Forum Post: Lack of relationship between pay and effort
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 12:29 p.m. EST by kriman
(5)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This is a fight for justice, there is no relationship between pay and effort.
We have bosses making $150-350,000 and even more per year. Meanwhile other employees with similar qualifications are making $50-80,000/year.
However, we all know that people at the lower levels are doing all the work, meanwhile our bosses are getting all the glory, the bonuses and the high pay.
With that being said, I don't believe that an executive should make more than 3 times what the lowest paid employee makes in his/her organization.
Some executives might justify this injustice by saying that their job demand a lot of responsibility and thinking. If that so, we should balance out "responsibility and thinking VS doing all the work", so all employees should have similar salaries.
What do you think ?
Agreed, so start the war against Injustice by starting our own banks to double the income of the Bottom 99% of Workers, for many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 1% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves, and thus doubling our income from Bank Profits which are 40% of all Corporate Profits; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo
Join http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Online Congress, and related “new” Businesses, REPLACING the "old" Congress, and related “old” Businesses, according to your current Occupations & Generations, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet, a political opportunist, just like today; what's important is the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing Power & Group Investment Power. In this, sequence is key, and if the correct mathematical sequence is followed then it results in doubling the income of the Bottom 99% of Workers from today's Bank Profits, which are 40% of all Corporate Profits.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 1% Management System of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupations & Generations.
So JOIN the 2nd link, and spread the word, so we can make 100,000 support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.
As I have said before, people are fine working for non-working bums as long as they are already rich or kissed the right asses, but wont lift a finger to help the so called "non-working bums" that actually need help.
if you think you are underpaid, go to a competitor if they pay better. if you can do the job of your boss better, get promoted, or go to that level at another employer, or even start your own business. if you don't do any of these things, maybe you aren't worth as much as you think you are?
Whether you are a big executive or whether you dream about becoming one, I can't see from your comment that you are part of the problem that America faces nowadays.
You probably believe that you are superior to other people and deserve to live a live of richness meanwhile other people bearly make it from month to month.
Thank you for your opinion,
Dr. Alex Kriman
i think my comments were on how a real healthy economic system works and values labor - how pay and effort are associated as per the topic.
i think your comment adds no value to the discussion and i doubt many real doctors spell the word barely as "bearly".
Horrible idea. There is no one size fits all solution.
If we didn't have corporations, then we wouldn't have CEOs wasting their lives "thinking" so much.
Sometimes I feel as if corporations just ruined society by killing independently owned stores and manufacturers. I work at a deli counter in a super market, and I find it disgusting that there's even a deli in the super market. I find it even more disgusting that we ship our meat from Virginia. Why can't we ship our products from New York?
The idea of a CEO is just laughable! What does he do? He makes sure "operations are running smoothly" and managing "business acquisitions" and "synergy." What utter bologna! The CEO only exists in this capacity because the corporation cuts out the independent thought and actions of the actual manufacturers and workers. Corporations are killing individuality.
I just can't stand it. People waste their whole lives "thinking" when they could be doing something with their hands. I have a college degree (in English) and I can't stand the mentality that working with your mind is more successful than working with your body.
the only thing that separates man from animal is our mind.
if you want to stop using your brain... by all means.
just don't call yourself homo sapien (latin for wise man).
Listen, there's a big difference between Thinking (and I mean Thinking in the ways that Jesus, Plato, Socrates, Buddha, Shakespeare, Milton, Rembrandt, Picasso, and Martin Luther used their mind) and the way a CEO manages things. That's dog thinking. That's stuff anybody can do. That stuff's not hard.
really any one can do ? I wonder why Apple was almost dead before they brought Steve back as CEO?
then do it.
:-P
That does sound pretty fair... though I can't complain about making $13 an hour to sit on my butt all day and mark videos, take a break whenever I want/need to, (eat at my desk!!!), or even play on the internet blatantly when there isn't work that needs to be done.
Gotta feel sorry for the mexicans that do all that wonderful labor for peanuts a day though... i've done remodeling and landscaping for 15 years, and minimum wage is a BITCH for that kind of work. $15-$20 an hour is much more forgiving.
it is not fair that tiger woods gets paid millions a year just to appear in an advertisement.
i can do that to. they should pay me.
I think you nailed it.
Why not just work hard and become an executive?
Because working hard is not just about management and financial planning. Hard, intelligent, important work, is also about engineering, programming, designing, writing, healing etc. Sure, some work is not as critical, but it's still important and it still needs to be done well, and the people doing it need to be fairly rewarded for it. It's silly to think that everyone is cut out to be an executive or that society would profit if they were. Management is a skill set, an important one, but still one among many.
Look, until the mid 1970s, the average ratio of CEO to employee income was around 27-30. Then suddenly, in the early 1980s it began a dramatic rise, and it started going real crazy in the 1990s. In 2000, it was 525, then it went down for a bit, but now its climbing back to high 400s. That's crazy. Pure and simple. I might be ready to accept that the work a CEO does is 30 times as valuable as that of an average employee. Maybe. But 400 times? No. Never. It might only seem so if the financial sector becomes as bloated and dysfunctional as it has, and we fall for the illusion that shuffling money around and gambling on stock market trends is really a valid way to create wealth.
Lots of CEO are measured on a very straightforward metric called Revenue Per Employee, or RHC. It goes by different names in different board rooms. In the same period you state RHC went from 60k for a great company to some now approaching a mil/hc. These don't make the big bucks on salary. They make it on stock. Stock that they largely influenced by raising RHC. The investors approve all stock based comp in publicly held companies. And sometimes, when a company is wicked successful these guys get mega rich. Is a CEO reporting 4B in profit worth 25$m a year in salary? You bet your sweet ass he is! And if you eliminate that opportunity he's going to Asia for it, or Latam. Here's the kicker. Anybody can buy the same stock. This is how Googles part time massage therapist became an overnight millionaire. This is how every 80's employee at MS became a millionaire, and it's how your parents 401k affords them a retirement. As long as the individual consumer is seeing 10% returns on his paltry 10,000 shares, they will vote to keep the good CEO. And one final point, those engineers, designers, programmers: they usually get stock too. For free!
Oh I agree the system is internally consistent. But the fact that a company's worth is more tied to how cleverly it's executives play around on the financial market is what's fundamentally wrong. Partly because all that "wealth creation" isn't taxed in any way. Partly because it does not actually produce anything. Stock exchange and getting capital to companies so they can do shit is great. I don't personally think a resource based economy would work, managing money and getting it were it needs to go is a worthwhile service in the larger economic context. But you can't have a circular and autotelic financial market.
Well I guess you can. But it should be pretty damn obvious that the weaker the correlation between a company's success and what it provides to it's customers gets, the less free market works for the good of society.
I'm not saying companies are stupid to invest into what actually makes them their money. I'm saying the relationship they see with clarity is fucked up. Investors being the real clients of companies may sound reasonable to you, but it really isn't.
As for the CEOs fleeing to other countries I agree. It's nothing new. At the national level too there were robber barons before people realized that an unregulated free market doesn't actually produce very nice results.
Well put.