, I personally havent studied in that area but might find it interesting because I like history.
Sorry I misread your sentence I thought you said what is my perspective... Do you have ian interest not necessarily that class in particular you should pursue your interests.
Sure, it might be. But enjoy it on your own dime and have enough of a brain in your head to know what'll happen if you borrow money to do it. Bankers don't make people take out student loans, students... COLLEGE STUDENTS, do that all on their own.
Student shouldnt have to take out loans to study, I have faith that their studies if academically challenging should help society as a wole culturally and economically. Hence the title of the Forum. Bankers are the problem. Debt is a symptom of how society doesnt value education.
Why not? So, in the pecking order of responsibility, it's the other guy first and then the student last?
Yes, bankers bad. I get that point pretty easily reading this forum. But students, yes college students at that, borrowed the money. Bankers don't practice mind control and free will wasn't suspended, honest to God.
Students need to simply smarten up and be better consumers. They need to learn a little respect for the money they're spending and the money they're borrowing. And that respect will soon be reciprocated by schools that will shovel fewer dopey courses their way as students simply won't be as willing to take them.
Debt is a symptom of how society doesn't value education? Huh? WTF? People take on debt BECAUSE they value education and want more of it. Now, they're sobering up about how to better use debt for education, but it's no sign of education not being valued.
Uh, it's pecking order, not peeking order. The phrase did originate with observations of chickens.
Happy thanksgiving, everyone.
Im saying there should be less debt. ecause the public should carry the cost of education the reason there is debt is the student wanted to pursue an education but the 1 percent doesnt want him educated because it would cut into thier monopolies.
That's a run on sentence. OK, you should go back to school. But for others seeking a better life for themselves, there's simply no reason that they should shoulder less of the responsibility for secondary education.
Well educated people enjoy a large income advantage over uneducated people. Most people don't go to college. To ask them to increase subsidy of college students is to ask them to further disadvantage themselves. That's completely unfair. All the college kid needs to do is to respect the cost, respect the debt (if they borrow), and not blow it. It's fair to ask college students to overcome the strain by simply making better choices before going again to the subsidy well.
The subsidy talk starts with "no debt" and "make it more affordable", but never seems to end with an honest appraisal of who pays.
Thanks for the correction, Im typing on my IPAD with one finger and not proofreading anything, so sorry. Tuition taxes do not come from the working poor as you suggest for most states. I will consider going back to school, thanks again.
You can make it lot more affordable by having a shot at a job when you graduate. To accomplish that, you need to not major in something idiotic like Women's Studies or Sociology.
[-] leavethecities 1 points 1 minute ago Im an engineer and I have a job. The only jobs you want people to have is mcdonalds. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink
Or Queer Musicology.