Forum Post: National Public Initiatives
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 8, 2011, 7:47 a.m. EST by randart
(498)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I have tried to spark this conversation before and had zero response but I will try again anyway.
Why don't we work for a way to establish a national public initiative process that allows for "we the people" to initiate our ideas and then be allowed to vote for these ideas without relying on "representatives"? We all know they are bought off, even the tea baggers that were voted in, so we will never have a true voice unless we the people can propose changes that we actually want to see happen. We can make it so sixty percent of the voters have to sign onto the initiative but at least we will make it so we can have a true voice in what we vote on nationally.
Any suggestions or agreements?
Here is a target to vote for here and now. Kicking out the members of congress who ACTUALLY CAUSED the financial collapse.
The Congress That Crashed America - Actionable Political Information http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-congress-that-crashed-america-actionable-polit/
This is a list of members of congress as of Oct. 2010 who voted FOR S-900, the Financial Services Modernization Act which caused the financial collapse of 2008. You can vote these people out of power.
Here is a list: http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/congcrash.html , that I composed for the 2010 elections of all of the still sitting in 2010 members of congress who voted in 1999 for S-900. There are also links to the official vote for S-900 so people can see the politicians who today are governors and or elected or appointed officials who voted for the financial collapse of America in 1999.
I said basically the same exact thing a few hours ago, so I for one agree with you.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/idea-to-reform-how-we-vote/ was my post
But yes, to quote George Washington... A Democracy is only a halfway point between a true Republic of the people, and tyranny. Our pledge is "To the REPUBLIC for which it stands". Only...we aren't a Republic at all. We need to put the voice directly in the hands of the people, and with the internet that is now very possible.
I agree. Information is passed much faster than it once was and people can get informed very quickly regarding issues that matter to their lives.
California already does public referendum. Personally, I don't want the rest of the country to become the absolute mess California is. But that's what happens when laws are made based on each individual's interests. Everyone votes for what is best for them, everyone else be damned.
please - with all of the energy and brilliance in OWS,
why are we devoting so much energy into unattainables.
I'm sorry - but this is not a political philosophy classroom.
It is the real world.
please work on REAL ATTAINABLE goals
Why discount this idea as unattainable? With the advent of the internet and social sites this might be a way to have a healthy dialogue about where this country goes in the future.
With corporations sitting on over 2 trillion in cash just what do you think is REALLY attainable?
I did not mean to imply that this ONE is ever unattainable, but virtually all are - until we get the money out of Washington -
There are a huge number of great, well thought out, COMPLICATED ideas that will require a huge amount of "selling" and explanation" and will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple - that is popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
that 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons & have no personhood rights”
and
“money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)
If they could tie the left and right into a success -
WHY CAN'T WE??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.
5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.
Need your help. pl. click the link and sign the petition to send the message to politicians and fix our economic problems. Need millions of signatures to get politicians attention and make this work. Here is the link:
http://www.change.org/petitions/members-of-congress-and-senators-fix-the-economy-and-balance-the-budget-now?pe=d4e
I would like to see something like this enacted, however, I think the very best way to do it would be to prototype it first with a very inclusive public beta program to work out the kinks.
This would give an opportunity to see what line of quality legislation might come out of such a device.
Also, keep in mind, adding something like this requires well thought out checks and balances with the other government powers.
I don't want the public to have a say in everything but there are some things that we absolutely have a right to vote on.
This is only an idea but maybe should be a part of the overall plan of OWS.
I completely agree - we need direct democracy. It works for Switzerland, it can work for us. Look at former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel's work...he's been advocating this for years. And in response to the naysayers, yes I'd rather have a so-called uneducated "average Joe" making choices than a politician who takes legalized bribes from corporations on a regular basis.
Elections are the method. Lazy, ignorant OWS people sit in the park dreaming up nonsense. read more -- http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/ Joe Paterno proves Americans are creeps
Joe Paterno allowed a kid to be molested. When a kid is being molested you don't report it to an athletic director, you report it to law enforcement. For law enforcement to now protect Joe Paterno from the same justice they are pursuing with all of Paterno's staff involved in the molesting incident because Paterno won or lost football games proves that the American people are nasty, stupid, and ignorant creeps.
The fact that the American people allow the entire government to be bribed on the record because they call bribes "campaign finance" is glaring proof that Americans are irrational. They laugh at the jokes by SNL, Jon Stewart, and Steven Colbert while they ignore the reality of those jokes.
Casey Anthony alleged being molested by her father but the Florida State Attorney refuses to prosecute George. George Anthony on the witness stand gave evasive answers when he was confronted for molesting Casey but he isn't being prosecuted for perjury either.
The Florida State Attorney knew that their evidence of the duct tape was rearranged by them for their attempt to execute -- murder -- an innocent woman who was the victim of her father's molesting. Only creeps do that. Then the media lied every day to convince their vast audience that Casey murdered Caylee. Only creeps do that.
"Elections are the method"
Today is election day.
What percent of the OWS'ers will be casting votes today in their local elections?
Same question, but replace "the OWS'ers" with "americans"?
How can people expect change when we are not willing to take advantage of the options available?
I believe that the answer is, ' to be informed takes hard work, and we are not willing to do the work'.
Many people are well informed. Many, many, . . ., many more people are totally uninformed.
Very sad day.
Thank you for reality. They are misinformed and delusional.
An Informed, Reasoned Solution for America’s Economic Disaster
By Steve Miller
Do you really want fat cheeseburger eating Jerry Springer watching politically uneducated people designing and passing laws for your country?
First, I don't think they would participate in the first place and secondly, yes, I would like to give the people the right to vote on national laws even if they do not pass.
My first initiative would be to begin weening the politicians from corporate money. It is a non-violent process that would make people feel included in this republic.
You should certainly separate money and politics. If you do this, you probably won't have to bother to give idiots the right to vote on every issue that comes up.