Forum Post: News Flash: Stock Market up for the 4th straight week
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 22, 2011, 9:55 a.m. EST by happybanker
(766)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I thought OWS was trying to bring Wall St down? Seems to be doing the opposite. The Rich are Richer since this movement started. Thoughts?
As has been mentioned, they live in their own little fantasy world. They make money while the rest of us stew.
the rich will always be richer. get use to it. remove your level of want from the table. the other side will fall. can anyone here say they would turn down a .0001% fixed rate loan >>?<< or a 200% interest savings account. no , everyone wants.
"" the rich will always be richer. get use to it "" my thoughts here are with Mubarak, Gaddafy, European kings in the 1500, 1600 specially France, the Tzars of Russia, etc., Madoff, Khodorkovsky, Stanford, etc. the list is large and increasing.
ynot
yes the list is getting larger and increasing. thats the issue. how do you prevent the list from growing. if you don't have an answer we will be doing this again in a 100-300 years.
Yes, like always they are doing it right under our noses. I wonder if OWS might be distracting itself from what's going on the banking industry?
it will continue to rise till the dollar fails. when that happens then stocks will flop. through out history there is always a huge run up of the stocks before a huge drop. watch and see i give it six months at the most and we will be in a deppression. if we arent already
Dont know. Dont care. Diversify, relax, be Happy. Done
oh yeah i forgot to mention about when the coal companies came through our area and forced land owners to sign their land away for pennies on the dollar. if they didnt sign then strong arm henchman from these corporations would terrorize their families. oh did i mention that most of the people who wouldnt sale or be forced to sign would be killed and then falsified documents made to show the corporations made a legal buy. http://books.google.com/books?id=q4weAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1576&lpg=PA1576&dq=coal+company+steals+land&source=bl&ots=LyK7H6SpuV&sig=R9xjxuo8dYcTkaLis6m5znYX-KQ&hl=en&ei=TfOiToGGKMessQLYj_jRBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false now that the land has been mined and has made large corporations millions if not billions the people no longer have their homes. this all took place at the first of the 20th century.
diversify is not an option. think im puttin what money i have in the sure thing. the ground in a jar. wait i had a relative do that when they got a big chunk of money and the government made him dig it up and deposit it in a bank. they threatened him with jail if he didnt do so. that way he had to pay taxes on it. there is no freedom here anymore. its all a smoke screen that the american dream is achievable for everyone. its not. that dream died when they passed the fed reserve act in the early 20th century. wealth should be the peoples. not the government not by the top 1% it should be the peoples. corporations have taken over this country and almost all of the world. countries who shut their borders to american corporations are considered evil.
Thanks for proving that American Capitalism is working and taking over. That is what men and women have fought and died to keep.
Troll.
You can afford any stocks, so hush.
Seeing as I am a mechanical engineer working on designs for 6 flags, I would say I can afford some stocks. So respectively, hush.
You are working on designs on the back of your comic book. Now put your toys away, brush your teeth, put on your Batman PJ's and head on up to your bed. Nighty Night little one.
'United We Stand ! Let's build our Nation and global planet Together ! Yes, we are Us ! Oneness is better than oneness . . .'
We are US ! Together we are One
Now is the Time . .
Please Help to Co-Create an Occupy only Wiki : Real Time, Global, Wiki Occupy, We are One
'''Wiki Occupy''' !
Paris London New York Tel Aviv San Francisco Tokyo Antwerp Miami Chicago Washington D.C. Main Street
Wherever you Are . . .
We are One !
Wiki Occupy
http://wikioccupy.org
Will people ever figure it out... I remember years ago a broker telling me that if I buy Mutual Funds I will never lose money, the worst case scenario would be breaking even! It took me two bubbles to get the message, brokers lie, they want you to buy funds that make them the largest commission, thats it. So you suckers out there you have a better chance in Atlantic City than Wall Street!
Mistake 1 - ^went to broker instead of learning enough to not need one^
Yes you are a stock market Mogul! So just because I'm naive about trading that's OK to rip me off right! If I got to best buy and buy a 52" flat screen is it OK for them to sell me an empty box because I can't take it apart and put it back together. What bank do you work for...just so I know where not to back!
risk and return, my friend.
if you risk nothing, you earn nothing.
It's not about risk and return in this case banker guy..... it's about unethical practices and deception! (with a license)
^Mistake 2 - not understanding that brokers are salespeople, not financial wizards.
They claim to be and are paid to be!
^Mistake 3 - Taking ANYONE's word as gospel who is paid on commission.
I was very happy making 9% on average with Fidelity investments, I had total control as to where my dollars were going and it was free. But then my employer decided to switch banks. My previous employer's new plan directed funds in three or four groups that were based on number of years from retirement. If you were young they threw your money around like a whore on holiday. If you were mid career they would be slightly more conservative, and if you were within 10 years of retirement they supposedly were "very conservative" That's about all the information we had about where our money was invested unless of course you called them. When I spoke to the Investment banker personally I was told my money was invested in a wide variety of funds inside institutional investments. I finally found out that the employee savings plan funds were not with the bank that was printed on the front of our monthly statement that our money was with another international bank? When I contacted that bank the gave me some names like Utilities, Real estate, etc, When I asked for names of companies within those groups they couldn't tell me. With no real answers I stopped matching the company and being in the "very conservative" group I shouldn't worry about a big loss WRONG, I watched the value of my savings plan drop 35%. I was paying a fee to have no direction as to where my money was invested, and I wasn't even told that I was dealing with a different bank I believe the name of the bank was Barkeley. Your correct I am a naive investor, that's to lazy to study the market, but in reality if it wasn't for the company I worked for being involved I wouldn't have had a nickel involved in the stock market. To me the stock market is the American equivalent of Al Qaeda Luckily I had other savings and a pension that I took when I left the company.
My guess is you were in a Target Date 2020 Fund and the company you reference was probably Barclays. You should have asked for a prospectus and the latest Semi Annual report to get the info you were looking for. You mention it was a previous employer. Get that money out the plan if you are not happy with it. Roll it over to Fidelity if you liked them. You are not held hostage.
It's long gone out of there I cashed out both my pension and IRA account. Years ago the market was about long term investing and you could be relitively secure that if you invested consistantly throughout you career you would come out ahead when retirement came. Today it a big crap shoot.
Thats the point I'm trying to make, at the co meeting with 500 or so employees literature was handed out but it was JPMorganChase prospectus not Barclays. It wasn't found out until I called them (JPMorganChase) that I was told Barclays was the funds sponsers then was given Barclays us H/Q # in Seattle it was, I think. To deceptive I would never agreed to do business with Barclays because of their Lehman association.
I could argue that taking a dump on the toilet seat is wrong because it hurts the next guy all day long nut I don't think you'll get it.
Don't be fooled by artificial gains in the stock market.
In an economy with no or very little growth the stock market should remain stagnant. Inflation is the only factor to cause stock prices to increase in certain sectors. This week was an exception to the rule, why because CEO's are buying back their own companies stock at discount prices to artificially overvalue their stock. I can say for near certainty that within the next week the market will drop as much or more than it has gained, and that has been going on for months now!
http://247wallst.com/2011/08/12/ceos-buying-their-own-companies-at-a-discount-nly-chtr-d-eqy-gbx-hun-leap-lgnd-mbrg-ms-tie-win/
The fact that you can say anything about the near certainty of anything in the future tells me all I need to know about you. Can you read my palm while you are at it?
You are one stupid ass hole!
Coming from a guy who doesnt know the difference between Cash on Hand and earnings, thanks!
Aparently thay are reporting it as one in the same!
Ever sat down and read an Earnings Report, Paul. Come on, you may be a great guy but gosh, you are clueless about this.
The stock market is for slave owners. Trading and buying slaves!
This is what separates me from this movement. Why do you want the stock market to crash? Are you all really that selfish and envious? My father, who worked very hard and honestly throughout his entire life, and is now retired, has all of his money in the market. A lot of that is due to the terms of his retirement pension. If you cause him to lose all of his money, forcing him into poverty, and cheer for his demise, I will seriously stand on the street and through rocks at your motherfuckers.
Your father should have safer alternatives built into his pension that will safeguard against loss, you should look into it, instead of gambling. Pensions are like insurance policies they are backed by the state and some by the federal government. If the pension plan your father is in is being that risky with his money you should notify you state government regulation board for pensions.
Clearly, you don't understand retirement plans.
Sweet heart I live off one!
Will since you think it's backed by the federal government, it's either Social Security or a government pension from being a government employee. I don't know of any mainstream pension plans that the federal government has ever backed.
Maybe this will help
http://www.pbgc.gov/
The PBGC provides insurance in the event of pension bankruptcy and is NOT funded by federal tax revenues. The point of the PBGC is to encourage enrollment of voluntary private pension plans. Saying your private pension is backed by the federal government is like saying your savings account is also. That is not its purpose at all. It's to create confidence and solvency in their relative markets. Relying on them to bail you out in the advent of an all out market crash is foolish in the extreme!
In the event of an all out market crash your guess is as good as mine as to how it would be handeled. but The market doesn't have to crash for your fathers plan to be covered, remember it's insured. Even if just the instituton that handels his pension goes under and it not bought out by another company his pension would be guaranteed up to 80%. If your that paranoid maybe you should look at a guaranteed fixed rate anuity, depends on how much income you need to generate though.
All I know is that in Pennsylvania my pension plan is covered by the state up to 80%. As for the fed being involved I didn't know if your father was a government employee or not thats why I suggested the fed. So if my plan fails and is not bought up by another company the state will pay up to 80% you should see if your state offers the same protection and if your plan is on there list.
Sorry just tryin to help geezzzz
I must recant, the FDIC is "backed by the full faith of the U.S. government".
No one wants the stock market to crash. They are crashing. Sorry, but "selfish" is a characteristic of a capitalist, not of a poor man. The capitalists are the ones that are crashing the markets. If you only knew how this works!! Goes like this: a capitalist has a million dollars and wants one thing ONLY: maximize his profits, nothing else. He puts that money in the market on shares and while he gets the profits required, the money stays there. As soon as the share price deeps, he cashes his money and walks out. He is the one that creates a chain reaction, making the markets to sink, not the poor man. The poor man has no shares, has no money, remember? If you want to throw rocks at someone, do it to the rich and the corporations (NOT ADVISABLE AT ALL), they are the ones ruining the savings of your father, my savings and pension and the jobs of all of us. Get some education on economics, before you start defending a system that you know nothing abt it.
ynot
You also must not have read the body of this thread's original post.
Are you an economics professor? I studied finance and economics at a state university buddy and graduated with honors. All you've stated are opinions.
For someone with a Honors in economics, your post seams odd. Opinions? That the capitalist invest in the stock market, not the poor? That a capitalist only worries abt profits, nothing else? That the rich can crash the market by selling the shares, not the poor? That the poor man has no money? That you should not throw stones at anyone? Odd very odd, for an economist.
ynot
OK, let me make one correction; you use fallacious arguments, e.g. your assertion that the poor can't be capitalists. Furthermore, the Securities Act of 1933 and subsequent laws made it illegal for any one investor to purposefully manipulate the stock market by the means which you've stated. Only in some grand conspiracy, would "the rich" be able to collectively cause serious and noticeable market fluctuations. What you have presented is nothing more than opinions, fallacies and conspiracy theories.
Not that I believe this movement has the power to affect change, I merely stated that if it did accomplish the goal stated by the original poster; you better believe I would stand against each and every person that supported it. The intentional collapse of our economy would force our nation into hardships far beyond what we've experienced up until now.
The rich manipulate the stock market, by short selling, by using HFT systems, by buying useless shares by the millions to prop up the share and at the right time selling all, making millions of profit.
"" The intentional collapse of our economy would force our nation into hardships far beyond what we've experienced up until now. "" Just your opinion, a baseless argument for an economist. For someone accusing me of using fallacies and of spewing out "just opinions" you are not doing much better.
"" ...your assertion that the poor can't be capitalists .."" How can a poor be a capitalist in the sense of making a living out of his capital? That is odd. Please, tell me how.
ynot
Capitalism -"an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit from investment, usually in competitive markets". I know many "poor" business owners. Being rich is not a requirement of capitalizing on your investments and fruits of your labor, big or small.
Contrarily to what you believe is an opinion and baseless argument, economic collapses throughout history have proven to be very hard on the locality in which it effects, e.g. The Great Depression. Brush up on your history.
A single investor is not manipulating the entire stock by any of the means which you stated. It is very unlikely any single investor would have the power to impose that much influence over the entire system. What you're trying to do is argue that "the rich" somehow as a whole are purposefully collaborating to cause market fluctuations. That is nothing short of a conspiracy theory. Short-selling may well have an influence on market fluctuations, but the movement is purely organic in nature with no purposed outcome.
Unless you can come up with facts or at least something with historical significance to support any of your claims; I won't be responding to your ill informed and illogical comments.
You change the subject every post, because you can not support your baseless arguments. If the business owner that you know is a poor fellow, then he is not a capitalist making a living off his capital: he just works for a boss (him) and gets a salary from himself. That is not a capitalist living off his capital. I am a capitalist since I live off my capital. That's all I do, wait for the profits at the end of the month to pay my bill. I do not work for me, my capital feeds me, so I am a capitalist. That poor owner that you know, can barely survive; he does not live of his capital, he lives off his labour. The day he doesn't work, he doesn't get pay. Not me. Another thing; the rich can and do manipulate the market, even using techniques like inside trading, which very few poor people can ever do. You need money to do it, lots of it. Check Soros and the Bank of England to see what a capitalist can do. You are the one that still hasn't brought any evidence that a future replacement of the actual capitalist system "" would force our nation into hardships far beyond what we've experienced up until now."" this is just your ignorant imagination running wild. Have a nice life yourself also.
ynot
I don´t want the stockmarket to crash.
For the rest no problem. Anyway, In Europe things might change really soon.
Right, you're envious and think you're entitled to a share of wealth you did nothing to create.
Sort of :-)
I compare it lately with a game of monopoly. When the winner is so strong and he wants us to continue playing, he will have to share, otherwise we losers will not continue playing.
because Misery Loves Company. That's why.
No more outsourcing and so called "free trade" support American jobs in the USA buy MADE IN USA
People are hopeful that Europe can get their act together. Also the dollar has lost it's value in the past few weeks which is good for the market.
Watch what's going on in the EU. The financial system is finished.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJL1arNdL0Y
Glad your happy, just wanted to share what made my day :-)
This video is great!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PyernhYxuA
All I saw was a guy yelling. I respect him for his service to his country but did he really win anything with this shouting match? And yes, I was HAPPY before and after the video...LOL
You´re a nice guy, don´t know if you do any banking, but thats alright.
Well the yelling guy defenatly won something, but I believe the hole movement did. He became famous (more then 2 milion hits in a notime, various interviews on tv shows, and started an interesting debate)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Jpn5D73cQ
Refering the good days on the exchange markets, I repeat, don´t be too happy, diversify and stay extremely cautious.
You seem nice too!.... The Marine made be proud to be an American. I used to be in banking. I do taxes and financial planning now. The banks are greedy - like alot of sales organizations are. I just dont think they were the ONLY guilty party for this mess. Govt, Banks, Borrowers. Are showed how clueless they were.
Check also Egypt Stock exchange. Libya Stock exchange, Greece stock exchange (-50%), Spain, Portugal, etc. There are many others to "entertain" you. Also another index that is going "nicely" up is the UNEMPLOYMENT index. Very few of the 1%'ers when talking abt this rise of the DOW and NASDAQ remember to look at the unemployment index.
Low labor costs increase corporate earnings. Higher corporate earnings increase the intrinsic value of the corporate stock. Corporate earnings are near all-time highs.
Thats because they are including cash on hand as earnings.
^clueless^
Simply watching the news will tell you that corporations are holding 3.5 trillion since 2008
Earnings=Revenues-Expenses. It shows up on the income statement. Cash on hand shows up on the Balance sheet. Kinda two different things, Paul.
I'm sure they put all of their fudge in the right column...
Its all about productivity, people are finally kicking it in gear for the paycheck they are earning, im sure it shows favorably on them. Sure thing boss, ill stay a couple hours extra and keep the line running, no problem, Thank you Rob, i knew i could count on you! That guy will keep his job. Im sure many of the folks who are still employed are more than happy to work a little harder and be more conscientious to keep their jobs, ie more productive, ie the company does better, ie the keep the job!
You got that right. Nothing brings back work ethic like a good ole fashion Recession.
Low labor costs is manna to capitalists. Better still, no wages at all is the solution. Robots, computers, mechanised/computerised systems can replace humans any time now. Remember the ATM's replacing tellers in the Banks? Who needs to pay wages? Robots work for free, no annual leave, no tea time. Get rid of all humans NOW and replace them by machines. More profits, no strikes, no promotions, retirement funds and all that shit humans need. But, hang on: who then buys Coke and Nike and Apple and BMW's? OK I admit, the capitalists have a problem. But they can create a credit card for us to spend now what we WILL earn in 5 years (if not replaced by a robot, off course). Oh shit, they did that already and that is why we here. So, the capitalists have a problem.
ynot
still need to hire mechanics and engineers to keep those robots running smoothly!
note to everyone else: if you have not started college, time to think about a degree in comp or elec engineering
Wrong. Robots can, and do already, fix the robots. Robots can, and do already, make robots. Pretty soon you can fly NY to London, Paris, Tokyo in a crew less airplane (technology already in place, not implemented because of psychologic resistance. Would you board today such an aircraft? But it will happen). Same for shipping: no need for a crew or a very limited crew. A driver less taxi or a bus is no longer sci-fi. Even medical operations are made by remote control. Soon, less then a tenth of the world population will have a job. So, who then buys the Coke and Nike and Apple and BMW's? Either you stop technology or replace capitalism.
ynot
so i assume you think robots designed those maintenance robots?
last i heard google was made up of comp scientists, not robots.
Let me copy & past my previous comment: "" Soon, less then a tenth of the world population will have a job. "" Last time I checked, pretty soon the population on this planet will be in the region of 8 and then 9 Billion people, +/-10% with a job, the others.......Some will have jobs off course, but they will be so few that it does not count. If you do not believe what I am saying, check around. Unemployment in a capitalist system is here to stay. Better still: it is here "to grow". In a capitalist system only one thing counts: PROFIT, nothing else.
ynot
the poor will die, and nature will regain its ability to impose its system of natural selection upon mankind.
That is what Gaddafi was thinking some hours before, I am sure. The same happened to the Tzars of Russia some months before they were executed, and Mubarak, and Louis the XVI, and, and, and.... Everything changes, nothing stays the same. This system will eventually go. And it looks that the end is getting closer.
ynot
last i heard gaddafi was not nature.
Gaddafi though that nothing changes, all stays the same. He was wrong and that was my point. Everything changes and change is in the air, regarding economic systems for all the countries on earth. Capitalism creates unemployment and that is why we are here (at least the 99%er's), complaining, trying to get this changed. Also, it is an unfair system where the rich get richer, just because they are rich, not clever or harder workers, at the expenses of the poor.
ynot
Its the nice thing about Survival of the Fittest. The unfit eventually die out.
Not anymore!
Easy fix, start your own business and work for yourself. That way, you can make your own rules. That is the great thing about Capitalism. You are free to do it your way.
Each person a business? I don't think so. You start your own bank (one man show); or you start your own car maker (one man show); or you start your own TV station (one man show).
Capitalism had it's days. Now it's over. Something else has to move in.
ynot
I didn't say everyone. If you are happy working for someone else then by all means, stick to it. If not, start your own business. We dont need "something else" when you can already do something else if you want to.
You said: "If you are happy working for someone else then by all means, stick to it." That's why we (the 99%, it does not look like you are one of us) are here. We are not happy. Didn't you get it yet? The corporations are screwing the employees more and more in order for the directors and the CEO to get the FAT salaries, bonus and perks. We are worth off then we were 10 years ago, let alone 20 or 30 years. I mean, the ones with a job, off course. In 10 years as the things go, it will be even worse. The rich will be MUCH MUCH richer and the poor will not be just poorer, the poor will just not even have a job for reasons detailed above abt robots, computerised systems, etc. Come down to earth and look at life. at reality. You capitalists are always coming with the worn out argument "start your own business". Doing what? Another TV station, another software house, making computers, cars, building houses? Considering that the money in "our" hands is plenty, how do you envisage that? We hardly can feed the family as the things are.
ynot
Gotta use your brain and be ready to work hard. When Steve Jobs started his company in a garage, do you think everyone else on earth was thinking this would be the future? No, he used his brain to think outside the box, not inside the box.
All the unemployed out there are idiots and lazy buggers, because jobs are plenty full, just people no longer have the drive!! In any case, you do not need to be paid billions just to start a company or invent something. Another capitalist cliché: working hard. Do you think only the rich works hard, the poor are all lazy? Have you ever gone underground to a mine and stay there one shift a day, week after week month after month, year after year? With a pick on your hands digging, digging? You have no idea what hard work is. I bet you stay in an air cond office the all day. Do not tell me what is working hard.
ynot
You are right, I do. Why? - because it is a personal choice. And because I can. It is nice by the way and I appreciate it (unlike most who dont appreciate anything this great country provides)
Yes you got it right: personal responsibility is required. That is one of the point of all the protests: get all those bankers behind bars because they are crooks and get the banks to pay for the mess.
ynot
You said "someone had to keep signing those papers. someone wanted that cash out..it takes two to tango...I blame both, you can blame one."" but the ones bailed out are the banks, the CEO, the directors. All the rest of us, including you, pay for it. That is the argument, the fight. Aren't the Banks charging you because they are the ones with the knowledge, the info abt the markets, the know-how to advise you? Looks like the only thing they know and knew was to rip us off. still can get the REPLY button on your posts.
ynot
No, they are charging you because you are asking for their advice and willing to pay for it. They don't have the "know-how" about anything but how to make a buck. Personal responsibility is required or we are going to go through this over and over and over again.
U said "" But, if OWS focuses narrowly on the banks I think that would be a mistake "" Isn't that the reason why OWS is protesting? The banks screwing us? They lent money to people that could never afford to repay the loan in 3 life times. Then, the following year they go back and say to you that since the market is really good, they can re-evaluate the home and recapitalise it. In that way, since you started @ say US$100k, we can re-evaluate it @ US$120k so you can draw US$20k, pay us back US$5k in fees and use the balance to do whatever. Next year we (the bank) will do the same. U know the story well. The idea was to get the initial fees that you pay to get; first the original loan, second to do the re-evaluation and then to do a second, a third, etc, loans. That did increased the bank's turnover for that year and the board of directors looked really good, specially the CEO. The future??? Who cares, what counts is the here and now. Then came the bang after the boom. Guess what: the bank still got bailed out by the governments all over the world.. So, yes, the reason OWS exists is 90% because of the banks.
ynot
someone had to keep signing those papers. someone wanted that cash out..it takes two to tango...I blame both, you can blame one.
This page does not allow me to reply to your last post. "REPLY" is not available, so I use this post. Nice to communicate with someone that recons. that he is a privileged. You sound like that you know it. Many in your position assumes that as "a right".
ynot
Many in the industry are greedy jerks. Make that most. I have never said otherwise. But, if OWS focuses narrowly on the banks I think that would be a mistake. And for the record, I dont even work for one anymore.
You said "I do"?? Have you gone underground? Or do you work in an air cond office?
ynot
Nice, big, new, AC office with a flat screen TV. Its really nice.
[Removed]
Actually not. I prefer to buy buy buy every two weeks regardless of what the market is doing.
[Removed]
Thanks but no thanks. I will take good ole fashion Large US Companies. Give me GE, Procter & Gamble, McDonalds, All of the large Banks, ....(list goes on and on)....
[Removed]
Yes we will! If this forum and movement still exist.