Forum Post: Is It Mathematically Impossible For A Poor Person Today, To Become Wealthy In America Through Their Own hard Work? Yes or No?
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 5, 2011, 1:47 a.m. EST by SirPoeticJustice
(628)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
What Good Is Being Rich If You Are Too Old To Enjoy It?
Through Strictly Legal Means And Without Money Being loaned To Them By Friends or Family.
310,000 : 1
ask Oprah
It is still possible, but far less possible than even a decade ago.
Impossible? Nothing is impossible. But wealth can be measured in different ways
I think this is where all of humanity is going off the rails...We concentrate too much on becoming wealthy and not enough on being of service to humanity..I remember when "being happy" didn't always equate with being rich...But our society pushes this message that "you to can be a winner" while at the same time rigging the game to ensure that life is actually harder to live. I don't think that predatory Capitalism should be allowed to exist...
Watch Catch -22 and Milo Minderbinder...If we have a world of Milo Minderbinder's we are doomed...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Minderbinder
I don't think anyone really wants to be monetarily "rich". I just think they want to be able to live affordably, give their wives and children a home, food, and healthcare they don't have to worry about!! Thats NOT WORTHLESS AND GREEDY! I dont care what any of you ignorant right wingers have to say about it. Anyone who WORKS and carries their own weight in the this country DESERVES, and it should be a given right, to have FULL Affordable health care for their entire family, a descent affordable place to live, FAIR representation in their government, and a decent wage and retirement benefits. As our whole world is just an illusion that we have manipulated into the "system" we have now, there is absolutely no reason we cannot make this illusion workable and still allow everyone who works to have a "rich" life.
Exactly!!!!! This is about Ethics!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-occupation-is-not-about-redistribution-of-weal/
With you ..
Lottery
Yes, it is possible with a paradigm shift in thinking. Depending on their credit, they can get a home loan, rent out that home for cash flow. Rinse and repeat. Just one way.
I mean no.
Yes.
Yes. I did it. I have a lot of money and I started with nothing. It can be done!
Our world is formed in faithful replica of our own thoughts. There really is no out there but an in here as our belief system reflects back to us. We must watch the pictures that we paint with our imaginations. Our environment and the conditions of our lives at any given time are the direct result of our own inner expectations.
The inner psychological state is projected outward, gaining physical reality - whatever the psychological state may be. The rules apply to everyone, now and after.
Beautiful. Like a breath of fresh air.
black walnut
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Remember that humanity doesn't last one generation. Many parents are willing to give up all their riches and live miserably to ensure that their children have the best possible education and opportunities.
big bonus
Why are you folks so obsessed with money? There are plenty of miserable rich people. $$$ doesn't make you happy. I have never had much money and am mostly a happy person. I don't envy anyone who has more of anything, house, car, money. Sigh!
no one care about money.. I want your JOB not your money.
I agree. This question was designed to challenge the tea party's assumption that OWS is a bunch of lazy freeloaders.
We are pissed off not lazy.
Define rich and poor.
Yeah if you gamble, maybe. But if you don't have capital (from a bank) you're nothing...well, unless you're the snuggie inventor? Maybe?
Legally: yes
Ethically: no
e.g. gambling in a casino gives good odds but gambling on wallstreet gives better odds.
And if you are a friend of the (white)house the odds are stacked in your favor.
It is impossible to get wealthy by working hard and saving. You only get wealth by investing.
As they say, Jesus Saves... But Moses Invests!
Are you saying investing is bad?
No, that's how you get rich! Being rich isn't bad, that's how you get nice things!
One of the biggest lies that's been thrown at the Occupy movement is that they somehow hate corporations, or hate making money. As I said elsewhere (unfortunately wasting my time with a complete idiot), the people at OWS are a very creative bunch, and they've probably got lots of ideas for good useful business that would enrich them and put lots of people to work. It would be great for all Americans to be rich, and no one denies that. What OWS is about is returning fairness to our country.
So, no, investing is not bad. Neither is getting rich. Neither is working and saving and just raising a family and living a happy life.
Oh, there is another way to get rich: Be a genius like Thomas Edison or Steve Jobs. That will do it, too.
Steve Jobs genius ?
To find the odds, we should take the number of American citizens who are not rich, but are making the effort, and see what percentage of those people achieve wealth. I believe that, at a rough estimate, the ration would look something like 310,000:1.
The answer is certainly yes. I recommend a book called, "The Millionaire Next Door." In summary, it shows how wealth can be accumulated by living prudently with even modest means. Just because you can afford the payments on a brand new BMW doesn't mean you should. If you want to get ahead financially, opt for a low-mileage used car or a less expensive new one. That's the ticket.
I guess you see that as wealth! I certainly define wealth differently!
YES! Steal it. Oh, you sated 'legal means'...
Being "rich" is over rated. I had over $140K in the bank and I was asleep at the wheel until an ill timed car wreck and resulting disability, unemployment, foreclosures (2), and bankruptcy woke me up. Tupac was right, "they don't give a fuck about us".
$140K is not really "rich."
Maybe you should have had catastrophic health insurance like I have? I know - this advice comes too late for you. But I'm mainly speaking to other people...... anywya it only costs me $110 a month plus tax.
I pay cash for everything below $20,000 and if I ever get cancer or other serious damage the insurance will pick-up the tab.
not after your company closed down or your position is eliminated. your living in a dream of security.
If I am jobless I can live off the 1/2 million I saved until the next job comes along. Let me guess - you didn't bother to save and prepare for a "rainy day" either?
why would you need to clutter up the job market if you have half a million dollars.. you can live the rest of your life on that much money
Let's not twist the conversation. You are trying to blame others, but you admitted you didn't save any money and didn't buy insurance.
Anyway: 1/2 a million is NOT enough to live. Even if money held its value (it doesn't) the 1/2 a million would drain to empty before I retired. Then I'd have nothing to live on. (2) The Fed keeps running the printing press and devaluing the paper dollars. Pretty soon it will take 1/2 a million just to pay a year's rent.
A person needs several million in order to retire at age 70 and have it last until around age 100 (death).
you have soc security or did you mean live well?
you just said you could live on 20k a year. make up your mind. your reasoning is not sound as there are billions of people that live on less than a million in an entire life time. and that is fine. as of now.. with no jobs, that american dream is not atainable. you assume everyone wants to live rich when most just want to survive and that is what the fight is about.
1/2 million divided by 20,000 == 25 years. It would run-out before I even hit retirement.
AND as I said: That assumes prices/ money stays constant. Cost of living will go up such that my money will run-out when I'm in my 50s. To "stop working" as you advised would be really stupid.
well ok then but since you think there are jobs out there, why not go find a different one? and let the one we know exist become open for someone else? you are superior to others right? so of course finding a non existent job would not be a problem for you
What the hell are you talking about? We were talking about health insurance and "saving for a rainy day". Now suddenly you're telling me to quit my job? You make no sense.
there are millions of people who have 'stopped working' due to circumstances beyond their control . how do you implement your advice with no job
You should have implemented my advice (buy insurance; save money) back in the early 2000s when you still had a job. And the other 90% who currently work can certainly apply the advice now.
ive never been paid that much remember i am a 50k worker.
You only need ~20,000 to live, so you could have socked-away the other 30,000 in the bank. (Plus get some freakin' insurance at ~$110 / month.)
so you are assuming that i am at least what 40 yrs old?
Michael Moore went from humble to wealthy and he did it making Progressive movies. So you can get rich working for the public good.
Cool.
some land of opportunity, huh? We can fix this together: http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-demand-informed-direct-democracy-online-whos-wit/ or new forum: http://www.occupyr.com/General/thread.php?id=672
I haven't done the math myself, but I suspect the answer is YES.
I agree... However, lets not be naive the odds are stacked against us. Hard work may not always get you a millionare but you will be sure not to starve.
upon closer examination, impossible is very absolute, so no, I cannot say that, however, I can say with confidence it is close to impossible, which would have to do with the mathematical probability of a poor person becoming rich through only hard work (I can only imagine how hard that would be to calculate, but this is all hypothetical, right?)
Ok, I can make this math equation:
as the limit of human potential tends to 0 by the tightening grip of the 1% (the limiting function), prosperity for all especially poor people tends to 0 (or tends to be closer to impossible).
You don't need a calculator, I think there is anecdotal evidence you can draw from to see examples of people moving from rags to riches. Think of rappers(not all), professional athletes(not all), and Steve Jobs... like I said it's unlikely but possible and I think that is what most of are holding on to; the possibility.
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What's wealthy? To the billions of people on this planet who live in real poverty (not our def of poverty), you bet it's possible. Food and a roof over your head is wealthy. Not worrying that your child will die of malaria or starvation is wealthy.
You people concentrate too much on RICH and Wealthy. How about attempting doing OK? The rich seldom have the MONEY. Their wealth is tied up in infrastructure not MONEY.
Please stop insulting our intelligence with untruth.
How did Sam Walton, living in the hills near Bentonville AR with nearly zero money start a Five and Dime in Bentonville and worked hard to become the millionaire person behind Wal Mart? How did Bill Gates, a student at home, start Microsoft? How did Michael Dell, a college student start Dell computers, etc and etc. There are 400 billionairs in AMERICA, most started with little or nothing. GROW UP and your not that intelligent.
sam walton did it by undercutting the competition.. he wasnt poor to start with he was a huge land owner. bill gates stole an cheated as did steve jobs.. watch Triumph of the Nerds to see this is true. they did not get rich thru hard work.
You ALL, have THE response to everything. You miss the point. You will always miss the point. I just gave three out of MILLIONS of examples of billionairs and millionaires and hundreds of thousands of dollar people. If you want to spend months and months of YOUR response to every one of those people and how they made money and YOU CANT,,,,, then go for it. You are the problem and you dont even know it.
just saying this is the method used by most billionaires to get rich. not practical for the 14 million unemployed and i can if i choose research and report on how each an everyone of those millionaires became millionaires almost none will be because they had luck and hard work. almost all will be because they lied stole an cheated.
Pick ANY TIME,,,, yes ANY TIME,,, in history and there was alway richer and poorer. Again, ANY TIME.
Nine out of ten of those did so with a personal loan from friends or family.
You have no idea how intelligent I am.
Ever hear of Mega Society?
YOU,,,, have no idea that 9 out of 10 got a personal loan from family or friends. YOU HAVE NO IDEA. I was JUST talking about billionaires not even the huge number of millionaires and those worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. You said, "Please stop insulting our intelligence with untruths." Pal,,,,,, you are talking off the top of your head. Stop with the rich and wealthy crap.
From Wikipedia
"Angel capital fills the gap in start-up financing between "friends and family" (sometimes humorously given the acronym FFF, which stands for "friends, family and fools") who provide seed funding, and venture capital."
Not including trust funds, etc.
Of course, there is a BIG difference between a personal loan and a business loan. I give you that.
But it doesn't change the "Boulder, CO" Model of doing things.
Your not telling me anything I dont already know. I'm the director of a business incubator and I host a SBTDC. I work with angel investors in St. Louis, KC and Dallas. I have GAP financing available. I have helped people with SBA loans. I have helped people with ZERO money in their pocket. I own businesses also. Rich and wealthy is something to look at as a goal,,, and a goal only. The richest people I know make less than $100,000 a year.
Why are we arguing? I think we are on the same side here. Check out my political affiliation.
I am protesting the transnational conglomerates and some of the billionaires, who ARE Criminals.
Not Sean who has an IT and computer troubleshooting company with two employees.
These are the first of my post and your reply. Nothing I said was untrue as you replied.
mynameisfred1 points 53 minutes ago You people concentrate too much on RICH and Wealthy. How about attempting doing OK? The rich seldom have the MONEY. Their wealth is tied up in infrastructure not MONEY.
SirPoeticJustice (New York, NY) 1 points 42 minutes ago Please stop insulting our intelligence with untruth.
Because the True wealthy. Not the 1% but the .001%. their wealth is NOT tied up in infrastructure. It is in multiple places, gold, commodities, securities, banks, real estate, holding companies, insurance, etc etc etc.
No. Maybe the lottery!!
Yes. The question is, how many here have tried? No, I'm not talking about going around handing resumes out to department stores, I'm talking about researching the market and trying to sell products and/or services intelligently and not giving up.
Unfortunately, most people get a 9-5 and spend their entire check on useless crap instead of saving and investing in themself, which is the best investment anyone can make.
Well if we define "wealthy" as the top 1% then yes it's certainly possible. I came from a blue-collar family and my first job paid a mere $3.75 an hour.
NOW I am earning $96. In a few more years I'll eclipse the $346,000 salary that would put me in the top 1%.
So..... YES it is possible.
Not impossible at all but the odds are against it.
Definitely not. You yourself could wake up tomorrow a multi-millionaire. And the Internet may very well be your meal ticket.