Forum Post: justify, please
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 2, 2011, 10:28 p.m. EST by justify
(16)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I simply don't see the logic in this movement. The less wealthy 99% getting mad at and confronting the richest 1% is no different than all but one of the kids in a class beating up the kid that got the highest test score which you all tell your kids not to do. It is illogical to become frustrated with someone because they achieved greater things than you through trying harder. I'm a senior in high school, my parents are upper middle class because they tried slightly harder than the norm. I plan to be part of your so called 1% by being the 1% that did the most work
"I simply don't see the logic in this movement"
Your statement says more about your comprehension ability and honesty than anything else. If you don’t see the logic in these protest then you aren’t smart enough to be in the 1% (nobody said they were stupid).
Actually it appears that you are in denial and are afraid to even allow yourself to understand. You don’t even acknowledge that this is all about corporate greed (not jealousy as you simple-mindedly imply). I suppose in your mind that is just all made stuff and a bunch of sore losers
You will be enlightened in days to come
That was rude and unworthy of you. When someone says "I simply don't see the logic in this..." one is indicating they may be willing to listen to a reasonably logical explanation, even if it is an over simplified one.
Thank you, that is what i was trying to get at, apparently he thought differently.
When someone is not bright enough to perceive the obvious or “pretends” not to see it and then tries to define in a condescending manor, they get what they ask for
I have no tolerance for phonys
Then you must miss many opportunities.
Damn Joe. You're a good debater, a free thinker, and very passionate.
Thanks, I guess?
I just try to be straght forward and call it like I see it, which is not always right but always comes from trying to be honest
Justify. Your attitude is so much like a one percenter I recently debated, that I'm going to repost my reply to him. Just for you.
Again, you absolutely refuse to acknowledge the primary issue. The single greatest underlying cause. This relentless concentration of wealth and resources has gone virtually uninterrupted for 35 Years now. That's half a lifetime. It started slowly in the mid '70's and accelerated under Reagan. It slowed under Clinton and accelerated again under Bush. Overall, its taken place under both Democratic and Republican rule. Now, it's at record levels. There is not one shred of evidence to suggest that it might reverse anytime soon. Not one shred. Its gone too God damn far. Period. Way too God damn far. That's not simple ideology. It's simple math. An absolute deal breaker.
I'm lower middle class but I'm OK with that. Its where I belong. Its where I feel comfortable. I have no dependents. I'm in perfect health. I'm doing fine. I'm not here for myself. I'm here for millions who struggle to make ends meet. Especially those who are trying to raise families under this record high cost of living. I'm not making excuses for their irresponsible spending habits but I am well aware of their hardship. Whats been happening for 35 years now is a profound injustice. An outrage. Meanwhile, you get even richer reducing their relative buying power in the process. I'm absolutely convinced that it's going to get worse.
So when you sit there and tell me that I should be willing to enter into a "meaningful discussion" with you, after 35 years of injustice from which you benefit and they lose, it's sort of like a rapist trying to negotiate with me over just how much my mother should bleed. The answer is 'no'. Stop concentrating so much God damn wealth. No? That's what I thought. Therefore, I have no choice but to persecute you and the rich in general until the lower 90 percent of Americans own a reasonable share of United States wealth. Until, you let go of your incredible greed. Until you have a little less and they have enough to get by in relative comfort. They God damn well deserve it.
They did every bit as much as your bunch have to build this country. They built our roads, built our furniture, built our homes, taught our children, fought our fires, caught the criminals, picked up the garbage, fixed our cars, and fought our wars. Many gave their lives in the process. They God damn well deserve more than 20 percent of our nation's wealth. THEY GOD DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!
So don't you even try to negotiate with me unless you're willing to start with an admission that they deserve more than 20 percent of our nation's wealth. A lot more. If you are willing to admit that, then we can talk about 'growing the pie'. But don't even try to feed me some BS about a rising tide lifting all ships. It's not that simple and it never will be until you filthy rich pigs grow a spine and admit that it hasn't for the last 35 God damn years. Any growth must benefit the lower 90 percent more than it benefits you. A lot more. Otherwise, no deal.
I never said that the relentless concentration of wealth was the only factor driving up national debt. Of course, there are other factors. But if you are not willing to admit the COW as one factor, then you are a coward and a liar.
Of course, the corporations have rigged the system. But the corporations are run primarily by the richest one percent. Most members of congress are the richest one percent. Lobbyists, investors, bankers, developers, ect. All members of the one percent club. The motive is greed. Always greed. It's not the system. It's the people running the system. The rich. It's their motive. Greed. God damn spoiled rotten black hearted greed. Whatever takes to get more of our money. Whatever it takes to concentrate more wealth in their favor. Admit, that and maybe we can have a "meaningful discussion". No? That's what I thought.
The root cause sure as hell is the COW. Getting fatter by the day. The process in which that COW gets fatter. The intention to get fatter at our expense. GREED.
You're willing to pay more taxes? Enough to reverse the concentration of wealth for a few years? Bullshit. Your club lobbied for the current tax structure. Loaded with loopholes. Nothing but a room full of smoke and mirrors in which you get richer and the lower 90 percent get poorer. It's not the system. It's the people running the system. The richest one percent. Your club hired the corporate lobbyist. Not ours. Your club did do with one primary goal. To get even richer. To concentrate even more US wealth. To win the game.
If your club wants me to believe for one second that you want unity, then you must be willing to settle for less. At least until the lower 90 percent own a reasonable share of this nation's bottom line wealth. THEY GOD DAMN WELL DESERVE IT!
No? That's what I thought. No deal.
He's a stupid right-wing troll, he's just trying to deceive you because he can't think of any other way to oppose OWS.
yeah, today has seen surprisingly many people who claim to be in high school posting questions their 1% parents want to ask...must be a new tactic...
I think that to call it a "tactic" implies a degree of (albeit misguided) intelligence. The stupid liar is a stupid liar --- this is not a "tactic", this is a way of being.
You call me condescending and insulting? What do you think that crap you wrote was?
I was merely reflecting your attitude of trying to portray OWS as a juvenile movement that was based on jealousy and envy.
You “pretend” to not see the logic because you want to define it in your terms.
I really don’t care to have a conversation with disingenuous phony.
I just wanted to point out who you really are to the other people. Thanks for giving me a second opportunity to expand on that
Stupid troll is stupid.
Hey, question for you. If the only way you can think of to oppose OWS is to tell stupid lies ... doesn't that kinda prove that OWS is right? 'Cos otherwise you could oppose OWS by telling the truth.
He is not smart enough to comprehend what the movement is about yet he is smart enough to work his way into the 1%!
I think maybe mommy and daddy have been giving him trophys for 10th place and he thinks he is a winner
Your ravings do not answer my question nor relate to anything else on this thread.
Well, I guess that's par for the course.
My question still stands. If you can only oppose OWS by lying, does that not imply that there is no truthful ground upon which they can be opposed?
Sorry I guess I blew by your question
It does imply they don't have valid arguments, why else would they be using lies, unless it is deliberate propagnada designed to change minds that they think is more effective than truth
Thank you for admitting that.
But I should like a little more psychological insight. When you yourself decided to degrade yourself with lies ... what were you thinking?
If you could tell me that, you'd answer a riddle that's been teasing me for years. (Right-wing nutters opposed to OWS are not the first people in the world to think that they should promote their cause principally by telling lies.)
"But I should like a little more psychological insight. When you yourself decided to degrade yourself with lies ... what were you thinking?"
Is this hypothetical or are you claiming this is something I have done
Evidently.
Evidently, Obvioulsly
Corrupt Government- Check; Lobbiest Paid- Check; Shove Tax $ Up CEO's ASS- 2x Check; Incorporate a Bussiness in order to receive Gov. Handout- Check;---> http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/
The problem is that in this environment, hard work does not equal higher achievement as you assume. You just need to live some more.
http://thepurpletruth.blogspot.com/2011/11/are-occupy-wall-street-protesters-bums.html
work smarter, not harder.
I agree...that's why my whole blog is about the Culture of Self Employment. I'm all about the virtual administration and automation that the Internet offers the entrepreneur. I believe that there should be many more self employed people than there are. I support the mandate of SEAPs in states to replace the current unemployment system.
So ha! Don't talk shit to me.
http://thepurpletruth.blogspot.com/2011/11/are-occupy-wall-street-protesters-bums.html
The kid getting higher test scores didn't then get to decide whether your school Principal kept his job.
See my point?
Not really because Bill Gates didn't get 300 million votes in the 2008 election either.
Actually, the cost of 300 million votes isn't the issue.
How much would a Senator, a couple Congressmen, and a judge or two cost a guy?
(This comment is appearing in the forum above the one I wrote that preceded it.)
Well, how much would 300 million votes cost a guy?
You can't purchase an election, not in this country at least.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... hoo boy! THAT'S rich!... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
And, no I won't turn off the bloody caps lock!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! HA!
How about this for an idea. To sum up why I am interested in this movement, I work 65+ hours a week installing and refinishing hardwood flooring. I have been told that my job is an art and that for my age I am pretty good at what I do. My frustration is that no matter how hard i work or how good i get, my government, or some big business finds a new way to take anything and everything from me and I am left with the feeling that my money, that is supposed to help my fellow man working down the hall from me, is actually going to pay for some guys beach house, who has a couple meetings a week, goes to the gym, and has time to spend with his family. Well I am 21 years old, been in the construction field for 3 years now with no vacation time, my knees are going already and i have developed a case of what I believe is tendonitis, (I would get it checked out, believe me it hurts daily, but with nothing left over after taxes, oil, rent, utilities, food, and gas i cant afford the insane rates offered by H.M.O.s in America), and I cant help but be so pessimistic to say that I believe, in my governments eyes, my only purpose in this country is to pay a person's salary, who i believe is no better then me, that I didnt even vote for. That does not settle well with me. My message to the "leaders" of this country, This is broken, please fix it. If something doesn't change all the hard working middle class man is going to die of starvation and your going to be left with a country of politicians and bankers with over stuffed pockets and nice suits.
It sounds like you should have a much bigger problem with the government than wall street. It seems to me as if the whole movement is aimed in the wrong direction, criminalizing the wrong group
Syndicated radio BS. Of course, the government is partly to blame. But that doesn't excuse the incredible greed of the one percent or the corruption within their respective corporations.
I will admit I am a little ignorant of the meaning of all this, regardless I want some kind of change and I would like to feel like less of a victim of greed.
The only way things change is if someone causes a change. Now, it is just my opinion, but i'm not particularly interested in getting involved in some big occupation. I'm more interested in a movement to restore a high standard of democracy
The Point is in this declaration:
http://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/
Yes! And they say the 1% are greedy yet they want their money. Equally greedy.
You are correct. You are also a smart kid.
The people in this movement will chime in and claim the bankers and corporations are all evil and a bunch of thieves. They will tell you they robbed their wealth from a mystical people who never had anything to begin with. It's all bullshit.
They are misguided and ignorant. They create these "enemies" ... bankers and corporations because they refuse to see what the real problem has been in American society for several generations ... the ever growing and expanding government.
They LOVE government and want much more of it. They want to use the force of government to take from other people in order to satisfy their own sense of entitlement, greed, and envy.
They hate The Constitution. They hate freedom and liberty. They know nothing of personal responsibility, nor do they care. They refuse to acknowledge a system of merit, risk, and rewards.
Good Luck kid. You are already smarter than 99% of all the protesters in the OWS movement.
Um ... maybe instead of lying to us about what our goals are, you could ask us what our goals are. We're right here, you can ask us.
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of domestic wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent of Americans already own over 40% of all US wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. The lower 90 percent of Americans own less than 25 percent of all US wealth. An all-time low. Still, the rich want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
MIAMI (CBSMiami.com) – Florida is touting the new jobs it created Friday after a positive unemployment report. But based on numbers from all W-2’s filed in the country, the wages simply aren’t keeping up.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans, saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively.
The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion.
In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009.
Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated around 40% of all United States wealth. The upper class held around 30%. The middle and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed. Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, the lions share of United States wealth was gradually transfered back to the middle class. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. This was the recovery. A massive redistribution of wealth.
Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own well over 40 percent of all US wealth. The lower 90 percent own less than 25 percent of all US wealth. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible.
No redistribution. No recovery.
"being the 1 percent that did the most work". That's a good one. The average member of the one percent club is paid way over 10 times that of a New York firefighter. You know. Those men and women who ran INTO the twin towers on 9/11 trying to save others.
"being the 1 percent that did the most work". That's a good one.
Any idiot can see how much I respect true heroes. If you can't then you must not have done very well on that debating team. You're missing the point with regard to shared prosperity. The rich aren't just reaping more wealth from an unlimited source. They have been reaping wealth much faster than it's created. Gradually concentrating the world's wealth, causing the middle class to lose relative buying power, and CAUSING more hardship for ordinary people including those 9/11 heroes who are paid a fraction of what they deserve while rich pigs are paid millions from THE SAME PIE.
My goal is not to punish the rich simply to have revenge. My goal is to make people understand. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. Not in spite of, but BECAUSE of.
Point #1. I will refer to any real world event I damn well please. #2. Nobody works that hard. Not by any moral or logical standard. #3. Thats my point. They make a vital contribution to our society. No man or woman is worth 10 times their pay. Not by any moral or logical standard.
My reply is above your comment (you deleted it and then reposted)
Suppose the kid in class who scored the highest test score was having a relationship with a teacher and got all the answers before the test. Would you be mad then?
Until you give me an example of a time when the literal reinterpretation of my analogue took place i'm not sure how valid that question is. but, anyway, if the test was as important as life then no, because he took an opportunity that was available to everyone else in the class
First of all I am with you. I have been a self employed business owner for 20 years. I put myself through school with no government aid. I have eaten rice and beans and ramen noodles before to make ends meet, and other than an abusive dad, i wasn't poor when i grew up. I happen to be pretty successive and able to retire at age 42. HOWEVER. Our government is completely bought off by the mega millionaires and lobbyists who do their dirty work. Nobody in Washington represents the people anymore. They represent their own self interest, and they enact laws to punish people and tax them more to preserve their way of life, and that of the ultra rich. it is nice to plan to be ultra rich if that is your desire. There are people who are going to stand in your way, and many of them have no ethics at all. The OWS movement is failing by addressing the corruption on Wall Street and ignoring the corruption in Washington that goes hand in hand. It should be Occupy Washington.
I'm with you Jimboiam but is that the kids fault or the teachers?
Well in modern society the kid could not be held accountable, but lets say it was a college course and that kid was 20 years old. Absolutely it was the kids fault for being unethical and sticking it to his fellow students. But the teacher (Washington) was just as guilty.
I would say even more guilty because the teacher (washington) is the one in the position of authority. They chose to give the test answers away. The kid took advantage and while that is just as immoral it certainly is not his fault that he got the answers.
I don't disagree with you there. I am all about Occupy washington instead of Occupy Wall Street. If Wall Street has nobody to give money to, then their power is diminished. Without Wall Street money, Washington can still keep sticking it to the people. And any legislative change needs to happen in Washington. This is where the Tea Party(the non GOP part) and the OWS differ. they have the same goal to end the corruption, but only the Tea Party realizes where to attack and how to achieve that change. The Tea Party could do more to be active but most of them are working or running businesses.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said. Washington is the root of all of our problems, Wall Street is just a player in the game.
I have been doing alot of things lately but i am probably going to organize a combined OWS/Tea Party event down in my area, and try to bring the two groups together for a common goal. Set a plan of attack, a defined goal of ending the corruption and gaining better representation, and definitely an aggressive attack. If all goes well, ill use the old capitalistic habit of duplication and spur a change in the right direction. The problem will be keeping the GOPers who pretend to be Tea Partiers and want their religious agenda passed, from trying to usurp the plan. The Glenn Becks and Limbaughs of the world. My biggest dissappointment with the Tea Party was letting the movement be taken over by the GOP. I was so hoping the Tea Party would crush the GOP into oblivion.
That makes two of us. When I saw the first rally on the mall in DC I was inspired. When I saw Sarah Palin on a podium at a "Tea Party" event I was dejected.
Palin, Bachmann, Santorum, these people are hideous, and i am ashamed any Tea Partiers really follow them. That is the influence of the GOP. The GOP was scared to death about being torn apart, so they jumped on the tea Party wagon and has turned it into a hated movement by half of the country or more. That should have never happened. Most Tea Partiers I know are business owners who are not very religious and only want fiscal discipline and to be socially responsible, with some expectation of accountability for people accepting government aid.
I think you two, along with many other Americans are forgetting one of the most beautiful pieces of our country: the members of our government are chosen by us. I don't believe even in occupying washington, i believe in finding someone who would truly be a great leader, and a remarkable official, to lead the country in the right direction and doing all you can to get them to the top, because if they truly are what is right for the nation than I believe with real effort the others in America would go for him/her and the power of democracy would be restored. We cannot blame our government, we chose our government, we can only blame ourselves.
Yes we do have ourselves to blame, but it is naive to think that we chose these people. The Two parties control who gets elected. You aren't given any choice in the matter really. They set forth the candidates. Any grass roots, 3rd party candidates have no chance at all. But yes that is really the fault of Americans. 75% of people vote the D or the R, many times as a way of keeping the other side from winning. Most do not even know enough about what they are voting on to tell you about it. That is America's fault. But in order to break that system, we need to scare the parties, and demand accountability from them. We can correct our mistakes, and the first thing being hammering the two parties and cutting off their money supply.
I definitely don't like the party system.
Good analogy. Damn good.
However, not every kid who gets the highest score does that. Which does illuminate a flaw in the attack on the 1%.
But every member of the one percent is overpaid. They now own well over 40 percent of all US wealth. The bottom 90 percent own less than 10 percent. That's obscene, unjust, immoral, and illogical.
No more excuses. The richest one percent are too rich. Period.
The only way to change that is for people to work harder instead of sitting around doing nothing.
So those firefighters who ran INTO those twin towers on 9/11 should have ran faster?
We are talking about economics. Please don't go there.
I'm talking about the relationship between morality, prosperity, and economic stability.
Is it immoral to be successful? Lets take Bill gates. He is a multi billionaire. He has turned around and set up a foundation to distribute money directly for good causes, instead of letting the government do it. Don't you think he is entitled?
I've responded to that Bill Gates crap so many times already it makes me sick. Still, it amazes me how naive you people are.
First of all, 'antitrust' 'Microsoft'. Look it up.
Second, Gates has personally concentrated $50,000,000,000 of the world's wealth in his own pocket. Thereby CAUSING more poverty worldwide. He has the means to throw down his pocket change in the name of 'humanity' and divert the attention of people like you.
Third, The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has never been what it's made out to be. They only contribute 2 or 3 percent of their funding to charity. Another chunk is spent on super high end BMGF infrastructure like a multi-hundred-million dollar headquarters. But the lion's share of their funding has always been 'invested' in Fortune 500 companies. The same Fortune 500 companies that rape the natural environment all over the world, buy out world leaders, drive up the cost of living worldwide, and screw ordinary people.
The Utopian world of generous and noble billionaires you people fantasize about does not exist.
OK you don't like Bill Gates. Of course he doesn't give more away a year, than he can make in interest on the money. But spending the 100s of millions on a facility certainly creates construction and other types of jobs. When rich people spend big money it creates jobs. can't say Keynesian economics works and turn around and deny that rich people spend money. Even investing in fortune 500 companies (i made the list for two years a few years back), means the money is being spent in the economy.
It's not that simple:
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of domestic wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent of Americans already own over 40 percent of all US wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. The lower 90 percent of Americans own less than 25 percent of all US wealth. An all-time low. Still, the rich want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
Very true....MANY in the 1-3 percent, this does NOT apply.