Forum Post: My POV while studying the constitution
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 3, 2011, 10:11 p.m. EST by Smallhubbub
(13)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I find it ironic that, as a grade 10 student studying US history 1, am learning about the different viewpoints of the federalists and anti federalists and seeing how the problems today were thought of back then, 200 years ago. When the constitution was being written, delgates gathered round so they could maintain a fair representation of the people while making sure the right decisions were made. The state legislatures kept up the reprisentation part, but the federal govt kept us from making stupid decision. However, this was for the uneducated majority 200 years ago, where learning basic math and reading was a plus. The rich and educated were the federal govt, keeping the lesser educated public majority in check. Yet, 200 years later, we have the same govt, with a much more educated public majorty. We have no need for a federal govt that filters our ideas, for example the electoral college. It was formed to prevent us from making stupid mistakes. Now, however, we are educated and we can make decisions for ourselves. We can pick who we want as our leader, not what the ones chosen by the ones we chose choose. And in the house of reps, which is supposed to be the 99%'s big break, why arent we happy? Do they not have enough power? Are they not correctly representing us? Are they doing what they want, what we want, or what the rich want? Somewhere along the way, every governor, representative, senator, etc get blinded by other ideals and way of life and forget about our hard lives. Either that or they dont have a strong voice. Going back to the Framers of the Constitution: their opposition was the anti-federalists. Their main ideal was to oppose the federalists rather than being binded by one opposing ideal, as the OWS protesters are doing. We have different causes but share our dislike for being under represented. The anti federalists belived that one set of laws cant possibly represent the diversity among the states. The rights of the people were in danger if they were told what to do by a constitution that gave power to a federal govt. While studying this subject, i couldnt help but think about OWS. I highly suggest looking into the making and ratifying of the constitution, as it is very relTed to todays problems. One final quote i have to add, by montesquieu- "in a large republic there are men of large fortunes, and consequently of less moderation; there are trusts too great to be placed in any single subject; he has interest of his own; he soon begins to think that he may be happy, great and glorious, by oppressing his fellow citizens; and that he may raise himself to grandeur on the ruins of his country. In a large republic, the public good is sacrificed to a thousand views."
That is very good. I do believe strongly that we can affect change by using the system. they caught us while we were asleep because we didn't watch what they were doing. Protest is part of the system, but so is the constitution and so is voting. So Im here and at Tea party and working for both, the OWS protests in opposition, and the TP forward actions.
Nice :) i find it very comforting that interest in the OWS came in a sudden burst because for a while i had these ideals, but as a teenager who would really listen? Its fantastic that there are so many people taking up the ideals and taking action to change the situation, so i thank you a ton for reading this and taking action :)
What does POV mean?
point of view
Point of view:)
Smallhubbub wrote: Now, however, we are educated and we can make decisions for ourselves.END-----
Well, that is what you've been told, and it's true in many ways. But it is filtered of vital aspects. Been goin' on since about 100 years ago.
http://www.realityzone.com/hiddenagenda2.html
Then, the civil war was never formally ended and the defacto military government in power continued without ever returning to constituional government.-------
This page has a .pdf called "Constitution" and other facts that are pertinent for a complete picture of what happened since the federalist papers that makes another, worse problem.
http://algoxy.com/poly/emergency_powers_statutes.html
Bascially Article V creates a democratic level completely over the senate, the congress and the president because it can alter and abolish just as the Declaration of Independence states. At the point of article V and convention, with state votes on ratifications, the federal government will be superseded after we formally end the civil war, remove the defacto military government with their admiralty flags in court rooms, and restore constitutional government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."
Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.-------
What ive been thinking is that if the Ones in charge like the congress really think that we're not educated enough, then educate us! The govt is meant to represent us and do whatthe people want, not what they independently believe is right. Therefore, even if the people arent educated, the govt should still do what they want, because thats what a govt is about. Chances are the majority wont make bad choices anyways. As for the rest of your message, i tried to read it but it looks like it takes some time to read the whole thing, so ill read it later :) thank you for taking your tome to respond :)
Smallhubbub wrote: What ive been thinking is that if the Ones in charge like the congress really think that we're not educated enough, then educate us!END-----
Actually, we have been sabotaged by American educational institutions that went along with GATT. They taught skills that multinational corporations moved their operations to China and India. Collusion. Now we have populations that have no skills that fulfill actual needs on the ground here in America.
Smallhubbub wrote: The govt is meant to represent us and do what the people want, not what they independently believe is right.END-----
Yes, represent, not our wants however, our NEEDS. That is right.
Smallhubbub wrote: Therefore, even if the people arent educated, the govt should still do what they want, because thats what a govt is about. END-----
Government is about LIFE, first. Life is sustained by needs, not wants. Our economy sustains our commodity flow. Government and corporations have colluded in its destruction as they are infiltrated.
Smallhubbub wrote: Chances are the majority wont make bad choices anyways. END-----
As long as the majority are making choices selected by government and corporations of the infiltration's, they cannot make good choices. No good choices are offered, they do not serve the usurpation of the constitution.--
Our only choice to defend the constitution is an Article 5 convention.
At this point, however, OWS is fighting against false representation. The majority , or 99%, are being overlooked so the corporations nd rich can fulfill their wants. The problems in this were programs like the electoral college, etc. we dont need things like that to have us indirectly decide who is oing into power. The people are educated enough to decide for themselves what they want, even, what they need. When the constitution was written, i believe that not alot could openly talk about the enlightenment with detail and ease as 9th graders do in classrooms today. I think that the fight b.t ows and the corrupt govt representation can be watered down to getting the majority a more direct vote into deciding who is in our gov doing what and what they are deciding for us
Smallhubbub wote: The people are educated enough to decide for themselves what they want,END-----
Human being ALWAYS want what they need, but they do not always need what they want.
Voting on anything other than ratifications of amendments to the constitution during an article 5 in our states will probably destroy what is left of the constitution. Article 5 voting is the only vote that will serve our interests. No aspect of congress or the senate can be trusted AT ALL.---
Investing trust in anything proposed from those areas is an end to the constitution. Only Article 5 and our understanding of natural law, as the constitution represents it, can save our nation.
You make a pretty big assumption there. I don't know what education was like in the 1780s when the U.S.C. was written, but in 1802 Jefferson commissioned a study of the american populace, and it was discovered they had 99% literacy (higher than now!)
How is that possible? Simple. Back then being able to Read was as important as having a TV for us today. It was how people kept up-to-date with the latest news and communicated with one another (post). And of course near-everyone owned a copy of the King James Bible which they read religiously (pun intended). Many owned businesses (even if it was just selling food to townfolk) which required knowledge of math.
In other words, most of the Power should be in the hands of the People's State Legislatures. Close to the citizens and therefore more accountable.
Amendment 10.
About the uneducated majority, this is what the richer, more educated people thought. They believed that because they weren educated in the thinkings of rousseau or locke, etc. so when i said that, it wasnt from my perspective but from the perspective of the more educated in america in that time. As for the anti federalist ideas, what they originally wanted was independent states running as independent nations having a loose federal government that came together to discuss important issues. So, compared to the government the constitution called for, the laws seemed too oppressive and in detail to correctly govern an entire nation of such differences
Thomas Jefferson certainly never thought that (hence why he founded a party called Democrat-republican). Nor did Thom's friend James Madison who is the author of the constitution. It is why they had elected legislatures, and and an elected House in congress.
Like the modern EU. :-)
Not just those two, but compared to themselves the people werent fit to make strong govt decisions that would fully benefit them. And yeah, like the EU haha.
They still aren't. See the typical interview with voters on youtube.
Even if the voters arent fully educated, its what the majority wants. A govt should, in my opinion, do what the people say, because anything else would be against them. But the voters shouldnt be kept in ignorance, if the govt belives that the people arent educated enough, then rather than keep them in ignorance, educate them rather than do what they believe is right for them, because there will always be a rift
Tyranny of the majority to squash the minority (or individual) underfoot. ALSO if the majority votred to lower taxes to 0% while still keeping all the same services, the government would quickly go bankrupt.
Remember this video? "I'm here to get some cash from Obama." Where did that money come from? "Uhhh... I don't rightly know. Maybe his private stash. Hahaha. And he's going to make our taxes zero because he cares for us."
Voters are dumb. THAT voter wanted free money but didn't want to pay taxes to sustain the handouts. The Athens Democracy bankrupted itself because of dumb voters like that. The people were (and still are) not fit to make strong govt decisions
But the dumb voters dont make up the majority. While i agree the congress, electoral college, etc keeps us from making stupid mistakes, we dont need it so much any ore because its not doing what we want anymore. It's making decisions that are in contrast to what we want, as the power they hold is beig abused. This is what OWS stands for. I believe that we are now educated enough, the manority. Its the dumb voters you see that are the really small minority.
And in a large monarchy or despotism, the public good is sacrificed to one view.
You are very wise. But watch your french philosophers. :-)
Haha ok thanks :) glad you liked it
He's afraid of Rousseau. Read next.
What do you mean?
The french philosopher quip... As much as people like to pretend otherwise, the social contract ideas of Locke and Rousseau were important for the Founders. You can find a lot of Rousseau in Paine, Franklin, Jefferson and others... Recommend reading The Social Contract.
To be honest, i know who the philosophers were but not their notable contribuions or how they were used for later documents, i can only correctly say locke was a great influence in the constitution. I wont disagree in saying that rousseau contributed greatly as his ideas were a type of evolution from lockes, similar but not identical. I will read that though, i plan on reading alot of the enlightnment period's books