Forum Post: just want ONE person:
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 24, 2011, 8:15 p.m. EST by REALamerican
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to explain to me the NUMBER ONE goal of OWS. if you could change ONE rule/law what would it be and why? im just a little confused. seems like there might be like 2 serious people in OWS and the rest are bandwagoners lol
"Get The Money Out Of Politics" to start with
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We are a large group of people-
The people that I joined with are concerned with Education and the cost of higher education. Student loans are killing us (especially private student loans- which are given at high interest rates and with a lot of fees). These loans have now ballooned. Very big problem here. We need help from the government. If you would like to know more about this particular interest point, let me know.
Here is the answer that can save the movement: PROHIBIT PRIVATE SPENDING IN PUBLIC CAMPAIGNS Everyone knows that we live in the best democracy money can buy...nearly all of our politicians are bought. By prohibiting private spending and setting up a democratic framework that allows people to participate meaningfully, we'd be addressing the root cause of the frustration seen at OWS. Sorry to say, but all other goals are just addressing symptoms. I'd be happy to elaborate more on my ideas of the framework, if anyone agrees that this is in fact the number one issue that we should be pushing for.
OWS's goal to to bring recognition and change to how those in power (government/law and corporations/wealth) from compounding their power and limiting the common person from participating in the use of that power.
The goal of OW is too protest the abuse of the system by corporations. The movement is to awaken people to become active against corrupt govt created by the money of corporations. It isn't about taxing the wealthy or stealing wealth. It is about reregulation. It isnt about liberal or conservative agenda it about pulling everyone together on the same principal that corporations are corrupt and change is needed. What exact change???? But change can't be created until we come together first
im confused... you blame corporations for this? the GOVERNMENT and politicians are the one that set up these systems that allow corporations to take advantage of the system. if we went back to small government and true capitalism and made politicians stayed away from big corps. we wouldnt have this problem!
Hummm, exactly which politician in this country isn't "made"? You can't ask foxes to guard the hen house.
You, yourself just validated RantCasey's point in your response - "and made politicians stayed (sp) away from big corps."
Politicians didn't modify the system to benefit corporations on their own whim. They were influenced by corporations to do this. He did NOT say that the politicians are innocent.
Look past he forest of propaganda in which you live and you will find the truth - This movement is about every single one of us, you included.
the politicians are the only ones to blame, if they didnt take the money there would be no problems.
I DONT WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN THIS UN AMERICAN UN DEMOCRATIC PRO SOCIALIST CRAP! it is CRAP.
Realamerican is right, the only thing that matters is taking the money out of politics...everything else is just a symptom. There are lots of things in OWS i support and some might even call me a socialist, but I don't want to demand these things. I want to set up a framework that allows american citizens to meaningfully participate in democracy. The rest will work itself out from there. check out this site, it may be interesting to you www.getmoneyout.com
It is very democratic to protest. If you agree with the protest join if not sit at home. It's easy we aren't forcing you to agree with. Just hoping you will
and i wont. and i respect your right to protest just like you should respect my right to believe yall are blaming the wrong people. but, after the way you kept trying to bash me, i have very little respect for you.
I thought you wanted to drop the u being a victim thing?? But any way I respect that you don't think it is aimed at the right people. You do know there is a occupy dc charter right
it should be the ONLY one. you people just dont even get it...
Ok i get it. If you don't it it ok.you feel more anger at politicians. I don't blame you they are very corrupt and honestly they are the awful ones because they are supposed to represent America. Of course corporations are into making money that's what they do and they will abuse the govt as much as they let them. I get you dude. If I'm in dc I will go protest there?? I go where my truck goes.
I think the point realamerican makes is somewhat valid. Corporate greed make me sick, but it's only a symptom of allowing money into politics. We need to be unified behind the goal of PROHIBITING PRIVATE SPENDING IN PUBLIC CAMPAIGNS we must get the root of the problem. With a real democracy, don't you think most people would agree with fair taxation, corporate greed regulations, and such and such. Check out this site www.getmoneyout.com
I have seen his site and signed the petition. I agree with him. I just like to attack both ends. Just because I hit the head of the snake with a shovel don't mean I won't bash the body and tail. Poor snake... I honestly don't promote beating animals or politicians with shovels. It is just a figure of speech
So, you are only here to troll? Go get a job.
I am an American. A true Patriot that prays every day for a return to a constitutional republic with democratically elected representation. I believe in and participate in a capitalist economy. I opened my first business at age 18. I have started and sold 3 different businesses. I am 33. I am smart enough to see past the BS that is being fed to me. I took the time to really research this movement and went to a couple local GA's.
There is no movement in America that is more american.
right on!
haha oh yeah? how about the people that helped initially fund this movement. like the socialist and communist groups in canada. have you researched about them much? Do they seem warm and loving and American to you? You seem like the kind of that DIDNT see past the BS and fell for this big sweeping movement and couldnt wait to jump on the bandwagon.
LOL @ Canadian environmentalists taking over America!!! Seriously, have you considered comedy instead of politics? You're killing me here.
You really have a low opinion of Americans. Then again, most neo-cons do.
well. again you assume to know about me. if the word "communist" or "socialist" is in the name of a group then i am against that group. thats the american way. yet many groups with those words in their title have FUNDED and supported this movement, and yet your surprised that i am quickly not supportive of something that goes against my principles? and neo-con? really? im actually very independent, other than financially. i wish you would stop assuming things. you can just ask instead :)
Oh, like Koch funding the Tea Party? Or Fascists contributing to the GOP? Or maybe the KKK?
So, since I am making an ass out of myself with my assumptions, who is your guy for next year, and why?
honestly i dont like any of them. the only people i remotely support is herman cain, because he isnt a politician and i think hes less corrupt than the others, and i like ron Paul's money and small government ideas. as for who i will vote for? who knows....
No, he just worked for them for a while. There is no more corrupt institution involved with the federal government than the federal reserve.
You want a return to the Constitution? Read what the framers said about central banks. Learn what the federal reserve actually does, and you will see the issue.
Had to reply here, only lets replies go so far.
Cain? He's utterly clueless, and a complete puppet of Goldman Sachs. He'as advised (read ordered around) by Goldman CEOs. The 999 plan was written by Goldman Sachs to screw us and give it all to the stinking rich.
For all that's holy, stay far away from that tool. He's so corrupt it's not funny.
Cain works for the same people that have robbed our nation from us. Do you know who owns the Federal Reserve?
... not herman Cain? whats your point?
and i said LESS corrupt... not NOT corrupt :P
Government is bought by campaign contributions from the wealthy and corporations. More representation is needed in my opinion more people creates more spots to have to try and corrupt it allows for more representation from a local level. I know more has to be done then just add spots. A larger govt can just as easily be corrupted by money. I think campaign finance reform is more important than changing size of govt. Plus if Obama or whoever else would actually appoint regulator instead of lackeys in regulation positions that would be good. Plus people need to quit voting the people in who are backed by this money.
Term limits, make it illegal for any corporation to make campain contributions. Make it illegal for elected officials to accept anything from anyone other than regular old stuff like chocolates at christmas kinda stuff.
lol yes. they are bought by corporations, which means the corruption and evil STILL lies with the government. and you want MORE government? more government has factually proven all of our current big problems. that isnt an opinion, its straight up fact. i agree, politicians shouldnt be able to take money from high profit corps. and when i become a politician in the future, i will refuse donations from anyone except the PEOPLE. because THAT is who i work for.
You are actually for what this movement is about but you refuse to agree with it because there are mostly liberals pushing it. The true believers in this movement are trying to push aside political difference and want more conservatives in the movement. If we don't stop corporate corruption in politics conservatives nor liberals get a say. We all lose. The 99% lose. Step one oust corruption step 2 fix the shit. Without step one we dont get a say. You don't get a say. We go home as a failure. Hell I may favor sum liberal ideas but I know a balance is needed. Liberals need conservatives and you need liberals. But what we really need is honesty no more thieves
no. because OWS believes wall street, and rich people, and capitalism are to blame. and with my dying breath i would completely disagree with that. we have to get our small government back, get back to true capitalism, and stop interfering with everyones business like obama and even some of the republicans want to do. i am not for this movement because it is mostly full of people who are ignorant of how things really work. i might be more supportive if the majority of people were well educated in these areas, but sadly most have really no idea what is going on
You don't think corporate money influences who gets into office??? You are so close to getting it but so pissed off at me I lost you. Sorry I thought you were just another spammer. But anyway this is like what came first the chicken or the egg. Hey have a good day. And again sorry
no, but i think the money helps people get elected, who are then biased towards the people who gave them that money. we agree that there is a problem, what we disagree on is whose fault it is. i think it is pretty much the politicians for being corrupt and creating wayy too big of a government. not the corporations for doing what will benefit them. i mean dont you try to always to stuff to benefit yourself also? they cant be blamed for using a tool laid in front of them. its the tools fault!
Yes I totally agree with that
" agree, politicians shouldnt be able to take money from high profit corps. and when i become a politician in the future, i will refuse donations from anyone except the PEOPLE. because THAT is who i work for."
And unless we succeed, you sure as hell will never become a politician.
lol succeed in WHAT! you people dont even know! most of your followers only follow because they are ignorant of politics and economics. you think those idiots have influence??
I'm sure convinced yourself that you're extremely well versed in politics and economics. At least, as far as Glenn Beck's magical chalkboard goes.
Anyway, you probably still wouldn't stand a chance in hell of getting into politics.
lol. im a political science/ psychology double major. would you like me to explain why you said the things you just did from a psychology perspective? :) and yes i will. Just you wait. oh and for the record I think Glenn Beck is an overly conservative bigot who has about 3% the right idea and 97% general hatred. thanks for judging me prematurely :)
"lol. im a political science/ psychology double major."lol
There's a formula for success.lol
actually, i think its a great idea. im also pre-law, planning on heading out to a great law school in about a year and a half. are we assuming again? :)
Never said you weren't pre-law. Sounds like you're assuming assumptions?
"theres a formula for success"
sarcasm?
Name one federal level politician that has been elected without corporate money. I will wait.
..... thats exactly my damn point. you people point your fingers at the wrong people ALL the time. especially the ones that think capitalism is to blame. lol. anyone who even remotely tthinks thats true is a complete idiot.
Your opinion is yours. Some people in the movement think socialism is the answer. Some think it is communism. Some on the Right think Authoritarianism is a good idea. I don't fault every conservative for an individual's belief.
Do you honestly think that there is any chance in hell that Americans will let communists and socialists take over? Who's the idiot?
you. because you think what i said was "opinion" when it is not. and trust me, ignorant people can be tricked easily. i mean look, our capitalism and democracy are half-gone already! largely in part do to Barack Hussein Obama!
Right, fact because you said so. Got it. Your use of his middle name shows exactly who you are. BTW, I have already made up my mind for the next president, and it is not Obama, but not for your lightly veiled racist reasons.
Good luck politician.
lol im racist for using his full name? in fact you are the rude one for calling him "obama". you should at least say mr. lol. i love how every single one of you OWS people assume that you know me when you know nothing about me.
No, for emphasising the Hussein part. And don't lie and say you didn't. He doesn't go by his full name, and you know it. He goes by Barack Obama. No Hussein. It is a name used by people who are to scared to call him what they really want to, but know they would be ostracized for.
Look, you want to know what the right wants for America? Go read up on authoritarianism. You will find that the principles are in line with much of the right's ultimate goals.
Obama (you may also know him as Obozo or some other lame play on his name) serves the same masters as the GOP. Follow the money and you will see. Like I said, good luck.
Real if this is all you do this isn't trolling this is actually discussing. You are ok in my book if you do this
I want an actual govt that is represented by the people not money. These corporations own the media and buy every office. Big or small govt it don't matter. Hell I will take your smaller govt if it actually represents us.
End corporate person-hood. For more information, please go to http://occupywallst.org/forum/human-worth-amendment/
Society will ultimately never view every single person with equal value because there will always be people that are smarter, stronger, and harder working than others. They will naturally have more value to society than those who are weak, lazy, and dumb.
So you do not believe that "all men are created equal" and should not be made part of the law of the land ...the Constitution of the United States of America? As you know, the Supreme Court interpret the law based upon the Constitution and not the Declaration of Independence. I believe our founding fathers were right. Now is the time to make clear the equality of all human beings intrinsically. Regardless or intelligence, strength, occupation, education, etc. -- all people are of equal worth and value intrinsically.
All have equal rights. They don't have equal value to society. Just think of all the awful people out there. How can they be of the same value as one who volunteers their time and money to help those in need?
person = person intrinsically. unconditionally and unexceptionally.
You will never convince me, along with millions of others, that some people aren't worthless. What about those guys in CT who did that home invasion? Can you honestly say they have any worth or value?
Their behavior is reprehensible. They must be held accountable. But, as human beings, "those guys" are of equal worth and value - intrinsically - as all people. What they did was horrible. But, yes, I can honestly say that their worth and value as persons is no less or more than others. All people are of equal dignities. It is upsetting to witness that "some guys" are unable to accept that "all people are of equal worth and value in themselves" and engage in awful, de-humanizing behavior.
I guess I don't know what you mean by "intrinsically." I can't see any worth in some people.
wow. that "amendment" is completely worthless and i dont see how it would change things either way. lol. ignorant people.
Please explain. How would the Human Worth Amendment fail to "change things either way?"
Human Worth Amendment
All people are of equal worth an value in themselves, solely on the basis of being human-beings, unconditionally and unexceptionally.
A corporate entity, in and of itself, is not a person and, therefore, is not entitled to the same rights and protections afforded to a person as set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America.
He won't explain. He's not paid to explain.
im not sure i see what your hinting at?
its just ridiculous. besides number "1" is already clearly stated in the constitution, and its just a waste of ink to repeat it!
Where is "number 1" clearly stated in the Constitution of the United States of America?
If this were clearly stated in the Constitution of the United States of America, many Amendments would not have been required to try to cobble together equality.
the part about people having certain unalienable rights... given not because they are human, but given by GOD. get it right :)
REALamerican,
Based on your statement, you must believe that the people that God has created are of equal worth and value...at least to God...but some people have difficulty believing that all people that God has created are of equal worth and value. Even the folks who believe in God have difficulty accepting that each person that God has created is of equal worth and value...equal dignities.
Most on here have their own agenda. There is no cohesiveness. Read the minutes, they had to discuss who was going to do the laundry because it got rained on. Not the first time it has happened. Apparently they spent a lot of money to do laundry.
Everybody has there own agenda?? We are not robots. We have to figure out what we agree upon. And find a way to fix it.
There is no cohesiveness. I hesitate to post anymore because every time I do, my posts get deleted. I came here to actual find out what was going on and I was met with "Go Fuck Yourself" "Your an Idiot" for posting a counter point view to actually debate an a point. There is so much Socialism, Communism being spewed here. No one could answer me "Why Wall St" Why not Congress? The politicians are the ones that need to be held accountable. They are the enablers. They are the ones who took money. You may not be robot - but many are.
There are a lot of people attacking the movement. People ard just edgy. Have you seen sum of the troll stuff on here it is very insulting. I'm sorry if you don't feel like you are getting heard. Be patient and be respectful and ask for respect from others. Just because sumone disagrees with you don't meen they should treat you with disrespect
rule by direct democracy
http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/post/11716755629/occupy-wall-street-a-nations-cry-for-change
this is a new kind of demonstration - how can we spend more of the cities budget less efficiently.
good times.
This forum is troll-infested. You will be lucky to find a true OWS supporter, or someone above the age of 8.
I suggest you go to occupytogether.org or themultitude.org
Peace be with you
i'm 45
The NUMBER ONE goal of OWS is the reelection of Barack Obama.
Bullshit. Moveon can move on and pimp their lying bastard elsewhere.
That is a lie quit lieing on forums. You are harassing this movement. No where does it say OWS supports Obama. Your trolling with lies must stop
Completely untrue. Prove it.
.... please tell me your saying that as someone that doesn't agree with it.
I agree there is corruption in the system, but I think OWS is protesting the wrong target. These protests should be in Washington D.C.. The root of all evil and all problems in this country is the government.
But, yes, this movement was created as a distraction to help Obama get reelected.
They are protesting in DC
Big deal. A small handful of people and they are being ignored for the most part.
The whole "movement" needs to be in D.C.. They wouldn't be able to ignore that.
Are you buying tickets and getting everybody there??? Protest where you are message is more important than location. Well location is important too. But get to a location u can afford and 2-3000 is quite a few people
There isn't 2000 people occupying D.C..
The other weekend there was at least that
Maybe on some weekends you can get that many, but that would be rare.
During the week and overnight, how many? maybe 100-200 if lucky.
Don't forget, very soon it is going to get pretty cold in D.C. just like here in NY.
Yeah those numbers are what I have heard
The corruption in Washington is from big business.
And Obama doesn't need help from OWS getting reelected. Congress is giving him all the help he needs. Republicans are helping too. Yep, stick Perry up there and remind everyone of the last Republican president - an awful president.
They are protesting in DC. All over K street. That's where all the lobbying takes place.
The entire movement needs to be in D.C.. Not fractured into a whole bunch of groups illegally camping in city parks around the country. Nothing is going to change that way.
A mass of people descending on D.C. would scare them and that may force a change.
But then again, the top level organizers really don't want change. They want a "distraction" during the 2012 election season. They want people to blame someone else other than the government for their problems. That is what the OWS movement is really about.
It is a "distraction" to help Obama get reelected.
Don't kid yourself into thinking this is about anything else.
Soros, Moveon & their pet lying bastard who is well known for taking bribes, Ohbummer, has been told to go fuck themselves again and again. They have too much shit in their ears to listen, and keep trying to lay claim to the movement.
I'm going to voice my dissatisfaction with that shit by voting No Confidence on ALL the politicians. What the fuck are you gonna do?
Completely untrue. Prove it.
"It is a "distraction" to help Obama get reelected."
Sounds like Glenn Beck's still preaching conspiracy theories.
Completely untrue. Prove it.
EXACTLY THANK YOU!
ew theres no way he could get reelected at this point...
He's saying that as someone that is 100% full of shit.
please mind your manners. NO ONE on my post is here to be rude. its called discussion, please act like an adult.
Truth is truth. He is lying. He is saying it as a shill to those who wish this thing was a left wing movement so people like you will never join.
it IS a left movement. its just so far left people dont see it as that. and no, that is not why i dont like it. I just do not care for things that are wrong. And there is not a shred of doubt in my mind that OWS is really flawed, disorganized, and useless. Go home, get a job. that will help this economy more than griping and complaining and pretending like YOU know whats best for our country. lol the arrogance.
Too funny - Always back to the same Pundit echo. "get a job". Got one, thanks. In fact, I am one of your beloved "job creators". I quote it, because like supply side economics, it is a lie.
I have 16 employees and generate over a million dollars a year in revenue. What have you done? Oh, wait, you want to be a politician. You want to live off of the government teet. What happens when your beloved overlords decide to cut your payroll from the budget? I know I would never hire a former con-man/politician. Good luck in your right wing utopia. LOL, the ignorance.
i would be a politician for free. its not for money. the reason i want to be in politics is because like you, i see flaws in our country and i see them getting worse. what the flaws are and who created them are where we disagree. please do not assume you know me, because i do not give you that treatment. I am 19 in college working a job AND two little start up businesses im toying around with i get no family money I pay for everything myself. I would gladly become a politician for free, or even pay a fee to be a leader of this country. stop judging what you do not know.
"stop judging what you do not know."
Heed your own advice sir. You are doing nothing but judging here. If you would like, I can go through your posts HERE, on this thread, where you have done just that.
Exactly. The message is scattered, but they are working on it.
Anything beats just mindlessly voting for one of two corrupted parties..