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Forum Post: Not just by debt, but by its ignorance. America is about to be crushed. OWS doesn't want you to know

Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 29, 2012, 9:25 p.m. EST by jcorzine (0)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Strong delusion intoxicates America. I have never heard so many people sound so dogmatically self-righteous in their opinion that more spending—government and private—would fix things.

The argument was that if everyone just started spending more money, then more jobs would be created and America’s economic problems would be solved.

Sounds deceptively logical.

Gary Burtless, a former Labor Department economist, articulates: “We want to spend money. We want to create demand for businesses so that they want to add to their payroll” (emphasis added).

Ah. But there are two types of demand. There is the good consumer demand, powered by savings—and the other kind, driven by deficit spending. One is sustainable. The other causes bubbles, and ultimately bankruptcy.

In case there is any question, America is expert at the latter. And a blowup is looming.

Yet most Americans remain clueless. Burtless says the government should take advantage of its borrowing ability to stimulate the economy. “The world is willing to buy government debt, and the government—if it’s willing to spend this money—can create additional demand to put people to work,” he says.

What Burtless conveniently doesn’t say is what happens after the government has spent all its borrowed money. Or what happens when already-debt-saturated consumers further indebt themselves.

What lasting benefit will America receive for indenturing its taxpayers? Will repaving America’s roads make America that much more efficient? Will shinier Chinese-made bridges increase our productivity? Will the latest iPhone make workers more proficient (or, actually, more distracted)?

In reality, once the money is spent, America will just be back to where it began—only with a lot more debt.

In other words, America will be worse off.

The problem is that today, America is already worse off. Deficit spending has been America’s modus operandi for decades.

Remember the savings and loan crisis? The solution: Borrow money to throw at it. Dot-com bust? Borrow and spend more money. Housing bubble pops and banking sector fails? Borrow and spend even more.

Why is it so hard to connect the dots? The supposed solution is the cause.

The truth is that there is no easy way out of America’s predicament. America has spent tomorrow’s money. It has spent next week’s and next year’s money. It has spent its grandchildren’s money too. It has spent money it does not have and never will have.

In addition to the money America has stolen from its own children, it has also spent a couple trillion worth of China’s money. It has squandered several hundred billion worth of Japan’s. Saudi Arabia’s billions are long gone, as is the money America borrowed from Mexico.

Yes, Mexico—America has been reduced to borrowing tens of billions from a country that many Americans consider its poor, underdeveloped neighbor. America borrows tens of billions from Thailand too. And billions from Malaysia.

And it has done this all in a vain effort to prop up an economy that is founded on over-consumption and debt—the opposite of what a stable economy should be founded on.

America has forgotten that it is hard work and savings—not deficit spending—that makes an economy successful. It is savings that drives investment. Savings drives growth. Savings makes prosperity possible.

Just look where the decades of deficit spending have gotten us.

America’s default on the gold standard in 1971 was a fulcrum in U.S. economics. America had been trending as a nation of savers and producers. This country was literally the world’s marketplace, dominating global trade and manufacturing. America was an established net lender, lending other nations far more money than it borrowed. And America’s middle class? The largest and richest in history. Employers couldn’t get enough workers. A short decade and a half after the end of the gold standard, the wealthiest, most powerful country on Earth was reduced to a net debtor.

But look at America now.

The world’s richest nation now finds itself in the ignominious position of the world’s largest debtor. The jobs are gone. Debt payments are draining the life out of the economy. And the dollar, which used to be “good as gold,” is now a debased and increasingly discredited currency.

Meanwhile, the “patriotic” consumer ignorantly continues the impossible task of spending his way to prosperity.

America is about to be crushed. Not just by debt, but by its ignorance. There are both economic and moral laws that when upheld result in prosperity—and America is breaking them all. •

26 Comments

26 Comments


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[-] 5 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 12 years ago

You touched on the big issue. When you say"dominating global trade and manufacturing", you are in the ballpark. The main thing that has happened is that the balance of trade has reversed. The US WAS a net exporter. It is now a net importer. It has the largest trade deficit in the world, which represents the largest transfer of wealth in human history. Deficit spending is more a result of this than a cause.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 12 years ago

America did NOT cause this DEBT .... a bunch of CORRUPT criminal bankers and CORRUPT criminal members of congress did...

and they FORCED the "People of America" to cover their loses .... Ass Hole...

now the ONLY way we are going to recover the economy enough ... to cover YOUR loses .. is thru INVESTING into the MIDDLE Class economy ... because the majority of the UPPER Class are too stupid to care...

and that takes spending ... IDIOT ... do you have a Better Answer ???

[-] 2 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Very true what you have stated. But it is falling on "deaf ears". People think that the government can "spend its way out of depression" when in fact after that money is gone as you stated, we are further in debt.

People just don't care - they want the government to take care of them and they want all the conviences to go along with it.

Apple just reported a net worth of over 8 billion - why - because the vast majority of the people who think appler products are the greatest thing since sliced bread are continually "suckered" into buying their next latest greatest product.

Every six months they come out with a better product then the last. Everyone wants one so what to they do, abandon the one they have so they can have the next fastest electromechanical device. 3 seconds faster does not justify spending another three or four houndered dollars just to be like those in the commercial.

I will be willing to bet that the vast majority of apple Ipod owners spend at least 1500 a year on their electronic devices.

It isn't going to change because the vast majority of our younger generation has been brainwashed into thinking otherwise.

[-] 1 points by Umair (24) 12 years ago

You make a very good point. America will be crushed by its debt if it can't stop the spending money it doesn't have. But did you consider what would happen if it didn't spend money in times of crisis. What people don't understand is globally speaking, housing is far cheaper than it is America. If we continue to overvalue the housing, than it will only lead us into greater debt. Workers in other countries don't have to worry about paying a $2500+ mortgage so they can afford to ask for less money. The entire system is broken and needs to be improved continuously just like the kaizen philosophy dictates. Making dramatic changes immediately and not worrying about the results for a few years until the problem comes back isn't the right way. We should be preempt these problems all the time so we can reduce the suffering that will be coming and might even eliminate it.

I barely have any debt and don't buy crap I don't need. I certainly didn't need to buy a house that cost $550,000+ in 2006 but cost nearly half that just 5 years ago. I'm stupid enough to think that it would keep appreciating in value at that rate forever. No. I don't need a goddamn new iPhone the day it comes out. I probably won't even buy a phone unless it's a $100 or less with a contract. I don't get fascinated by new shiny things that easily but that isn't the way everybody is wired. But like I said, I barely owe $5000 and that includes student debt.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

"America has forgotten that it is hard work and savings—not deficit spending—that makes an economy successful. It is savings that drives investment. Savings drives growth. Savings makes prosperity possible."

what is tax?

I'm tired of these freeloaders that think civilization cost nothing

[-] 1 points by corralled (23) 12 years ago

They'll never see it Even if you tell them show them prove to them They will deny it

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

"prop up an economy that is founded on over-consumption and debt—the opposite of what a stable economy should be founded on." Exactly.

Why do you say "OWS doesn't want you to know" ? This is exactly what OWS is about, the system of funding the rich by stealing from the many, is a broken system, and this is what we aim to change.

[-] 1 points by TheMisfit (48) 12 years ago

I think they feel OWS doesn't want you to know this because many simply advocate for taxing the rich and having the government spend more. Many at OWS do not seem to understand that with a fiat currency, we can generate more wealth and it is a far better alternative to work to lift everyone up through true prosperity as opposed imply taxing the "evil" rich people. Our corporate tax structure, trade deficit, lack of beneficial tariffs and welfare mentality is sinking this nation fast than Wall Street ever could (not that they want to as they depend on us for their wealth). Unfortunately, today, there seems to be no compromise and a stubborn unwillingness to even consider ideas from those that "are not like us". As such, we have painted ourselves into two or three different corners and unwilling to reach out to others for help. Dems want to simply tax our way to prosperity while Reps want to let the corporations have at it hoping they will somehow bring us all up. Both are far too simplistic to work, but they are what the simpletons in each party want to hear and so it is accepted a gospel truth by the party hacks. Until this political divide is bridged, we will not thrive again.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

Fiat currency is like adding a gallon of water to a gallon of wine. You have twice as much but you have to drink twice as much for the same effect. It creates the illusion of wealth but no real benefit.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

I know it is near dogma to right-wingers to call say dems want to tax, but the two sides to the single party, have been pushing taxes to where they are, not one side or the other. The Dems have not raised taxes since taking over, and bush spent like a drunken sailor, when we was in office. It is not the 'two parties' it is the monetary system itself, and the system that takes from the many to give to the few. Bailouts and military debts, that are added to the public debt, keep compounding interest for your grand kids to pay. These debts are created non-democratically and for the benefit of the 1% Wall St./bankster class. These are illegitimate debts, indentures for future generations.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 12 years ago

it is obvious and simple - we need to spend money putting people back to work building the infrastructure needed for the long term. going into debt to save energy long term is a very good investment. the world is running out of all the resources needed for our silly consumer society - we need to reinvent the system - that will take time and effort = debt. nothing wrong with good debt!

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

When the stock market and housing prices plunged there were huge losses. But there were also huge gains by a very small group who sold just before the drop. All of that money taken out of the economy is what causes recessions and depressions. Money is the lifeblood of an economy and without it becomes ill. The way to regain health is to return a sufficient supply of money back into the economy. Not by printing currency but by freeing up the money that is hoarded at the top. It is the only way to restore health. Tax the rich.

[-] 1 points by TheMisfit (48) 12 years ago

You do realize that with a fiat currency that more wealth can be generated? Instead of simply "tax the rich", why not focus on productive means to create a lasting recovery. Changes to the corporate tax code, tariffs and production incentives will go much further toward a true, lasting, recovery that will benefit all Americans versus your simpleton answer of "tax the rich".

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 12 years ago

Fiat currency does not create wealth, it dilutes all dollar denominated assets. When the economic body has it's lifeblood unevenly distributed to the head, the feet and legs cramp up from lack of blood. Money is the lifeblood in any economy and when it is cut off, the whole body suffers. Eventually revolution will be used to restore it if peaceful means do not.

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 12 years ago

What a bunch of pessimistic crap- might as well just give up, right?

[-] 1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

No, giving up is for wimps - standing up and learning to be "independent" is the direction you need to focus on.

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 12 years ago

I was being sarcastic, douche

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

So was I, dork ( if you want to name call)

[-] 1 points by Pottsandahalf (141) 12 years ago

Then that was pretty cryptic sarcasm

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

So I guess we're even

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 12 years ago

ows DOES want you to know! what do you think is the point of all this?? yes wake up.. see what the future holds if nothing changes.. have you been under a rock scince september? you dont know that the fight is about the wlfare corporations. money in government and trying to change this?

[-] -2 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 12 years ago

And so many people here think that our way to paradise is bigger government and Democrat party control of the country. America is done. Time to start over.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 12 years ago

Why do you put words in the mouths of "so many people here" we can all speak for ourselves thanks.

The two party fascist state is the problem. Representative government is always corrupted. Consensus is the way forward.

[-] -1 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 12 years ago

I agree with the corruption of the two part system. But I am not putting words in anyone's mouth. Many people here do have faith in the democrats.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 12 years ago

I dont. Politicians are worse than lawyers. Lawyers actually have laws to follow. Politicians fucking make them up as they please.

A national consensus based system is the way to go. Politicians will still exist I suppose, but more people will have more freedom to choose the policies they support...

Government should move towards the iTunes model (so to speak) rather than the crap CD album model we are stuck with...

[-] -1 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 12 years ago

've always thought that lawyers making laws is a conflict of interest and should be illegal. Ad to many in government are lawyers.