Forum Post: Non-violence and No Flag Burning Is the Way to Go Forward With the Occupy Movement
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 6, 2012, 2:14 a.m. EST by PAConstitutionalist
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The flag burning in Oakland and the destruction of public buildings is not a way to gain support for the Occupy movement! Non-violence in the face of those in this government who want to crush you is the way to gain support for your movement. Mohatma Ghandi, a great soul, won support for his movement with non-violence. Ghandi even endangered his own life through fasts to support his cause for non-violent change. I believe in the principles of your movement; I ask you to change your tactics to achieve those aims!
Nice post. I agree that the behavior of protesters affects the perception of the public, especially given the slanted reporting by MSM.
I do not understand how any American can continue to ignore the response of governments around the country including suppressing peaceful protest, interferring with free press, implementing rules to suppress peaceful protest, and instigating violence and riots.
My suggestion for Oakland is that they put that energy toward electing a local government that supports their ideals and the freedoms that are supposed to be guaranteed by the Constitution.
Putting aside the cover that OWS is providing for violent anarchists s what will ultimately bury the whole movement. And trying to blame all violence on the police is laughable. Only liberals are stupid enough to believe that. Have the police overreacted at times? Sure. But much of the film I've seen proves that the anarchist filth started it.
Anarchy isn't a cover. Anarchy is the basis and foundation of the movement. Anarchists started this movement and are running the movement.
You really shouldn't call them names and tell them they are filthy. There are all kinds of filthy people. It's not limited to anarchists and I'm sure not all anarchists are filthy.
Personally, I thing flag burning is wrong. But I don't think this is exclusive to anarchists.
Also, I'm a liberal. And I don't agree with the violence that has taken place in this movement. And I don't blame the police for it. I think the police are doing the best they can in a difficult situation. Trying to protect the rights of others even as this movement would seek to trample on the rights of other people.
Truly blind marcher rhetoric Chugwunka . Another supporter of the greedy/corrupt?
Did you blink at the wrong times or just decide to ignore reality.
Hole digger.
[Removed]
We will not tolerate acts of violence perpetrated by our government
An intolerable thing exists. What's your plan?
Violence is what the Police do.
In every instance of 'violence' it was the police that came to the Party armed to the teeth to 'kick some ass'.
Funny how the enemy's of occupy like to portray the victims as the instigators. Note we didn't see any tea party people sprayed with CS or CN gas. Why was that? The government is terrified of the Poor organizing. It's one thing for the rich-white, ... its their right, but its not the right of the poor to protest.
Burning the US flag is accepted means of showing discontent, and has been upheld by the Supreme Court.
We the People are Under Duress, ... and we should symbolize such.
For no other reason 'burning the flag' tells the world that the US citizens are mad as hell and ain't going to take it anymore. For too long the USA has been a hypocrite telling the world how to manage its people, ... its good for the world to see the 'Real USA'
The fact is the system cannot tolerate this image, an image of unrest, an image that the USA is not paved with gold and prosperity.
Burning the flag is not an accepted means of showing discontent by the vast majority of Americans. Is it in your best interest to alienate people who support your cause?
The Supreme Court ruled that 'burning the flag' is a form of expression and a protected right.
Are you saying that the vast majority of TV watching Parasites in the USA disagree with their Supreme Court?
No, not at all. I think most Americans agree that people should be free to burn the flag. Supporting freedom of speech includes speech that one personally finds repugnant.
I fully support your right to burn the flag. Whether you have a right to do it isn't the issue. The issue is whether it is a smart strategy to reach your goal. You have the freedom to drive your car into the side of your house if you want to, but I'd say it would be a pretty stupid thing to do. Is it in your best interest to burn a flag when it alienates millions of Americans who would otherwise support the goals of Occupy?
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Driving your car into the side of your house, unless it was an accident is a crime.
American's that understand that the USA is under imperialist control by a foreign power, will understand the symbolism. Those Americans that don't understand the situation and who are controlled by the media will be offended.
Just maybe seeing more flag's get burned, could wake up more TV watching Sheep.
You want the flock to grow by bringing in MORONS, and in doing this you advocate turning OWS into Vanilla ice cream.
I advocate that what made OWS get this far was by being different. Burning flags gets media time and that is the ONLY thing that BUYS image view hours in the USA, most American's don't even know what OWS is, most Americans don't know who the VP is, ....
If anybody is serious about OWS growth, then they know that ONLY more TV time will sell its brand recognition, this is HOW the USA works, if you want to fight the system, you must play the game the same way they do, by maximizing your AIR-TIME.
It's not a crime to drive your own car into the side of your own house. It's your property.
Sorry, but the fact don't support your idea that flag burning will grow the flock. Quite the opposite, Occupy has lost a lot of support since J28.
what happened july 28 ?
jan 28 in oakland
what happened ?
There's a huge thread about it on here somewhere.
I didn't say 'grow the flock', I said maximize viewership ratings, peak exposure,..
The USA is a marketing machine, it don't matter if they're saying good or bad about you, so long as they spell your name right.
Don't you know a fucking thing about political science?
Your never going to have 99% so put that little bambi-ist thought to rest.
The USA revolution only had 5% or less participate, and this REVOLUTION will be NO different.
It's only legal to drive your car on the road, if your neighbors saw you driving your car into your house, they would call the police, and you would get cited for being stupid.
This is a typical shallow argument for nothing, ...
On the basis of your stupidity, its also legal to burn your flag, cuz you own the fucking flag.
I know of no case where the supreme court has ruled that its ok to drive car's into structures, even on your own property, stupid fucking idiot argument. If you can't debate for real, go find a easy forum that needs idiots.
Cited for being stupid? LOL. If that were a crime, you'd be doing life.
Why do people advocate cowardice? For what?
What have cowards accomplished in human history?
What war's were won by cowards?
When have cowards ever removed their chains of slavery?
Somebody is desperate to turn OWS into a colony of sheep.
But why?
Flag Burning is a form of art.
Think Burning Man, think expression.
Think half-mast, the USA is in a death spiral.
This movement is not anti-American, and flag burning is just making more enemies than friends. It is the incorrect form of expression for this movement.
Flag burning is stupid and counter-productive. Those burning the flag are almost as idiotic as the people who get so worked up about flag burning.
Diddo
The Revolution has no friends.
"I'm from the Government and here to help you"
If you believe that line, I have a prison cell for you at a FEMA camp.
The government is not a separate thing from ourselves. It's a reflection of ourselves. We need to take responsibility for any of it's faults or mistakes.
You're right. We can't expect the government to help as things are now. We need to help ourselves by fixing what's wrong in government.
For anyone to burn a flag, however legal, this is just a sad hopeless reaction as if we don't believe in ourselves or our country. While we may have the right to burn our flag, that doesn't mean its good.
And it's better that we try to make friends than make enemies. With thoughtless and violent behavior which serves no purpose other than to turn people off to the movement.
We won't be able to win everyone over with our messages, but we should try to win as many people over that do believe in our messages. Rather than behave in an uncivilized way that turns people away from the movement who otherwise are sympathetic to the messages. This would help the movement operate from a position of strength rather than weakness.
I'm from New Orleans and find that completely tasteless and when I said "friends" I meant more people to join our cause.
What exactly is your cause?
The media has been careful to demonize the OWS since its birth, you really think the OWS has friends in the MSM?
The system and police state simply want the OWS to go away to be silent, and go protest in some dark cave where they cannot be seen by the world. Marketing the world about American exceptional-ism requires that the poor not be seen, that 'tent city's not exist.
The revolution has no friends, if your looking for friends, you must be a policeman.
I'm saying average Americans, they might have the same feelings to join the movement, but as soon as they see a burning flag they might be turned off. Do you really think that is good for the movement?
they understand what you are saying, but they are puppets for the cops and the 1%.
There are substantially more people who are simply on the sidelines than who are "puppets for the cops and the 1%".
Who are? Average Americans or flag burners?
trolls on this forum.
Oh I see, agreed.
The 'average american' is a TV watching Walmart consumer, in spite of Kalle-Lasn's rhetoric', I can guarantee ALL that OWS is an elistist organization, and that the average HAIRLIP Single Digit American, is not wanted for anything else than his 'warm vote'. Just stating the obvious, READ, think and watch what they DO, and NOT what they SAY.
Are you an American?
you are one of the trolls on this forum.
Please fly a flag at half-mast if your sad for what your country has become. Please hang a flag upside down if you feel you or you nation needs help or is in distress. Burn a flag if you want the nation destroyed. Be careful what you say with your artful expression.
Burn Baby Burn.