Forum Post: It's Not Easy Being Green These Days ...
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 10:47 p.m. EST by nichole
(525)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
... as I seek Life, Hope, and Regeneration ...
We have successfully moved people to consider "green" when they buy. Why not other social costs like American Jobs, fair wages, etc ?
What REALLY changes corporations is when a large number of consumers simply refuse to buy their products unless they are socially responsible. We need to educate people on this, but we did it for "green" and we can do it again.
See http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/ for an overview and http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-mall-street-and-change-corporate-america/ for a near-term plan of action.
Removing us from the parks is not the end of the movement, it;s only the end of the beginning. We need to DO something now, and I think focusing our efforts on rallying the people of America to help FIX America is a good mid-game.
We can't look to the political sphere alone. We must rally the people to make a 10 little protests a day by changing what they buy. Corporations understand profit, and they'll change as a result.
Make what is obvious to us obvious to those who are not convinced. And, don't shop amazon.com this holiday season :) Spread the word.
Agreed, again. Feign defeat and regroup. What is it about our message that is so obvious to us yet so foreign to the swath of Americans who just can't get it??? I am convinced that we are most legitimate, and that we are being wrongfully cast as some lazy, criminal entity -- parasites (don't even get me started on the history behind this term). We got to make it perfectly clear. The lack of literacy among the American people is a huge concern of mine. How many people can actually digest a passage that exceeds the length of a Tweet, FB blurb, or pithy discussion board post?
Regarding literacy and the fate of this grand experiment called "Democracy," I quote from part two my 3 part response to an NYU journalism student at http://occupywallst.org/forum/one-percenter-ready-to-join-if/#comment-295977.
It would improper to say my interactions here have all been positive. Indeed, I have an expanded concern for our Democracy and the ability of Man to satisfy the Faith of our Forefathers in our ability to self govern.
First and foremost, I am dismayed by the number of people unwilling to engage in civil dialog. The most important thing a Man can say in civil discourse is, "That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that." Unfortunately, our society has become so polarized that every disagreeable fact or argument is immediately dismissed as idiocy, the utterance of a shill, or the manipulation of a troll. People are not listening to or learning from one another, and they are not treating one another with respect. A reasonable outcome of discourse is "The facts aren't clear. This is a matter of opinion, and on this, we must agree to disagree." An angry "You're an idiot" is not appropriate, respectful, or constructive. Respect appears rare, and we cannot run a Democracy without it. I fear our Founding Fathers would be very disappointed in the TONE of our discourse.
Second, I am shocked by the quality of reference people use to substantiate their opinions and positions. Too often, a link to a YouTube video or blog of someone stating the same opinion sans supporting fact is cited as a "reference" in discussion. No number of people who share an opinion can make Truth from Fallacy, and the mere existence of media discussing ghosts, UFOs, extraterrestrials, astrology, etc. proves only that there is money to be made in discussing such things, not that these things are Truth. There is a pronounced lack of willingness to research facts, evaluate sources, or apply critical thinking to the myriad opinions found on the Internet. People also appear to have a profound inability to absorb information in anything but sound-bites and twitter-isms no matter the complexity or subtlety of the topic at hand. If I have learned anything in my 50 plus years, it's that subtlety and complexity abound all topics of import, and I fear our Founders would be dismayed at the QUALITY of our discourse.
Finally, I am dismayed by the general desire to externalize our Nation's problems without due regard for the contributions of We the People. It is said that, in a Democracy, we get the government we deserve. Likewise, in Capitalism, we get the corporations we deserve. When we borrow money to buy foreign goods, we make the lenders wealthy and lose our jobs. We the People are responsible for much of what ails us. I am encouraged by the recent campaign to move from large banks to credit unions, NOT because I "hate" the banks but because I see the People are now starting to understand the need to "vote" with their dollars. We the People have made great strides in thinking "green" when we purchase, and we need to think with equal passion about our VALUES in every single business transaction of our daily lives. Don't buy from corporations that pay meager wages, manufacture overseas, or only stock foreign products. Walk away from the computerized self-check lane and demand service by real people. Press "O" when a computer answers the phone. More expensive and inconvenient to be sure, but these actions show our values are WORTH something to us. There is great SOCIAL cost to consider beyond mere sticker price, and corporations WILL change in response to our voting dollars.
Well, I would be all-too-pleased to run into you on the street someday and engage in discourse (though we do already agree on much so it wouldn't be too difficult). We too must be better. This you do get. The temptation for weakness has been too great. Why were we not fighting these forces en masse BEFORE we were expected to do without such trivial and meaningless accommodations? Never thought it could happen to us? Oh, it is ... how many Cassandras were shouting all the while?
It WOULD be nice to have some face-to-face discourse with well informed folks about all this someday. These forums are quite limited, and I'm ALWAYS up for a good talk about ideas around a cappuccino. Maybe I'm French at heart !
On a related front, have you noticed how we Americans have made discussion of politics taboo at all social gatherings ? How are we supposed to run a Democracy if we make discussion of our issues taboo anytime we get together ? We need to learn to do it in a respectful way rather than declare it "off limits."
Yes, the American people have been asleep, but they are awaking thanks in no small part to this movement (and the Tea Party as well). We have shown ourselves to be remarkably resilient when needed in the course of our history. Let's hope we can show our mettle again and FIX the problems we accumulated while sleeping !
Yes, democracy does not work while a populace is ill-informed and sleeping. I always wondered why it has been considered taboo to discuss politics (and religion). It would be interesting to investigate the origins of that belief. We do need to seriously consider the face to face, how we can continue the dialogue after places like Zucotti Park are evicted and in the case that our social media platforms may be unplugged -- a likely possibility, in fact, I'm counting on that happening at some point.
Feign defeat and regroup.
"What is it about our message that is so obvious to us yet so foreign to the swath of Americans who just can't get it???"
Your media conglomerate and the number of trolls that insist on dropping it for now to come back later.You know.
Till you can figure out how to capitalize on it. Yeah?
And your media conglomerate is Fox News? You must be feeling fearful now, playing the role of victim, so terrified of the People who are threatening the money-people who pretend to be your People as they serve as a mouthpiece for all those corporate persons who suppress the rights of THE People!!! Me, capitalize? Please stop me if you ever see me surpass survival and take the capitalist route (I do know these types are quite dangerous as they'll never stop). Nah, can't see it happening, there are far more important things in this life.
You might enjoy the video at http://youtu.be/QYXKaAzEJrk . Seriously, it's AWESOME !
Thanks -- lovely link!
From the voting there seems to be little appreciation for humor on this forum ...
Yep. I tried to be silly at http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-mordor-because-one-ring-should-not-rule-the/ and couldn't get many people interested.
As for voting, it appears SOMEONE ranges through every post in which I respond, votes my response up and everyone else's down. Either I'm just really knocking people dead with my responses, or I have a stalker. I suspect the later. It's a bit creepy.
Voting is a powerful way to work the forums, especially for a troll with half-a-dozen accounts.
Why do they bother ? It seems like a lot of work, and I don't understand what they think they gain.
Don't begrudge them the biggest success they will have.
Kermit/Fozzie 2012!!!