Forum Post: NYCGA is run by an oligarchy
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 12:49 a.m. EST by publicus1
(125)
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The NYCGA has deleted our working group because it was getting to much attention and the oligarchy that runs the NYCGA does not agree with issues raised by the working. The NYCGA is completely antidemocratic and has been co-opted by anarchists and other who do not believe in free speech or democracy.
See for yourself. https://www.nycga.net/groups/the-99-declaration/forum/
It is extremely difficult for a group whose basic values include being open and welcoming to all is faced with a group of people who say that they want to be part of that group but who do not share those values.
I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the 99% Declaration is a copywrited document.
It is also my understanding that the 99% Declaration rejects consensus decision making which is one of the fundamental organizing principles of OWS.
What I do know for a fact is what the 99% Declaration actually says. It is calling for a national convention not based on the local General Assemblies. It is calling for a national convention that would be by definition exclusionary and unrepresentative. In its call for a national convention that would specifically exclude minors and noncitizens either in terms of their voting rights or their right to serve as delegates.
All of this, it seems to me, is profoundly contrary to OWS values and principles. There would be no issue here if we were a group that advocated fascism or was openly hostile to racial or gender equality. The undemocratic values of the 99% Declaration are perhaps not so blatant, but the principle is the same.
I think you nailed it,. the "proposal" just does not fit. While many of the "grievances" are well intended, the main point of the national representative structure is the very same as the current congress /senate type representative system, easily corrupted and non-democratic.
The 99% Declaration doesn't have grievances. It has a list of demands. Indeed the stated purpose of the group was a felt need on their part for OWS to have specific demands. While up front, the proposal for a national convention seems to be something of an afterthought. While not in principle opposed to demands per se it has been the general position of the NYC GA that they are not only unnecessary but that what we want is so comprehensive that no demand or set of demands would be adequate to articulate that and finally demands as such tend to be divisive. This last point seems to be verified by the fact that the Demands working group at the NYC GA is having considerable in agreeing on a set of demands even within its own group, which in principle supports the idea of specific demands.
"the Working Group on the 99% Declaration, shall draft a suggested list of grievances to be respectfully submitted to the Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY no later than"
From the document. They call them "grievances".
OK. But it's really odd that the 99% Declaration should call for a suggested list of grievances when the Declaration of the Occupation of New York, already passed by the NYC GA (no easy task as anyone who has ever attended a GA will attest) already has a comprehensive list of 22 grievances. What's the matter with them? As I recall the 99% Declaration doesn't say.
Why would you allow non-citizens to vote? Or minors for that matter.
I find it horribly offensive and antithetical to the values of OWS, but the fact is the 99% Declaration specifically excludes minors and noncitizens from its decision making process, which to me is its single most offensive characteristic. The notion of getting representatives from every Congressional District in less than 9 months is also singularly nutty since there is not a GA much less an occupation in most Congressional Districts at this point.
OWS as a whole is nutty but thats beside the point. If a non-citizen wants to vote them let them become a citizen. If not then they can go back to their own country and vote there. As for minors,where do you draw the line? Are you seriously saying a 10 yr old should be allowed to vote?
The point is the 99% Declaration has been specifically rejected by the NYC GA. Probably, if you think OWS is nutty I suspect you might actually like the folks around the 99% document. But no thanks, not for me, though nothing is carved in granite and I could be convinced other wise.
Nice dodge.
Oligarchy (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία, oligarkhía[1]) is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with an elite class distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, commercial, and/or military legitimacy. The word oligarchy is derived from the Greek words "ὀλίγος" (olígos), "a few"[2] and the verb "ἄρχω" (archo), "to rule, to govern, to command"
publicus1 , don't you see that until you (personally) are in solidarity with the 99% ... what are proposing can only turn into an Oligarchy itself... you must share power & leadership ... that is why you let a simple mistake drive you crazy... slow down take the time to learn the movement... everything will fall into place... otherwise you will have a long hard lonely battle which will end in failure... see the truth... speak the truth...
Brad we are proposing a democratic election of 870 people from all over the country. We are also now considering adding voting delegates from DC and the territories. This is the opposite of oligarchy who self appoint themselves to power and maintain that power in a small group
M.... don't you get it yet... first, you will get no-where here with your continuous comments relating OWS & NYCGA to Oligarchy....
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NYCGA?, Wake up!! the entire frickin country is a Oligarchy!! There is no democracy any longer.. or perhaps some would argue, there never was.
Well those are strong allegations. Who was in this working group? Was there any reason given or dialogue prior to deletion?
What you are proposing is using the same old system; a representative republic. This is just giving your vote over to a proxy who is then expected to represent hundreds of thousands of actual people.
The petition of grievances you have is interesting, however should you not just be working with the demands working group??
I have to say I don't agree with 1/2 the declaration on that list. Perhaps there was no consensus for them. What was the process that came up with the-99-declaration? Was there a majority for in favor of it?
Frankly, on reading through it 1/2 of it sounds like Ron Lawl propaganda, the end the Fed and cut the debt parts especially.
The problems are unemployment, lack of economic growth, and an elected government (all 3 branches) that is controlled by corporations and out of touch with the majority.
The Declaration clearly states that the list of grievances is only suggested. The final List Of Grievances is to be voted on at the NGA. The delegates would fine tune the mechanisms to create the list?
theghostofthomasjefferson agrees with you and i'm willing to agree with him. Plublicus1 states that it's a suggested List of Grievances and irrelevant, Ghost thinks the one demand is, as you and almost everyone seems to mention, "end the corrupting influence of money in politics. " (scroll up to see his whole comment.) It made me think.
Please understand that the 21 points in the declaration are irrelevant. They are only suggestions for a petition for a redress of grievances that will be drafted and ratified by the elected National General Assembly. The only question is: do you agree that a National General Assembly should meet and deliver a petition of grievances to the government. www.the99declaration.org
That is the problem your proposing what already exists; representative proxy voting. That is a thoroughly dis-empowering system, and very counter to this movement. Many of your points are good and should be shared in the demands working group.
I think the99declaration.org got coopted by the Ron Lawl and Billionaire Kochs. Do you really think 99% of people care about the FED? They care about putting food on the table for their kids! Abolishing the Fed is a Koch Tea party agenda. If they could abolish the Supreme Court, they would do the same.
More info? What was your group doing?
what is the name of the working group?
That's not right. They should've been adding some input while you guys were working on it, not wait until you were done then throw it out because they don't like it.
So who is now Lord of the Flies?
I find it funny how OWS rages against the elite but yet you all consider yourselves the elite. Irony at its best.
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who are these six people?
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It seems the page has been deleted.
the 99%Declaration is also on the Adbusters site. https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/?tmpl=%2Fsystem%2Fapp%2Ftemplates%2Fprint%2F&showPrintDialog=1
No is not. I had not even heard about AD Busters. It is a google site I made.
If you are the author of The 99% Declaration, then my thanks to you for the education. Perhaps you authored this as well? http://thedeclarationofdesperation.wordpress.com/
No, I wrote the Declaration of Desperation. I believe the 99% Declaration is an ineffective document. The Occupy Movement will fail if it is adopted. For it will alienate the American People.
This is not a question of politics, of right or wrong. This is a question of intelligence. We must be smart. We enjoy popular support, for now. But to preserve America's good will, we must keep our demands narrow: end the corrupting influence of money in politics. That is something a majority of Americans can get behind. That is something a social movement can achieve. And then, and only then, can the other issues be successfully pursued.
In fact I've already seen evidence of this in some replies I've been getting. I see what you're getting at, the 99 Declaration List Of Grievances could go on forever and still people will not be satisfied. The goal is to get 99% of the 99% supporting a clear demand? Yes OK, so is the process outlined in the 99 Declaration an effective way to deliver the message? Seems to me it is: unlike what you had to deal with in Suffolk, the legal mechanisms are in place to "debug the house" and the message at the end of the 99 Declaration clearly states the resolve of the 99%.
I appreciate your dedication and efforts. Thank you. Would you prefer to continue this @wordpress?
sorry, i should have said there is a link to your site on the Adbusters website: http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/future-occupy.html
yes but so what; we have likes all over the net, we do not endorse any of them. the 99% declaration stands on it's own and you can either agree with the concept of holding a National General Assembly before the 2012 election or you can reject it and focus your energies elsewhere. We think that #OWS has created a once in a generation to effect real permanent change and remove the corporate state but the time to take advantage of this window if running out.
Let's travel to Canada, and Occupy Adbusters!
OWS is like a newborn horse, a foal. A foal takes eleven months to develope in the mare because it has to be able to stand up and run for it's life if need be. They are up and nursing in an hour or three. OWS has been eleven years in the making, some would say three or four decades. But here it is thankfully, up and latched. The herd can sense the dangers. The foal knows nothing about panic until the mare bolts...
OWS has to run now. The occupation of land is a powerful symbol like a shot across the bow of the battleship TPTB (the powers that be). Sitting there just firing shots and expecting your supporters to remain there freezing seems cruel. They will quietly go awol and OWS will start to see it's short life flash before it's eyes. Those that remain will experience great pain.
The 1% and the wanna be 1% would like nothing better than to see this fail. 99% don't. It's up to the herd to show OWS where to run. The 99% Declaration is the only (legal) path out of this lush meadow (trap)
OWS will field the National General Assembly or perish. Farewell.
How is that one proposal for a national proxy representative vote "the only (legal) path" ? It really seems to miss the mark.
Things are evolving quickly. The 99% Declaration is on the table with other ideas that are coming in every day (Virtual National Assembly, Declaration of Desperation, others?). So let me rephrase that: "the only (legal) path I've seen so far." I can agree that it's not THE perfect solution so let's talk about everything on the table. Cut and Paste, mold a new reality, and reach a consensus. Get ready to take OWS to the next level. --------------
As far as rep proxy voting, it's thoroughly dis-empowering only when voter apathy rules the day. I think their are many better examples of "thoroughly dis-empowering" in the world. I think the "We.Are.The 99%" evokes the power of the ballot box, and that's something the movement should be able to reach a consensus on:-------------
I'm a farmer. I know a good machine from a crappy one (read Egypt). But a good machine in the hands of a lousy operator leads to damaged equipment and loss of crop leading to hunger and debts. We're coming out with better machines all the time but keeping the machine i have running productively means i can aquire a state-of-the-art machine sooner. So let's fix the machine we have (the ballot box is your tool box) and then discuss the new machine.
new york city gynecological association?
So is America.
Some working groups are more equal than others.
Kill the oligarchs! Now!