Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Money is POWER and Occupy has to raise as much as possible.

Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 7, 2011, 8:29 p.m. EST by USCitizenVoter (720)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

If we continue to Ask for money, people will continue to donate money. MONEY FOR OCCUPY IS POWER FOR OCCUPY

67 Comments

67 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by genanmer (822) 13 years ago

Trust is power

And trust is earned through ethical behavior. Like all social movements this is about ethics.

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 13 years ago

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. July 4, 1776.

[-] 1 points by You (62) 13 years ago

no, you need to start a project in support of the movement that has revenue built into the planning. if you want to stay in motion long enough to have an effect, you will have to acknowledge that donations alone are not going to do it.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

I think we need funding to hire our own attorneys and start filing civil lawsuits against them

[-] 1 points by You (62) 13 years ago

i have always said it would be all to easy finding one of these orgs trying to jump in this, and getting them to start legal action on one or two issues as an extension of the movement.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

The one issue is our corrupt government. Don't try to SNOW me Slang-To overwhelm me with insincere talk

[-] 1 points by unarmed (213) 13 years ago

People are power, when they are in unison. If money is more powerful than the will of the people, we don't stand a chance.

[-] 1 points by stevo (314) 13 years ago

Yea...we need to be greedy bastards, to spread the word about how evil greed is.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 13 years ago

If money buys power why cant you buy the gun from the mugger?

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Lots of things can be used as a weapon. People sometimes but not always feel weak if something is being used to intimidate and controll them. Right now we are being controlled by our government for someones greedy intentions, they just haven't stuck a gun to our heads yet. Difference between them is that a mugger is usually disparate and is not thinking rationally but the greedy citizens had a plan and their plan has been in place for years so they don't need a gun.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 13 years ago

Power is simply the ability to make someone do something they ordinarily would not have done. Money never buys real power, it grows from the barrel of a gun: thus when the people really want the power back in their hands they will have to be prepared to take it. At which point the people and the mugger will have so much more in common than today.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Knowledge is also power and with it people will make demands. I feel good about occupy messages to get the corrupt people out of our system. It may take some time for the day of reckoning to happen but it will happen. In the end the occupy movement will be remembered through the ages. --www is power-- got to love the internet.

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 13 years ago

Knowledge is absolutely power when applied to the unknowing. Educating the unknowing requires immense effort. If OWS becomes something it may upset the balance of power, but it may require much more than OWS is able or willing to expend.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

self education in ---Replacing the Federal Government

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 13 years ago

Replacing the Federal Government seems excessive when it is simply the criminals that have infested it that are the problem.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

can we get some justice and file a lawsuit again them?

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 13 years ago

Tribunals will work when the courts fail. The courts have failed.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Are referring to state or federal courts?

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 13 years ago

Military Tribunals seem to do the job the best when the justice system has been corrupted to the point of ineffectual. It is the preferred courtroom of those disenfranchised from justice.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Your smart, any ideas where to file the paperwork to have a military action against them? I'm sick of watching the members of the house and congress act like little kids pouting if they can't get their way. It all stinks.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 13 years ago

The masses becoming united in this movement is the highest power but it does take money to support it.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Absolutely

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 13 years ago

There are other, greater forms of power than money. The power of Occupy is not, and will never be money; but that which is more powerful than money, truth, numbers, innovation and determination! We are not going away, we will win this for the sake of our children and grandchildren!

If people want to contribute money, fine. But If we believe we will ever compete on the basis of money we are dreaming. Fortunately, the power of money is limited - it is the power of truth and determination that will prevail!

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

barb understands the process---The masses becoming united in this movement is the highest power but it does take money to support it.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 13 years ago

Yes, you are right about that, and I certainly have no objection to OWS taking money as long as there is complete trasparency. One concern however, and that is that the ultra-rich will scream that we are hypocrits because we take any money. That is of course completely rediculous and hypocritical and they know it, but they will do it anyway. All you can hope is that the public can see through such nonsence:)

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Who knows? Occupy might get ripped off for some of the money. I'm still donating.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 13 years ago

Good. I don't think you'll get ripped off at all.

[-] 1 points by Lmurguia7 (57) 13 years ago

What is the name of the tax-exempt umbrella that is receiving funds for Occupy?

Thanks.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

NEW YORK: Occupy Wall Street has raised more than $500,000 in New York alone to support anti-greed demonstrations and, seven weeks into the movement, protesters are finding that having money creates headaches.

The challenges have included how to become a non-profit entity, how to deal with credit card companies withholding donations, choosing a bank that shares the movement's philosophy and budgeting what to spend cash on.

The totals raised - more than $500,000 in New York and around $20,000 in Chicago, Richmond and other cities -- have surprised everyone from the protesters to those overseeing their finances.

"I figured they would bring in maybe $10,000, maybe $20,000 and it would be no big deal. They were quickly bringing in that much and more a day," said Chuck Kaufman, the Tucson-based national co-coordinator of Alliance for Global Justice (AFGJ), the movement's fiscal sponsor.

"We were surprised and unprepared so it was a scramble to get our end of the system functioning at the volume the money was coming in."

AFGJ is a non-profit group with roots in Nicaraguan solidarity activism of the 1970s that has since used its tax-exempt status to be a financial umbrella for other groups.

Occupy Wall Street pays 7 percent of its takings for AFGJ's support -- book-keeping, tax returns and donation processing.

Although the Occupy Wall Street finance committee's website lists 87 members, Kaufman said the core was about six people, including a lawyer, an accountant and a tattoo artist.

They deal with more than 400 donations coming in daily via credit card, averaging less than $50 each. Actually getting those donations has proved hard.

In the early days, before switching providers, the alliance took in some $250,000 in donations. Kaufman said credit card processors have held back $75,000 of that, claiming they expect an abnormally high level of disputes on the charges.

He expects the funds to be released in $25,000 increments every two weeks, once October credit card statements start going out.

None of the major credit card networks returned calls for comment on any unusual reserves being taken.

Since the movement switched to the online donation site WePay, another $196,000 has come in, which gets routed like the rest of the money to Occupy Wall Street's bank account.

A survey of Occupy camps across the country reveals each protest is relying on local donations.

Protesters holding the purse strings in New York were keen to stress how expensive the city is and how hard it will be for the movement to sustain itself over the winter.

"People don't understand that this is New York, we pay New York prices," said Pete Dutro, one of the core members of the Occupy Wall Street finance committee.

"These occupations ain't cheap," said Dutro, a tattoo artist who was studying finance at New York University before putting his studies on hold to join the protest.

The movement is keeping its money at Amalgamated Bank, which was started in the 1920s by a garment-workers union and was until recently 100 percent union-owned.

That sole union ownership ended in September just as the protests were starting. Nine days after the demonstrations began, Amalgamated sold 40 percent of its stock to two of America's best-known investors, Wilbur Ross and Ron Burkle.

Ross buys and merges distressed companies in industries such as steel, coal and auto parts. Burkle is best known for his investments in grocery companies and has good relations with unions. Both Ross and Burkle are billionaires.

An Amalgamated spokesman did not return calls for comment. Dutro was wary about Ross and Burkle's stake in Amalgamated but said "the people in that bank and in their management are very committed to their principles, and I really don't see them being co-opted by a couple of vultures."

Representatives for Ross and Burkle did not return calls for comment.

Last Friday, the Occupy Wall Street finance committee made one of its first detailed reports, saying it had spent $55,000 to date, including $22,000 for food, medical care and laundry and $20,000 on communications systems.

Dutro, who has a background in operations management at Internet services companies, said the amount raised so far should be taken in context.

"People see like $500,000 and they say 'Wow that's a lot of money' but the reality is it's not that much money. You have a huge community - we're bigger than most of the occupations -- and we probably spent a lot more money," he said.

While Occupy Wall Street has had attention over its money and whether it should share with movements in other cities, most camps say they are just fine on their own.

"People have come up and said they want to give us contributions from $5,000 to $15,000 but we've told them no," Occupy Chicago's Orion Swann said, adding the group has raised less than $20,000.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 13 years ago

Quote: IKaufman said credit card processors have held back $75,000 of that, claiming they expect an abnormally high level of disputes on the charges.

Credit card processes, Visa, Mastercard etc are even more of an oligopoly than the banks. They were the same instruments used to defund and choke Wikileaks.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Send funds using a money order for best results if you have the cash available.

[-] 1 points by Lmurguia7 (57) 13 years ago

Many thanks for your response to my question. Carrying it a bit further --- what is the most beneficial way to donate to Occupy NY?

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Your time. Educate yourself in the afairs of the worlds governments. Then share what you learn with your family. Every second counts. I read and research 2 to 4 hours per day and I'm in my 50s.

[-] 1 points by Lmurguia7 (57) 13 years ago

Sorry -- make that the WRONG person.

[-] 1 points by Lmurguia7 (57) 13 years ago

I think you answered to the person. My inquiry had to do with the most beneficial vehicle for donating to Occupy NY. It had nothing to do with international affairs, which has been m focus for 50 years.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Please excuse me for the first reply. The most beneficial vehicle for donating to Occupy NY that I have come up with for myself is to commit my financial support to them monthly. With financial support I think the occupy movement can progress and achieve changing our laws. An old saying fight fire with fire, makes me think-- fight money with money--They will be on the TV doing advertising this week.

[-] 1 points by Lmurguia7 (57) 13 years ago

What a good idea but --- through whom?

Appreciatively ---

Lynne

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

the donate tab at the top of this page can offer you choices. here is a link http://www.nycga.net/how-to-help/ --- I prefer to send money orders.---- Their physical address--- 118A Fulton st #205 New York, NY, 10038---- Non perishable, no checks (money orders okay) , any size package okay

[-] 1 points by Lmurguia7 (57) 13 years ago

Ooooppppssss ! Just reread your message and am skeptical about money orders, which can be cashed by anyone. Any idea why no checks? Have you a phone number for that address? (Love money and am not about to put it in danger -- glggle.)

[-] 1 points by Lmurguia7 (57) 13 years ago

Wonderful ! Yu're the only one who's given me a direct donation contact and I spoke to someone with the media group and the Alliance for Global Justice (which takes 7%).

Thanks so much, co-soul.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

I'm glad you feel comfortable donating. 7% is not that bad and the donation is TAX Deductable! Now isn't that a hoot? Your welcome, co-soul

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 13 years ago

So to fight Wall St. become Wall St.?

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Our fight is not directly with wall st. The protest on wall st reflects the results a corrupt government. Were in a fight to change how our government determines what new bills will be voted in as our laws. Fight an old government with a new government. It's will be our voices and votes that determine the outcome. Have you ever seen a presidential candidate get elected without campaign money that he got from donations?

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 13 years ago

Then why are you protesting Wall St? Your name says it.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Be patient. The white house is the next step for the protester.

[-] 1 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 13 years ago

This is stupid

[-] 1 points by colonelingus (13) from Minneapolis, MN 13 years ago

I put $2,190 bucks in a Scott trade deal two weeks ago. Turned it into over 10K-where do I send the profit?

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Donate Tab at the top of this page

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 13 years ago

People is power. Numbers is power. What do you do if you don't have numbers? You lose, or you use money to buy numbers. Look at the tea (Koch) party. Started out spontaneous, and complaining about the same issues we are complaining about. Then the Koch's told them the issues they would pay them to be bussed to rallies to support.

Those who would accept getting their social issues, abortion bans, gay bashing, etc. supported as a package with tax cuts for the rich, dumping regulations protecting the air, water, transportation, drug and food safety, women's health services, student loans, etc..Soon the protestors whose issues got dropped, dropped out of the movement.

Koch party minions made their bargain with the Koch machine to sell their their interests, the children's interests and their country's interests for a social agenda of government intrusion into people's private lives.

Numbers that are bought can evaporate in an instant. When people realize that have been played for suckers they will change horses in a heartbeat. Numbers based on facts and conviction are loyal numbers and best of all they are free.

We need numbers more than money. We need numbers not lobbyists. We need numbers to demonstrate that we have the power. POWER is power. POWER is speech. Money is what we have earned and what they have taken from us. Power is what will stop that.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

I'm with you the more people protesting in the streets equals more power for our movement. That's why everyone should be involved. Now using good common sense thinking--- "fight fire with fire"---for us that means--- "fight money with money"--- you can't fight a war if your standing on the field naked. All types of shelter and supplies are going to be needed to support occupy to endure years of occuping. You see I think it is going to take years to get the processes of our current government to change.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 13 years ago

I prefer using water, I do agree we are in for a long haul. We will never match in money, they are the 1% after all. But I maintain that it isn't necessary. Don't tell me we need to hire you as our lobbyist.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

I agree dollar for dollar would be impossible and is not necessary. The movement needs just enough funding to support a 50 state occupy organization and I can not begin to estimate how much funding it may take. The shear volume of our citizens are the equalizers. No I could never become a lobbist but I can see you sense of humor coming out. You had me LOL there for a moment. I made myself a promiss years ago that I would never let anybody steal my joy. Thank you for commenting.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 13 years ago

There was some on this site soliciting our support as a lobbyist. Yes, I was pulling your leg. I am a little frustrated with what I see as idle chatter, racial and religious bickering and other distracting garbage the is taking our attention from the import work we have to do.

I am impatient and I believe that at this stage the most important accomplishment for us is to grow the numbers in any that can be counted or assessed and reported. The media is impressed because theyhave seen astroturf and we aren't it. That means that our numbers are of a different nature than Tea Party numbers.

So I am very serious, which to me isn't incompatible with a little humor.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

I know how feeling and our nations leaders can't seem to understand that our governments system is broken and up to now it was their jobs to repair it. It's crazy when the house votes on a bill they will sit on their rear ends and pout like their a baby if they don't get their way. I see them as a bunch of losers. Bottom line they have forced the citizens to boot them out for not doing their jobs.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 13 years ago

I don't think they are clueless. They are inside a bubble that is 90% going to lobbyists little get-together's to pick up several $2500. checks and they do it almost every day, while listening to lobbyist's distorted views of reality that say 'you are an idiot if you don't vote the way I say and, by the way, here is a packet with the talking points to justify it and a CD with the amendment to drop in with the right language and see again next week.'

Been there and seen it. Have an old acquaintance who was CEO of a BIG lobbying firm. GOT TO GET THE MONEY OUT.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Holly Shit! What a racket...$$$$

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 13 years ago

Hey! It's hard work. It takes a lot of checks to add up to a million dollars. And if your office staff pastes in the wrong amendment (sometimes after it passed, and this has actually happened) it can be embarrassing.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

like I said what a racket

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 13 years ago

We all need to de-occupy, go home to our cities, support our local economies, rent halls for assemblies and hand out/advertise such assemblies to invite the 99% to educate and do protests. This is what our donations should be used for. We have to get the 99% with us. Right now the majority of them are still living in la la land. Camping out is not the answer nor is it attractive and it breaks the law. OWS mission and complaints are very serious and we the US as well as other countries are in great financial trouble.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

I agree with you about living in the streets and camping out that should be limited to maybe around 3 to 7 days then only when street protesting activities like marches are happening. That could minimise the worthless publicity about how awful some of the occurrences are and they are happening because some of the attending groups in the spot lights are not even part of occupy. I also agree with you that when you suggest occupy needs to rent halls for assemblies and hand out/advertise such assemblies to invite the 99% to educate and do protests. Occupys mission is a very serious process indeed and it's too bad our country had to go broke before the movement was started.

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 13 years ago

Yes, I am afraid these protests should have started years ago. I am afraid that the financial collapse is already set in motion to happen and that may not be a bad thing because the American way of life in the past is not sustainable. If people start planning and preparing now to be more self sustainable and create communities which at least OWS is bringing people together and they are actually talking with each other. Now if we just could all get along!

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Some things like the first step just take the most effort. But the effort can become simple the second time around. It's not too late and that what's important.

[-] -2 points by justaguy (91) 13 years ago

You know NOTHING about the Tea Party. What you say is just non-sense that you and others perpetuate because you read it somewhere.

But hey, if your paranoid life works for you then that is great.

[-] 1 points by Socrates469bc (608) from New York, NY 13 years ago

Justaguy, greetings to you. Most tea party folks like yourself are good honest people, however, they have been manipulated and drugged with too much Koch. See for yourself in this impartial report from of all broadcasters, Al Jeezera:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOCHAv25uTw

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 13 years ago

Who funds Americans for Prosperity and the rest of the funder's of the Teas party? Who provided the buses? Who organized the rallies? All documented. We can read.

Refutation or sarcasm? Facts matter.

[-] 0 points by USCitizenVoter (720) 13 years ago

Are my donations stupid

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 13 years ago

Not necessarily, just don't expect that the way to win is to raise more money than they do. Can't do it. Don't need to, fortunately.