Forum Post: Lets Look @ Occupy Numbers
Posted 11 years ago on Feb. 2, 2013, 9:30 a.m. EST by OTP
(-203)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Ok, so this thing was incredible in late 2011. Freakin awesome. Ive never felt energy like that. All sorts of people coming together to declare "The shit is fucked up".... What an incredible experience.
Here is a chart that track activity. One can see that unique visitors to this site is almost dead. But interestly, those who visit are staying here quite longer. This could mean a few things, of which I would be interested in discussing.
The tabs over the graph are how you change the stats.
Traffic rank and Reach are how one tells about the overall popularity of a site. It was very high in late 2011 and early 2012 and now is almost nothing.
Pageviews and TimeonSite are, however, very very high in comparision to 2011. So the ones who are here are spending a lot of time here, and there arent too many outsiders coming on board. I think this is related to the forum here. Lets face it, we spend a lot of time here, either to argue, work on our debate skills, work on our writing, or get feedback on ideas and concepts.
Bottom line, it was awesome in 2011. Activism is a shell of itself now from what it was during that special moment. So how do we rekindle?
Should it be an Occupy rekindle? Or something new?
Were aspects of Occupy self defeating? Or simply taking a while to catch on?
The first step to recovery is to admit there is something wrong. So how do we get it back?
I think it was the police intervention that kept the numbers down. It kept regular people off the streets. For the numbers to be big you need regular people who are not normally activists. These people do not want to be pepper sprayed and end up in hand cuffs for sitting on a sidewalk. I don't blame the anarchists, hell, they were courageous enough to start this thing. I blame Bloomberg and every local government around this country that shut down the occupations and arrested peaceful protesters. So, the numbers being down here on this site is a reflection of the numbers being down in the movement as a whole. Because, OTP, in America, you aren't as free as you think you are. Even the FBI was all over this movement, a peaceful movement seeking to bring about economic fairness. My god. Think about that.
Which is why we have to work that much harder - but those that come on board now should be more realists then before.
Good point re: realism. The police will be after you if you sit peacefully on a sidewalk.
Yep
You are loitering - move along now - there is no good reason for you to be sitting here - Resting? - nope sorry - til you fall over from exhaustion and I have to call a squad c..... um ambulance - you just keep moving.
This is why I argue that we must move our protests into the voting booth.
If there were only someone to vote for who might have a chance at winning.
I think we will have to wage politics with ideas and Constitutional ideals, at the ballot box, before we will get any candidates of the necessary caliber.
Jill Stein was very good. I voted for her. The Green Party's platform is excellent. The problem is that they can't win unless more people wake up.
People have to wake up I agree. but once awake they MUST get the election/campaign rules changed to allow fair 3rd party access.
Agreed.
I voted for Jill. "[T]hey can't win unless more people wake up." I agree completely. Are you willing to discuss a possible "radical" solution that operates within the Constitution, but outside twin-party politics? A democratic "wake up" call...
I would be, yes. We are not living in a democracy right now, but a plutocracy. The two party system is a failure.
Yes, it is a failure. A corrupt failure. How do you view the Constitution?
also I think you meant to say police brutality and oppression, not police intervention.
the first arrests killed our already small numbers in Omaha.
You can't protest at 11pm!!!!!!!!
Arrested for holding a sign at 11pm. City ordinance they said. Gotta arrest you they said. Just following orders. 1st amendment we said. City ordinance they said.
Wow. It simply amazes me how Americans think they are so free, when in fact, they are not.
I tell that to people all the time.
We have slave fields in Immokalee Florida. We have the largest for profit prison system in the world that lobbies for harsh prison terms so they can profit from them and their slave labor.
Supreme court ruled "strip searches for everyone" is acceptable. - I call that rape.
Great points.
You can't invade a sovereign nation either, or bomb an allied nation, but obomya and shrub don't recognise international law.
Tell your local cops that you are living in a lawless nation, ruled by lawless tyrants.
You're still in denial. Occupy had many problems caused by it's own self. Hiding their anarcho-communism, purposefully setting up confrontations with police, unclear goals and demands, etc... In a nutshell, Occupy had no long term plan. It was meant to be short lived.
In a little more than a year we've already begun changing the country and the world. We are gonna be and need to be around a long time. We will keep doing what we are doing and momentum will build as we grow. "meant to be short lived"? Sounds like wishful thinking.
I hope you're right.
Time will tell. but things are still goin in the right direction.
If you are planning on writing a book on the death of Occupy, I would suggest holding off. The Chicago Tribune made a simular mistake in 1948 when it jumped the gun and......
~Odin~
I'm not saying Occupy is dead, but it's on life support with a few nurses assisting it. It certainly doesn't have the energy of the beginning, that's dead. It's something else now.
I assure you that Occupy is not on "life support"
Perhaps oldJohn.. you have confused who are in the team of surgeons...who is the patient...... and who are the are the nurses... in your cute..... little... misguided analogy
Your bleak prognosis is more appropiate for the patient who has yet to awaken from the overdose of anaesthesia that has been administered to him for the past 30 plus years,
Maybe you have forgotten that the patient's body has the wonderful ability to heal itself, with a little help from his surgeons
Anyway the nurse giving that prognosis shouldn't really be doing so, as he lacks the creds,
And will probably never understand the mettle, or the tenacity it takes to become a successful surgeon, nor for that matter, will he ever understand the ability for the patient to RECOVER...REBUILD, and ...RESIST.
Finally oldman the meds you prescribe seem very simular to the ones that big pharma offers up
They may alleviate the pain for a while, but they will never cure the illness. For that it takes PERSEVERANCE
Which from the negativsm that you dispaly in your comments, it is easy to see that is a quality that you obviously lack.
~Odin~
Let's hope you're right.
We cannot confuse our struggle being difficult, with it being futile,
Nor can we ignore the fact that there are so many bright, determined people working hard for its success.
These admirable people have learned from their mistakes, and have moved on, much in the same ways that most people do in their everyday lives
Do not underestimate the reslove of these mostly young people, and if you do not share in it,
And are no happy here, you should follow your heart, and go someplace where you are, rather than be a dragging anchor on this ship
~Odin~
Then, why are you still hanging around?
I hang around this forum because it's fun, entertaining, and an addiction from time to time. I don't consider this Internet space as having anything to do with Occupy. Most people here never went to a protest, and the postings never ever talk about the news articles posted by Occupy. There's absolutely no connection between this forum and Occupy. Ideas discussed here have little to do with Occupy, and they are never put into practice by Occupy. It's just talk in the wind, but that can be fun sometimes. I don't come here that much anymore, just from time to time. Basically, what we have here is a bunch of lonely retired folks who are addicted to this site instead of being addicted to TV. That's kinda cool because online discussions are more interesting than TV. How's your forum addiction these days?
You are such a useless blowhard.
Nope. He's a 'useful' "blowhard", imo !!!
verum ex absurdo et multum in parvo !!
LOL :) "The Revolution is Love" I wish this even for him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRtc-k6dhgs
Ditto & http://occupywallst.org/forum/questioning-occupys-tone-blog-post/#comment-923286 .
pax et lux ; nunc et semper ; hic et ubique ...
Awesome comment. The trolls continue to abound here, a good sign, perhaps?
I am thinking a concerted effort will be put forth by the trolls leading up to the Feb. 17 protest.
Yes. Remember May Day last year? Trolls galore.
I was thinking kinda the same thing myself - different topics ( somewhat ) - but a repeat in the attacks on the site - as last year.
Trolls love wastelands. It comes from living in the filthy muck below a bridge.
This comment nails the reasons why you are here.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/questioning-occupys-tone-blog-post/#comment-923286
Agree - always a defeatist edge to the shit it says.
No, my stance is just different than yours. I believe a movement must be as best as it can be and I believe it can only achieve that if it accepts critiques. Otherwise, you simply can't improve. Why are you scared to identify the weakness of Occupy so that we can palliate them? Do you think Occupy is perfect? You interpret my position as being defeatist, I interpret yours as being that of a cult follower, always agreeing that everything is perfect amongst the cult. That's what kills most cults. You need to be able to step back once in awhile to look at the big picture and see what could be improved. That's why I keep telling you to take a few days off and take some walks. Fresh air will do you good.
Oh go play with yourselves.Your junk-foo is weak.
Perhaps weak, but correct nonetheless. A walk outside would do you good. I'm sure everyone would agree.
In your view, and that's fine. But it totally misses my point for being here. We each have opinions, and sometimes those vary. That's a good thing. My opinion is that you're here because you have a forum addiction. But that's just my opinion, just as worthy as shadz66's.
In any case, an appeal to motive is a logical fallacy. Don't worry about why a poster is here, worry about his ideas and arguments. They can't be countered by logical fallacies. That's what people use as a last recourse. Shadz66 is unable to counter my arguments, so he uses all kinds of logical fallacies: appeal to motive, ad hominem, etc... It's fine and I accept that, but it doesn't lead anywhere.
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"[I]t was a mistake to assume that a single philosophy or organizing principle itself could provide solutions - it cannot. It is the overwhelming agreement of the people that will produce solutions. In the current political climate, where corporate interests sit in shadow and wield such influence over government, it will take vast numbers of citizens acting in agreement that this must end if we are to make it end."
I agree completely.
I agree. Some great success. But not dealing with those issues, no leaders, not acknowledging political nature, etc, we're fatal flaws. Still we must keep the lighted spark illuminating as best as possible, till there is an improved path.
What we should do is consider sending out Ows people to file for office and fight politically for every job held by a corrupt politician ....that might keep our issues alive, and they might loose a few seats, if we're holding them accountable for their positions.
http://www.completecampaigns.com/article.asp?articleid=13
Why not a have everyone take survey in their area. This could be an open question for instance "What are they willing to stand for to support us helping to make something change?" Or a list to prioritize of import. We can pinpoint where the public is in terms of supporting our move forward and could also count those numbers as actual support without the people needing to do anything not even give their name. I did mention in post yesterday about conference Ken Kesey organized direct democracy was the goal the term that hold a clue for us today is "Media Referendum". I know not how but it is there.
One day, a man walks into a bar with an ostrich and a cat. The man orders a beer, and so does the ostrich. The cat orders half a pint, and refuses to tip the bartender. The bartender tells them their bill is $10.78. The man reaches into his pocket and gets exactly $10.78. The next day, the man, the ostrich and the cat go back to the bar. They order the same thing as the day before, and again the cat is really rude to the bartender and won't tip him. The bartender tells them that their bill is $10.78. The man reaches into his pocket and gets exactly $10.78. The next day, the man, the ostrich and the cat go back into the bar. This time the man and the ostrich order a double scotch. The cat orders a scotch and is rude to the bartender. The bartender smiles to himself, knowing that there is no chance the man will get the exact amount of money, and he's getting pissed at the cheapskate cat. He tells the man that their bill is $15.63. The man reaches into his pocket and gets the exact change! The bartender is astonished. He asks the man how he always gets the right amount of change. The man tells him, "Well, one day I came across a lamp. I rubbed it and a genie came out. He told me I could have any three wishes I wanted. My first wish was that I could reach into my pocket and get the exact change of anything I was buying." "Very smart," said the bartender. "My second wish was to have a high tolerance for alcohol." "Good choice!" the bartender exclaimed. "What was your third wish?" "Well, that wasn't too bright on my part. I wished for a chick with long legs and a tight pussy."
In regards to the "not political" aspect, I suggest reading up on every other successful movement in the US that never achieved political power. MlK and Malcolm X did not run for office.
Also the antipolitical theme was based around propagandists pushing for the establishment, which OWSers had no intention of backing.
No politician came down to OWS and to push the OWS message either.
Honestly I'm tired of the "no clear message" fox news and corporateedia bullshit too. The message was absolutely clear.
Also I absolutely agree people should rise up and run for office. This is not the purpose of OWS though. If someone tries to mention the tea party, I will slap them in the face with a giant Koch.
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Now you're using the term political differently.
OWS has political power in the regard that it poses a threat to the system.
OWS has not achieved a role in the political structure however, which is what I meant in my previous comment, there is no OWS congressman. There is no OWS president. However OWS did get just about every single politician to acknowledge OWS.
OWS had so much power in that regard that they had police harassing and brutalizing protesters.
May I suggest rethinking your outlook?
The current political system is a fraud. It is a charade hosted by corporations and banks that hire puppets.
What threat?
defeating the corporate takeover takes the 1% out of power.
"every politician"? It might be most honest to clearly state that the republicans (to a man!) have all denounced OWS, while democrats have embraced the language, and some of the agenda (although not to the same extent on any issue). Isn't that an important truth?
that is some bullshit right there. It is not truth.
You are correct in saying "republicans have denounced OWS." But democrats haven't done shit for OWS.
Democrats work for the god damn banks just like the republicans do.
Do I need to show you the TARP voting record? The GLB Act?
The 2 parties are 2 factions of the corporate state - Noam Chomsky
Need I remind you our country is still at war for imperialism?
Ok. Sorry to upset you. I didn't say Democrats have done anything for OWS. So I guess there was a miscommunication.
I agree with Chomsky, he's great, And Zinn (when he was alive) and R Wolf as well.
I guess I was talking about all the Dems who expressed support for OWS and the ideals we espouse As well as utilizing our language to get elected. I was also suggesting that Democrats have not denounced OWS as all republians have.
So no Democrats haven't done anything FOR OWS and I never said that so your criticism is misplaced.
My apologize if I was unclear.
My criticism was perfectly placed to your lie that democrats have embraced "much of the agenda" and language of OWS.
i suppose reasonable people can disagree on issues of opinion without calling each other liars. I'm certainly not gonna defend democrats as I am more of a progressive.
I know my opinion is based in facts and I know you losing your cool indicates your weakness.
Good day sir.
Calling me weak just shows your hypocrisy on this issue.
The 2 party system, the democrats, and republicans work for corporations and banks. They in no way work for the desires of OWS. That is a fact.
I have no problem calling a lie a lie when it is factually accurate to call something a lie.
This isn't an opinion on a belief. We are talking fact.
Sorry if you don't like the word bullshit.
I don't like propaganda for the 2 factions of the corporate state, and when you make bold lies like in your above comment, you will be called out on it.
This forum already has enough people flooding 2 party system propaganda.
I havn't lied. I offered my opinion the the democrats have embraces the language of OWS. That is true.
You accused my 2x of stating that I said Democrats "work for Ows" and/or "democrats have done something for OWS" I never said anything of the kind. Those are your lies about me.
YOU are lying. Why? You are attributing comments to me I haven't made! Intelligent people know that you are creating a straw man (fake issue) in order to knock it down (attack me.) That proves weakness on your part. I haven't liad! YOU have! I'm not being hypocritical, I think you need to look up the proper use of the word.
You are clearly not playing with a full deck. Please do not respond I don't converse with lying, unstable people.
it is 100% false. IT IS A LIE. Where are the democrats saying "jail the banksters"
Where are the democrats saying "banks got bailed out we got sold out" - instead they say "bailing out the banks saved the economy."
Where are the democrats accusing corporations of using slave labor overseas?
Where are the democrats saying the wars are imperialism and murder?
Where are the democrats when OWS is protesting? How many from congress have come down to the front line to join in marches?
Sorry they haven't adopted the language of OWS and they haven't done shit for the OWS agenda.
You were claiming that democrats adopted OWS language and the OWS agenda. And that is a damn lie.
there might be one or 2. like Dennis Kucinich or Alan Grayson, but that's about it. But to claim that democrats, as in the majority of them, that is a damn lie.
Please do not push propaganda for the corporate system on this webstie.
Pfffffft! Harassing liar! I never said dems adopted anything. Stop lying.
You verbatim said "democrats have embraced the language, and some of the agenda"
THAT IS A LIE
Where are the democrats saying the banks and corporations have taken over the government?
Pfffffffft! Harrassing liar!
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Back in the day, many forum users said exactly what you're saying now and they were marked as trolls. You come in way late with your remarks and get 7 points! It's ironic.
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Very true. I was just saying these views were considered trollish a year ago, now they are considered obvious.
Yeah, i haven't seen those kind of numbers since before VQkag got caught with multiple pseudonyms.
~Odin~
Ya, he was manipulating votes with DKAtoday. I remember quite well.
Back in the day, anarchists ran OWS by a tyranny of the minority (block).
Ya, they did, and I wrote about it. I was treated as a troll and banned from this forum. No one listened. Occupy was a cult. If you said one bad thing about it, one critique, you were a troll. You had to agree with everything. Be a good boy and tell us why we are great. Occupy killed it's own self.
You went to GAs. How far off was I in this posting:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-anarchic-dilemma-do-anarchies-self-destruct/
I just had a read of that thread. The responses to the dilemma you posed were remarkably childish and petulant, and utterly dismissive of the possibility you might be right. Childish arrogance combined with bullheaded ignorance -- hardly the stuff of which great social movements are made, and regrettably, very typical of a good many folks around here. And why OWS will never go anywhere.
Indeed. Extremely unfortunate because we do need a great movement to make a better world. It just needs smart people at the helm.
Excellent thread. The pure democracy conundrum; either a tyranny of the majority or of the minorities. Good to read your work again Thrash.
Thanks.
A list of basic demands would have been incredible. Many tried, and all failed. 99% Movement came out with some, and occupiers everywhere started declaring they arent affiliated.
I saw many great organizers leave because of the chaos and lack of clear achievable goals.
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Really? And you have no idea?
auargent
Shayneh
highlander
Shall I go on?
I believe that the main occupy websites (this one and a few others) traffic is more related to the amount of overall activism in the comimunity. There were certainly a lot of trolls from Sept to May '12.
I have my ideas, just trying to stir conversations....
The success of Occupy reaches to infinity it will be credited as the point of turning.Belief carries intentions and skeptic thought buries them. It has been fine for us to say nothing rather than attach in any way to this current mess and language,schemes. We can do better and the mystery is growing with public rather than being lost or gone. They look to occupy people with pleading eyes and know we are not through nor were we full of shit. I think they are more likely figuring it is going to be good and work and may rescue them from escalating guilt yes that is crediting humans with far more than they seem to think that is okay. I mentioned survey type feelers for some insight to what level of support public can do that occupy people can be doing now before next move. That would pave the way knowing we have the peoples support. Actually it would be more official than this crock being the peoples will makes it a done deal.
Occupywallst.org is relatively popular among users in the city of Nanchong (where it is ranked #1,543). Hm...government strategy org or think tank?
The website numbers are not a valid reflection of OWS success. The success in pushing the country a bit closer to our ideals would indicate we are doing something right. And so the best thing to do is more of the same. This website could have some improvements made but I don't know what.
I though Occupy was the 99% - how come this doesn't reflect that?