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Forum Post: New list of demands to be debated NOW!

Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 8, 2011, 12:12 a.m. EST by ARod1993 (2420)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Sorry for the clickwhoring, but this is rather important, as it brings up a lot of the things those of us at OWS have been arguing about in terms of the relative roles in society of the government and big business. Essentially, Anonymous released a constitution/manifesto a day or two ago entitled "The New Common Sense" in the tradition of Tom Paine's pamphlet, viewable here for those who are interested: http://anoncentral.tumblr.com/post/12409353866/for-the-99-the-new-common-sense-must-distribute

I read it and found it both quite interesting and quite elegant. I am interested in many of their ideas, especially campaign finance and lobbying reform and I do agree that continuing to concentrate wealth in the manner that has been occurring for the past three decades is both highly untenable and will have a very high cost for America and its people alike. I am also glad to see that Anonymous is calling for positive, quantifiable reforms rather than simply scrapping the system and attempting to remake the country in the image of their desires; that sort of talk is not only dangerous but quite quantifiably unproductive.

There are some concerns I would like to see addressed, though. Regarding term limits on Supreme Court justices: it's definitely an interesting idea, but how exactly do you plan for it to work without making things even more intensely volatile and partisan than they are now? I do believe that justices are a bit of a rare breed; they need to have the practical experience in applying the law that only comes with a prior judgeship but at the same time have the impartiality and expertise of a Constitutional scholar. You're right that the Supreme Court isn't really seen as an impartial arbiter so much as the ultimate prize for whatever ideology is dominant at any given time. The position demands the immunity from petty politicking that only comes with a life term and the accountability that comes with regular popular election. How would they suggest resolving this conundrum?

A reevaluation of where our government stands with respect to the Constitution sounds like a great idea, but broad interpretation of the Bill of Rights has at times saved a number of rights that you and others like you have come to depend on. Mapp v. Ohio and Griswold v. Connecticut have in fact defined the right to privacy as we know it today. If you decide to simply throw away all judicial precedent uniformly and take a literalist interpretation of the constitution you wind up repudiating cases like those right alongside Plessy and Citizens United. Would it not be better to treat the body of law surrounding the Constitution (while not with the same preservative zeal as the Constitution itself) with a certain modicum of respect rather than approaching the process with strict literalism in mind?

While we're on the topic of interpreted powers, a clarification of the power of the presidency would be a very nice thing to have. However, if all vagueness in the original writing of the Constitution is treated as strictly prohibitive rather than open to interpretation the president will essentially be reduced to a manager of generals and a procedural delay in the passing of legislation. I do not believe that executive orders and their cousins should be disallowed simply because they are not specifically provided for; rather their role in the shaping of policy should be defined far more sharply than they are currently. I believe the same should go for the elastic clause (also known as the "necessary and proper" clause) and the interstate commerce provision; such powers are subject to abuse but have also produced some of the greatest victories for the people in recent history (Truman's integration of the armed forces, for one). How would they propose accounting for that?

I'm really curious to see what people think about this because I feel like the document has a lot of the right ideas. That said, good intentions and the right ideas aren't necessarily enough to change things for the better without a carefully thought-through approach to implementation. If people have objections to either the ideas or the implementation of these ideas this would be a good place to start the process of hashing it all out.

14 Comments

14 Comments


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[-] 2 points by willrosswriter (69) from Crystal Lake, IL 13 years ago

No, thank you. We have a good constitution and a good system. We just need to actually enforce it both in rule and in spirit, and get the money out of it.

Even though we're trying to fix parts of it, America's system still kicks seven kinds of ass.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 13 years ago

Here's the thing; it's not actually a new constitution; I just put that up there to attract attention. It's more a series of demands centered around re-truing the government both to the letter and the spirit of the current Constitution. To my mind, it's a fairly good idea and one that merits further examination; my post is essentially about putting the demands out there and fostering debate on the merits of those demands.

[-] 1 points by willrosswriter (69) from Crystal Lake, IL 13 years ago

You'd need 2/3rds of the states to ratify even a single amendment. It's nearly impossible to change that document, which was one of the wisest moves the founding fathers ever made.

It's resistant to the whims of popular opinion, which is as it should be (and if it wasn't, it would have been changed in some very nasty ways over the years.)

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 13 years ago

I know, and that's why I'm nervous about defining constitutional power too narrowly. Because the Constitution is extraordinarily difficult to modify but I doubt that many of the founding fathers would recognize today's America as the evolution of the newborn federation they built while they were alive. Since we couldn't up and rewrite the Constitution to reflect those differences and simply junking it would be considered tantamount to treason, we reinterpreted it to match the changing realities around us. Inevitably, doing things that way resulted in a lot of complications and quirks, some of which need to be stripped away. That said, strict literalism is no more the answer to our problems than carefree sophistry, and I feel like we need to be aware of that.

[-] 1 points by willrosswriter (69) from Crystal Lake, IL 13 years ago

Oh I have no problem with your ideas. Just saying that the Constitution method of implementing it won't work in practice.

If we can't get the Equal Rights Amendment passed, it's VERY unlikely that you could get any sort of social movement agenda amendment passed.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 13 years ago

I know, and it worries me....

[-] 2 points by ramous (765) from Wabash, IN 13 years ago

amendments, yes. new constitution? no.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 13 years ago

Here's the thing; it's not actually a new constitution; I just put that up there to attract attention. It's more a series of demands centered around re-truing the government both to the letter and the spirit of the current Constitution. To my mind, it's a fairly good idea and one that merits further examination; my post is essentially about putting the demands out there and fostering debate on the merits of those demands.