Forum Post: NYPD Sending Homeless Alcoholics From Around The City To Zuccotti
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 31, 2011, 12:16 p.m. EST by GreedKills
(1119)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The NYPD seems to have crossed a line in recent days, as the park has taken on a darker tone with unsteady and unstable types suddenly seeming to emerge from the woodwork. Two different drunks I spoke with last week told me they’d been encouraged to “take it to Zuccotti” by officers who’d found them drinking in other parks, and members of the community affairs working group related several similar stories they’d heard while talking with intoxicated or aggressive new arrivals
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/cops-apparently-telling-drunken-stree
It seems a problem with any altruistic movement in the middle of a selfish society is that it can get overwhelmed by the pent-up demands for unmet needs... Doesn't mean the movement is wrong; just that it is hard to keep going in the face of so much societal dysfunction until it passes some tipping point.
OWS provides a better social safety net than NYC and the US government.
True.... when you dont need to worry about working to fund your needs and can operate solely on donations.
Which makes a good argument for defunding the "institutions" that have failed us.
All homeless people are welcome, we are happy to feed and cloth those one million people whose homes were forclosed on. homeless people are not alcoholics because they don't have a home. homeless people are mothers and fathers and children who had they're homes repossessed by banks after they were sold a false bill of goods. Most were convinced by the slogan "ownership society" All families who have no shelter are encouraged to come and be fed and clothed and housed (tented) These are the people we are fighting for, those whose voices are not being heard. Did you know that 66%, yes 2/3 of homeless people are Veterans of american wars! An outrageous statistic. We expect them to protect us at war but when they come home with PTSD they are thrown to the streets. Quite sickening
If I were homeless or a drunk, I'd probably go to Zuccotti as well. Easier to find food, shelter, and warmth with a mass of people. Just sayin
Cute, more annoyance strategies. But, they're right, they can say what they want. Its up to the drunks to do it or not. Now, if they were intentionally NOT arresting the drunks, or telling the drunks they wouldn't be arrested if they go to Zuccoti, or in some other way coercing them to go in a way that broke any # of possible laws, there would be some ground....
Again, all I can say is, get as much as you can on film.....
good call
just don't make them fight for a sandwich
Record and report, the world is watching ;)
Here's my suggestion and what people on the ground are probably already doing. Connect with sympathetic employees at homeless shelters, meals programs, churches. Donate a portion of OWS funds to these programs to provide additional meals, necessities, staffed hours at their facilities. (They could even set up shop at Zuccotti to refer clients to appropriate services). People at OWS have probably come up with a list of referral agencies. But it would be good to connect to outreach staff to see if someone with experience serving homless and additcted individuals could actually come down to Zuccotti. If police are referring people with mental illness and/or substance abuse to the park rather than to medical treatment, or appropriate social services they are really neglecting their duties.
The problem with some homeless is that they will not go to a shelter. They stay drunk all the time so the shelter doesn't even want them there. They are families in shelters you can't have disagreeable drunks. All shelters have a no alcohol policy.
Occupy should have a no alcohol policy as well. Public drunkenness is against the law in NY. Camping out to petition the government for redress of grievances in not against the law. If a drunk is identified by protesters to the cops, the cops are obligated to deal with them.
I suppose it's different in different states. We have "wet" shelters my state where people can be intoxicated just not using on site and family shelters are completely separate system so you'd NEVER have an single intoxicated person in amongst families with kids. Anyway, your're right, the police should be dealing with them.
Thom Hartmann speaks to Jesse La Greca about NYPD sending homeless and mentally ill to Liberty Park and other issues connected to OWS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vxtg4UERA
As an outsider, I see OWS protesters badgering and harassing the NYPD, they are only there to keep the peace and make sure the laws are upheld. The OWS protesters are screaming at the Police and running rampant in the streets blocking traffic, preventing the other smaller mom and pops shops from doing business.
Why do u turn them away .... I thought u were all equals
Who said they were turned away?
That sounds like typical 1% style tactics. Maybe OWS needs to start a detox center.
Thank you for being there at Liberty park. Being a self employeed man in construction, I am just a pay check away from loseing everything. Knowing that in no matter what shape i am in, that you will feed me and keep me safe, is a blessing
Glad to see the people that support OWS also support helping those less fortunate. As for the others commending the NYPD using the homeless as pawn and just being childish trolls, we all know where that type of hate comes from.
The city so wants to stop this movement. They can't do it, it's already in the dna of the society.
Send the Homeless to 1 police plaza.
Fuck the Police!!!...with Broomsticks!!
Irony... well, see, and there ya go - the cops can be funny people, too.
Manipulative yes, funny no.
Well, you're certainly not possessed of an Irish sense of humor, are you?
I'm sorry, I'll try harder next time ;)
Sounds like you're the crook and liar here! I hope you clowns get robbed by the homeless!
I hope you get hugged by your Mom once in a while!!!
What cracks me up about this is that the OWS protesters always think that everyone else is going to follow their script. That script is, "Heroic American citizens revolt, everyone stands around amazed and eventually joins them" or maybe (what we see in oakland) "Heroic Americans revolt, evil cops beat them up, the world rises up in solidarity" The OWS script doesn't include the NYPD doing stuff that is actually pretty clever. Apparently the OWS never dreamed that homeless drunks wouldn't fall into line with their shining new religion as well. Why won't the NYPD follow the script? Why won't the homeless follow the script???? No fair!!!
"Build it, and they will come."
My wife did a stint serving the homeless as part of a "public service" requirement for her masters, and she took the time to speak to many of them directly. Many said they were from out of town and had come specifically because the "grapevine" reported our town had particularly good accommodations and services for the homeless.
My wife also reported there ARE in fact a good number of the homeless in our town who CHOOSE not to work. Several told her [paraphrasing] "Why should I get back on the treadmill? I don't need much, and am able to get everything I need."
Until such time as we can find a way to limit the services to the local population, my wife is now opposed to providing more.
Incentives my dear Rico, Even those of which your wife disagrees with would do what they can if they knew their efforts were put towards helping someone. Please look into their eyes, and you will see that they would do so much more then anyone would who is not from the depth of survival with each moment. better to have your hand in theirs at a moment of shocking realization that all is not fabricated but organic.
Honestly, so long as they don't do shit, we feed, shelter them, it's not that bad.
They crossed that line 2 weeks after 9-11 when NYC firefighters had to riot against them in an effort to see due process for their hundreds of murdered bretheren. NYC peace movement had to have been infiltrated to NOT be there in support of the firefighters.
Here is a link about that riot. People need to realize there is a group within many cities police forces that do not give a damm about the constitution, due process or rights.------
http://bluecollarpolitics.com/lederman/giuliani-fdny-riot-wtc.html
Realize that google would not find that link for me. Now you see collusion between corporate internet giants and the infiltrated government.
Form your own government and bill of rights within the camp for policing behavior. Dispense spontaneous beat downs on those who violate the 'laws.' They'll move on when you start sending them back to their alleys with bruises, steal their drugs and flush it into the sewers.
Too bad OWS hates liberty so much they'd probably just beat down anyone with different views, same as this forum, the livestream, and the IRC.
Looks like the trolls like the police tactics.
Back in the day, labor knew how to break a nose when it was called for. Builds unity and community bonds of brotherhood. Welcome those who want to join the movement with open arms, and protect the rights of people to express themselves and be heard no matter what their opinion, but lay down the law when it needs to be laid down. Don't be too soft or too hard. Get a guy in a tent and rough him up, and he'll get the message.
Well NYPD has a sense of humor. Sorry, but this is hysterical. But what is funnier are the posts on there insisting that the cops just don't understand that they are you. Quit telling people that. I've met plenty of NYPD officers and detectives. These guys are not stupid- they are completely capable of discerning what they want. Recently my friend who is a NY police detective said he does agree with a lot from OWS- he just can't stand the people who are participating. This cause needs to be repackaged. think like the corporations, just don't be one.
Do we serve alcohol at the park? Where? I could use a beer.
Aren't you fighting for the 99%? I think that the cops did you a favor, sent you two more of the 99%.
Why are you complaining?
Where did I complain??? Just wanted the folks to understand what the NYPD was doing.These people need help but we have slammed the door in their faces. Now the cops are using them to disrupt the protest. Evil!!!!
Well why aren't drunks allowed to be part of the 99%?
Did you even read my comment you replied to??? Of course not, you must be here to undermine not to understand.
Greed, lol, I agree with your sentiments, but at this point: Unhinge Jaw, Remove Foot.
Why shouldn't drunks be considered part of the 99%? They are. But Drunks probably need more help then your average Hunkered down protestor can give..... "Scchhcush meh? Canz I burruw yer blanket?" "Uhhh, sure, just watch out for the Gas Grenades!" "Shur ting doooood....... zzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZ"...... Nuff said....
My father was a alcoholic and my older brother suffers from the same disease. I understand the problems these people deal with everyday. Because they have an addiction they should NOT be used as pawns by the NYPD. SMH!!!!
whoa whoa whoa, calm down boys, no need to get in a tiff. Lets just try to understand each other right?
Greed just thinks the actions of the NYPD are deplorable, which they are, if they are in fact doing that, which all evidence points to. We can all accept that yes? He might be a little overzealous, but hes here for the same reason most of us, are to see how this plays out and say his piece.
After that, I will say that considerations aside, Alcoholism, last I knew, was labeled as an Affliction, as is any Addiction. Cigerattes, video games, sex, even power boating.... All have had people addicted to them..... The problem isn't the activity (Except in specifically detrimental ones), its the neurological "highs" gained from the activity (Not that drinking specifically gives people a high, but it can spike certain brain chemicals the same as any other addiction). I believe the DSM V will have a mention of Addictions, though as it hasn't been printed yet, I don't know for sure....
Regardless, drunk people are not who you want in a park surrounded by police, and if the police tear gas it, or confront them @ Zucotti, what they're doing would be down right irresponsible, and a deriliction of duty. You can't protect people if you're putting them in front of Gas Grenade Launchers, Rubber Bullets, or Batons....
I did read it. You said "we", which I assume to mean the OWS protest, "have slammed the door in their faces". which I assume mean they aren't welcome there any more. Why aren't they allowed there anymore? Sure if they were sent there as secret agents of distruction, I understand, but I figured you ment all drunks. And by the way, I hear homeless as well.
We as a nation have slammed the door on the homeless, mentally ill and the disabled. Alcoholism is a disease and should be treated as such.
oh alright. Personally, I don't considder alcholism is a diseas as you cause it yourself, but thank you for clearing that up
What drives addicts to repeatedly choose drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, overeating, gambling or kleptomania, despite the risks involved? Neuroscientists at the University of California, Berkeley, have pinpointed the exact locations in the brain where calculations are made that can result in addictive and compulsive behavior.
UC Berkeley researchers have found how neural activity in the brain’s orbitofrontal and anterior cingulate cortex regulates our choices. These astonishing new findings could pave the way for more targeted treatments for everything from drug and alcohol abuse to obsessive-compulsive disorders.
‘The better we understand our decision-making brain circuitry, the better we can target treatment, whether it’s pharmaceutical, behavioral or deep brain stimulation,” said Jonathan Wallis, associate professor of psychology and neuroscience at UC Berkeley and the principal investigator of the study published in the Oct. 30 online issue of the journal Nature Neuroscience. (SNIP)
In the new study, he and fellow researchers targeted the orbitofrontal cortex and anterior cingulate cortex –- two areas in the frontal brain — because previous research has shown that patients with damage to these areas of the brain are impaired in the choices they make. While these individuals may appear perfectly normal on the surface, they routinely make decisions that create chaos in their lives. A similar dynamic has been observed in chronic drug addicts, alcoholics and people with obsessive-compulsive tendencies.
http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/10/30/addicted-brain/