Forum Post: Not paying your mortgages
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 19, 2011, 11:53 p.m. EST by vietboy11
(13)
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Hello Brothers & Sisters
I admire your dedication. Here is another approach to get the attention of the Wall Street people.
If we can broadcast to ALL homeowners (or mortgage holders) to NOT paying their mortgages for 1 month (preferably December). Use the money to do Xmas shopping or treat themselves something nice. That would make a big dent to the bottom line of all the banks. What could have happened to the homeowner? My guess is nothing. Banks don't have enough resources or reasons to go after these homeowners for just a 1-month delinquent. So what if a few points dropped in their FICO score? Bankers are greedy. We must let them know that they are working for the majority and not the other way around.
Thank you DH
So you're saying that people should just back out of their agreements when they feel like it?
Not exactly. The banks asked for help money with the promises that they would start lending again. Did they honored their promises to the government and the tax payers? Not quite. So, we, as consumers, shouldn't have to honor our promises until they do. Make sense?
I see the point, but regardless of another persons' actions, as an ethical person I should honor my agreements with another person
Scores of people keep pointing that out to the scores of people who keep suggesting skipping out on their debts. Taking money from somebody and promising to pay them back and then just skipping out and keeping the money is called "stealing". Proposing theft from banks discredits this movement's accusations of unethical behavior from the banks.
Read my recent response just above.
Points well taken. However, there are times when one shall drop the rule book and play by whatever street rules that applied in certain situation. For example, if President Obama played by the honor rules, then he would never be able to kill Bin Laden. Get it? When enough is enough, it's time to take the right action.
If you're trying to rationalize a way to justify unethical behavior then that doesnt say good things about you as a person. If you're suggesting that this movement should rationalize justifications that will supposedly justify unethical behavior in other people against banks, then you must have somehow forgotten that this is a protest against unethical behavior. The rest of the 99% are not going to join you in destroying their own credit scores, and if this became Occupy Wall Street's message then the movement would be self-discrediting.
Well, how can I explain this in a clearer way? Lets say a friend borrowed money from you, promised to return it to you in a week and failed to keep his/her word, would you lend this friend money again the next time? Sometime, it's just doesn't make sense to "show the other cheek". I guess you'll learn that in life later.
Somebody who does that is not a friend, so no. I would not. This must be a difficult concept to understand from the point of view of the freeloader.
well yes. I would like a bailout. trillions to the banks and nothing to me? i need it more im thinking.
NO. I will NOT do this.
PAY YOUR MORTGAGES.
I will never endorse this. Not even for one month.
This is the crap that shows me how misguided this whole movement is and makes me want to give up hope you'll ever accomplish anything.
Nonsense.
OK, then pay your mortgage. I am not with the movement or one of the OWS. I am just suggesting a way to teach the bankers a valuable lesson. That is they have to work with us.
Loll refuse to pay mortgages and fees that you promised you would pay? No one forced you to get a loan. You can rent you know?
You certainly are missing the point here. Banks should work for us, not the other way around. One way to let them know that fact is to "stop paying mortgage" for 1 month. They surely will feel the pain. Just like us now. Why don't you try to get a loan from the bank now and see how tough it is?
Banks would work for us if our representatives did. Which is why we should be focusing on them.
Duh.
But you will still owe the payment, you'd just be behind a month (if you're current). Doesn't make sense to me to pay fees and penalties when I'll just have to make the mortgage payment eventually. Shelter is a basic need. It's hard to rent if you're credit is bad, at least somewhere decent. Plus, I agree with those who commented about being ethical. So long as I can afford to pay any debt I have, I will. If I can not afford to pay, honestly, and truly, that's one thing and I have to do what I have to do. Otherwise, I will continue to pay my bills. I really think this is one of the really bad ideas that has been suggested here, and I'm not blaming the OP, I've seen it mentioned several times.
Banks should not work for us. They are a company, not the govt. The govt works for us, no one else. And I sell Real Estate, you need a 580 credit score and 3.5% down to get the lowest interest rate in history. You can have previous foreclosures, short sales or bankruptcies.
Don't dream. Nobody can get a loan with 580 FICO score. If you can make it happens, you are running a scam. Period.
I was just going to say the same thing. Maybe you might get a mortgage, and that's a big maybe, but your interest rate would be significantly higher,
Straight FHA is 620 call any lender. And you can get 5.5% loans with 580. Call your local bank and ask.
Yeaaaa, that could work, except there are lots of folks not behind on their bills and who have excellent credit, soooo why would they do that?
Many people play by the rules. They pay bills on time, obey orders and rewarded with excellent FICO scores. Good for them. So, why do they have to bail the banks out? Why do they pay increased tax to help the banks and the top executives, who failed to perform their duties? Why are there many people stopping their lives and going to Wall Street to protest? It's for a good cause and to tell the bankers to stop screwing up. And never say never, the good folks with excellent FICO scores may not have the jobs tomorrow and they maybe in the same boats as many poor folks are in now and not getting any helps from the bankers.
Real small fraction of the overall populace protesting, sorry just the reality, thats why we have a democratic system by witch we can elect new representatives, many hard working people dont agree with what has been going on but they would not be willing to throw their own fiscal well being to the wind for this sort of action, just sayin, there are lots of sides to this, in a democratic republic such as ours a majority rules even if it is 51% thats still over half the people onboard, can OWS GET 51% of the vote?
Dude, most homeowners under water haven't made a payment in years. The banks are stalling. Extend and pretend.
Broadcast the idea and don't pay your mortgage in December. Buy you and your family a nice Xmas. Forget the banks. They can't foreclose the entire nation.
I think you have a bully pulpit, you do not need to resort to tactics like this. What you are suggesting would be viewed negatively by a lot of good people, reneging on you commitments is uncool. It'd be better to use that bully pulpit to project a crisp clear singular message that resonates with 99% +. Here are some different phrasings of what i think that message could be...
"Get big money out of politics."
"Money is not be the predominant factor in politics."
"People elect presidents, not corporations." // dbl meaning in that one, but less clear
You guys could send an open letter to the current presidential candidates asking them for a show of good faith along those lines. Is it a matter of public record how much each candidate has received in campaign contributions from the big wallstreet firms and banks? Ask them to return those contributions as a show of good faith. The intent of their campaigning is to earn your vote. Explain to them that they can do so without the benefit of that money, and in fact, that returning that money will help to earn your vote.
For as long as the financial people are still in control and their bottom lines not hurt, they won't listen to little people. They will listen if they are facing big revenue loss, i.e. not able to collect mortgage payments from homeowners, nation-wide. Can they foreclose the entire nation? Probably not. Politicians are fed mostly by the 1%. So, most politicians will listen to the 1%. The good politicians are the minority in Washington so they can't help much.
MERS (Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, Inc.) has done a terrible job at tracking mortgage ownership. Because hundreds of sub-prime mortgages where bundled in sub-prime products, it makes knowing who the actual owner of the mortgage almost impossible. These two facts could be used as a leveraging tool for homeowners facing eviction/foreclosure. If the bank cannot prove ownership of the mortgage, they cannot foreclose, evict or demand payment. Why don't we have an Occupy Mortgages where volunteer homeowners facing foreclosure/eviction invite protesters with legal and financial knowledge to occupy their home? The local occupy movement could also provide help. And, in the event that the family is forced to vacate, perhaps some local occupy folks could invite them to occupy their homes. Or, perhaps the local occupy movement would come up with their own solution.
It might take a few years, but you WILL lose your house. Your credit WILL be shot. You WON'T be able to buy a house for many years. If you think the economy is bad now, you've just found a way to sink it even more.
Bankers provide you with MONEY. If you don't need MONEY, or don't want MONEY, then stop asking for it.
If I had my home foreclosed I'd just file for bankruptcy and pay rent instead.
What a moron.
When you signed the mortgage papers you agreed to pay the debt. Man up and keep your promise. This is part of being a "grown up."
When you signed the mortgage papers you agreed to pay the debt. Man up and keep your promise. This is part of being a "grown up."
I can't even afford my own home. And I have a full-time job, and decent credit! lol. That is why I joined the OWS. Minimum wage is a joke, and is not nearly enough for a person to live on. Nobody who works full time should EVER be this poor.
Then spread the news and encourage the others to join the protest. Don't pay mortgage in December. Buy Xmas for your family.
if its done in unison and on a well documented day.
Know what else will work if it is done is unison?
WRITING YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.
These childish, tantrum style antics:
Throwing paper airplanes, bailing on work, not paying your mortgages
are what's turning this movement into a failure.
None of the things you are doing will effect real change. You're just trashing your credit score for nothing. And shirking your responsibilities.
I thought that OWS was against irresponsibility.... ?
This one, selfish, misguided opportunist doesn't represent the movement in general. He does represent an extreme form of cluelessness, but he doesn't represent Occupy Wall Street.
The fact that nobody represents Occupy Wall Street reveals an additional layer of cluelessness in this guy. He's imagining coordinated action toward a single goal from an organization with no organization and with only one goal: to avoid focusing on any one goal. There are many variants of this common form of cluelessness on this site.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm frustrated to the point of exhaustion with this whole mess.
Its all monumentally disappointing, really.
why not, right? Hope somebody who work in the media read and support the idea.
that would certainly boost christmas sales
'corse living in a single bedroom
I don't need more junk
or go to a nice restaurant and treat yourself and your loved ones a nice dinner. no junk.
Why would you need to skip a mortgage payment to get a nice dinner from a restaurant. A person with your system of ethics can just dine and dash. Eat your food and then run away without paying when they bring you your check. If you can get everybody in the restaurant to do it all at the same time then you won't all get caught, and not getting caught makes it okay, right?
There are easy ways to learn and there are hard ways to learn. Your analogy is not appropriate in this case. Why do people strike, or form a picket line? Why do people protest? They all want to make their points and be heard. Understand. Maybe if you think about it a bit more carefully and from both sides of the coin, then you will comprehend a bit more.
Can't you make your point heard, and understood, by dining and dashing? Just do it at restaurants owned by big corporations, right? A sufficiently self-serving protester could see that as a political demonstration. Plus -- FREE FOOD!!
For real? Missing a payment does not chage the amount you owe.
If you want to screw the banks, elect leaders who will abolish the Fed and let cogresss print currency
people could start refusing to buy products or goods or services from any place that the banks have interest or own shares in. It might not be a big dent at first but after a while it could cripple the economy. I don't know how it could be done, but it's an idea anyway. Maybe create bartering centers? People could find a way to stop the flow of money somehow.
Lets be smart about how we sacrifice ourselves for the cause.
I for one have been protesting against the the meat, dairy and process food industries, corporate hospitals, and the pharmaceutical industries. I have successfully taken monies from these industries on a continual basis! And I am winning!
How? I only eat plant based foods. I have lowered my cholesterol and sugar levels and my weight. This lifestyle will also lower greatly my chance of dying from cancer. I'm spending less money on doctor bills and my health has improved so much that I have dropped all my expensive medications. Man I feel GREAT!
These industries are using us like cash cows. They brainwash us to eat more and more to increase their profits. Eventually we become fat and sick and shell more cash out to the doctors and hospitals. Your doctor will prescribe medication that will mask your symptoms but will destroy you livers. That is a sick way to live your life. WAKE UP PEOPLE. Keep more of your money and increase your health. If everyone eat plant based foods we will bankrupt these industries and decrease environmental pollution and animal abuse from factory farms and you will look good and enjoy great health!
Here's an excerpt from Democracy Now!
Bush signed a $190 billion farm bill. Under the 10 year program, taxpayers will pay farmers $4 billion a year to grow more corn. The people who benefit from the production of corn are not the farmers, but the processors, factory farms, snack and soft drink makers, who have switched from using sugar to corn sweeteners. Writer Michael Pollan points out in an op-ed piece in the New York Times/ that our diet has undergone a process of "cornification" in recent years, just as the epidemic of obesity and Type 2 diabetes swept the country.
So, you advocate not paying your mortgage, a debt you voluntarily acquired, and then want to complain when the bank forecloses on the collateral?
Yeah, that makes sense.
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Hey everybody! Rather than abiding by the contrcts you signed, why don't you use your money to buy shit for the house! Then, when they reposes your house becuase you didn't pay, you can have cool shit like I-pods, X-Boxes and 3G phones
Great idea...default on a loan then cry when they take your house all the while spending money on X-mas by buying things from the very corporations you are protesting.....VERY hypocritical OWS'ers!
how short sighted you are!!!. Will you lose your house with a missed payment? You spend that money for yourself or your loved ones who maybe working for the companies you are buying products from. Hence, stimulating the economy and help keeping your job.
You got me...so support consumerism by buying things for yourself and others...I get it now.
If we don't buy Lamborghini's for a month, will their price go down? I am planning on doing this. It'll be hard for me, but I think it's possible.
Thank you for the support.
VERY good idea! Hell, they should stop paying credit card bills and any other loans they have.
Why stop at not paying mortgages?
Any and all taxation that can be refused should be. A general strike could really get the message out to the enemy that their game's done.
What would help is to overcome the image of wannabe hippies and cryptomarxist union members that is being imposed from without and generated from within certain participants of OWS.
BTW I am from the Freedom Movement and although certain participants mistakenly wanting more power for the federal government and Obama reelected raises hackles, I support the movement as a catalyst to awakening America. Finally.
I do hope someone from the media can read our posts and somehow convey the ideas to the general public. I love the USA. But the bankers are the enemies. They can't stop to being too greedy. What about the "Give and Receive" concept that many of us have been taught.
The people who did this would see their credit rating tank. I can't imagine rational people doing this.
Aren't the banks' rating already downgraded? Why don't they care? Why do you care? Banks don't lend any money to consumer now anyway. So, your 600+ credit rating don't give you any benefit. If you want banks work with you, try high 700+.
Plenty of people with good credit still get loans. Banks are just much more selective now. All the more reason why letting your credit score tank is a very foolish idea. People can do it all they want though, I don't care, it just makes people with good credit scores have even more options. Remember, banks want to loan money, that's how they make money. They just aren't going to do it recklessly as much in this economy.
If you are focusing on the majority, which the banks should, then being super selective of who they are lending to is a foolish business way. The number of people with the super good credit rating is very small, and beside, they don't need to borrow money. People who need to borrow often don't have very good credit score, for whatever the reason, and they are the ones who make good money for the banks.
I am sure the banks would love to lend to everyone but it is just too risky in this unstable economy. They would rather sit on money than loose it.
And people with good credit and excess money to spend use loans all the time. Say I have returned 7% a year in my portfolio over the last 15 years any my good credit gets me 1.9% on a new car loan. I could pay cash but why would I? I am better off making the monthly payments and keeping the extra cash in my portfolio. Obviously it is a balancing act but for most people with money, the ideal credit utilization is something above 0%.
People should do this, and save/invest the money instead of buying xmas presents. Have a cheap xmas!
Spread the words to whoever you can. Thanks for the support.
Do I hear TREATyoself 2011?!?!?!
Or save it for the rainy days. Thanks for the support