Forum Post: Occupy Hurting Their Cause
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 31, 2012, 1:53 p.m. EST by utahdebater
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
OWS is severely crippling their cause by committing crimes against the city of Oakland. People are starting to see you in even a worse light. Breaking into City Hall and then threatening to sue the police for illegal arrest tactics is absolutely ridiculous. Do any of you have any common sense or reason?
I can see all of your points, but honestly if we want any effect in the physical(not cyber) world, then we have to be like Gandhi.
hahaha wowwwww
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Yeah those violent fascists, throwing plastic water bottles at people who attacked them with bombs and poison gas. Who ever heard of such terror since the third reich?
And trying to convert an abandoned civic auditorium into a social center to provide food, education, healthcare, and shelter for the city's massive underprivileged population? Doesn't everyone know that property rights trump the right to survival? The constitution never said anything like that socialist hogwash.
And Occupying a YMCA? By allowing the employees of the YMCA to help them escape from a police kettle they were undermining everything we stand for.
At least before anyone even made it to City Hall 400 people were kettled and arrested for breaking into City Hall! Maybe if they hadn't been arrested them at the Y they all could have gone to City Hall to protest their own arrest. That would have been even more of a mess!
And if no one had trashed city hall and burned a flag then the bad actions of the police would have been the big story.
ya so if we just get our skulls beat in and arrested and play the victim enough times then the world will magically change?
As it happened, you got your skulls beat in and alienated many members of OWS and the public. Wouldn't it be better to have a public who would respond with outrage to obviously peaceful protestors being brutalized? Or do you prefer to get beat up and lose their sympathies because you gave a giant 'fuck you' to Americans who have a deep negative reaction to flag burning? If you have to get the crap beat out of you, at least make it count for something.
The reason the public doesn't understand what is happening is not because OO got too rowdy, it's because the media distorts everything. They do this no matter what actions we take. It will always alienate people. We will always be portrayed as either criminals or smelly ragged drum-circlers. We have to consider what the media will say, but we cannot let them dictate our actions.
We have to escalate (even in order to keep the media interest you are so passionate about), which right now in Oakland means taking new and different physical spaces to build community spaces and empowerment and provide for underprivileged people. It is an offensive but non-violent move. We knew the police would oppose us. We earnestly were trying to get to the building. Should we have not tried for knowledge that the police would hurl bombs and poison gas at us? Should we have walked up to them and waited to be arrested? Honestly, if a KKK member tried to mortally would you, would you be justified in throwing a plastic water bottle at them? If a neo-nazi faction kidnapped 400 of your friends and beat them up and held them in cold basements for 48 hours with tens of thousands of dollars ransom, would you be justified in breaking into their house and tipping over a few vases?
Yes, the media will present a distorted picture and that is why it is so important to not give them the rope to hang you with.
I don't know enough about the background of the taking over the building action to have an opinion on that. What, if anything, did OO do to try to make that happen through city government? What did you do to try to build community support for it?
It is fine to engage in civil disobedience to fight injustice. Sure, why not walk up and wait to be arrested (and BTW, why was this done at night time so good video of what is happening is easier to get?). You got arrested anyway. You didn't get the building anyway. At least by remaining calm you de-escalate the situation. Peaceful people being led away in handcuffs makes a more powerful statement than chaos where it is hard to tell who is doing what.
Throwing a plastic water bottle at someone trying to kill me would be just plain stupid. Like that's going to save me. LOL.
I would try to help my friends escape if they were held in neo-nazi basements. How exactly would tipping over a few vases help me accomplish that?
Funny that you mention the Klan, because I've drawn those parallels between the Klan and OWS since the beginning.
Wearing masks, marching at the behest of Anonymous and coercive General Assemblies where idiotic mantras are repeated have plenty in common with hate groups. Mainly, though, it is OWS collective belief that some "other" is the source of their troubles.
My views are not influenced by news media. What I know of OWS is from personal interaction with it dating from Sept 18. The leadership is awash with terrorists. Sadly, thousands are under their spell.
they also threw lit flares and bricks at the police. but please keep omitting facts to strengthen your argument.
Oh thank you for the clarification, you must have been even closer to the line of cops than I was, which was about 50 feet. I saw no evidence of "improvised explosives" or flares, but sure people threw rocks and bottles. Once again, is it so unreasonable to throw a rock at somebody who hurls poison and bombs at you? Why is it different when they do it?
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'''''''''Do any of you have any common sense or reason?'''''''
No, but they have an awful lot of emotion and some wild ideas and envy.
Hurting???. This is what they DO> Violence. mindless destruction, mask wearing thugs.
What the fuck did you expect. Peaceful pretesting?. Just wait till the summer riots. These will seem like a Tea Party gathering.
You speak out against violence, as a means to getting the corruption out of our government, even though, these represent a small minority.
I'll bet you are one of those that are for violence as a tool though when it comes to the same corrupt government forcing their way on other countries in the world through the use of the military.
Funny..that "small minority", always shows up at EVERY ONE of your gatherings.
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I think its because they have experimented in more "polite" ways of protesting their point of view but they are becoming increasingly more "assertive" because they don't feel like its being listened to. Probably working their way into the philosophy that violent revolution is bred when peaceful revolution is stifled.
Being ignored is not being stifled.
being ignored when the tactics are purely symbolic actions = being ineffective, being ineffective = being stifled
Being ineffective is a result of piss poor planning, lack of discipline, lack of leadership and lack of a clear message. Don't get upset that the majority of people won't support a rag tag bunch of antagonists.