Forum Post: Is anyone else getting the feeling things are about to fall apart?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 7, 2011, 10:57 a.m. EST by nishaf94
(0)
from Dubai, Dubai
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Police violence against peaceful OWS protestors, the senate allowing the military to arrest anyone without cause or trial (National Defense Authorization Act), pizza is now a vegetable, internet censorship and obama putting in 154,000 troops into iraq..
is it time for anarchy yet? or should we wait until we're arrested for saying that?
The elite ruling class is feeling threatened and getting backed into a corner. The fight or flight instinct is kicking in and they are electing to fight. They can call it whatever they want but if you put the Frank Luntzs aside you all still know what it is, a fight for justice. They may call it terrorism, a word they have been reserving for enemies, but to most of us, it is a fight for rights.
Sounds like the control freaks are throwing a temper tantrum.
how can you start anarchy. Start it and another nation will come in and take us over. If it is anarchy you want go to an uninhabited island and leave the rest of us alone.
About to? Isn't that relative to one's socio-economic status?
Stay strong and especially, peaceful. The increased confusion is an indication that the forces that seek to oppress the 99% are getting scared. It would be a terrible mistake to panic now. Just redouble your efforts.
Let us put things back together by occupying here.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
The reason societies fall apart is indeed due to injustice.
The problem WE have to deal with, is that American citizens no longer agree with what is right/good/correct and what is wrong/bad/incorrect.
People who are in solid agreement regarding their social mores-the values and standards of behavior that are appropriate for a society and accepted by the majority of it's citizens-will naturally identify and unite against the abuses of those mores.
People who are NOT in solid agreement regarding their social mores will NOT be able to identify OR unite against the abuses of those mores.
Since this country was established on just and honorable principles, every elite ruling class that has existed since that day has worked continually and determinedly to get the populace to adopt THOUSANDS of ideologies that are in opposition to those principles in degrees that vary from slightly different to the complete antithesis of them.
Every time one of these poisonous and corrosive ideas has taken hold, it has weakened us as a people and a nation just a little bit. A dash more tolerance here, a little more acceptance there. They focus us on tiny little baby steps, nudge us at this point, shove us on this issue, dangle a carrot over here, talk about how exciting the destination is! And when we finally looked up-starting about 4-5 years ago-we were a thousand miles away from where we started.
We're so far away from that beautiful foundation-that was intended to build the strongest, most successful MOST BENEVOLENT country in the world-that NOW they point to it off in the distance and tell us "It's impossible to go back!" "Let's build something different where we are now" "It's an old and antiquated notion anyway....let's just forget about it".
They HAD to lead us here step by step, inch by inch, distracting us the entire time with false arguments and accusations and insinuations because they knew that if the majority of American citizens realized where they were headed, and how they were being manipulated, they would rise up as ONE and destroy their influence forever.
Our Founding Fathers tried to warn us that they would do this, because they've done it in every civilization that's ever existed. So they taught us to ignore the Founding Fathers. They painted them as people they were not by using one or two "facts" as PROOF that all the rest of who and what they are must surely be as terrible as those things APPEAR to be. Our Founding Fathers TOLD us what to do if and when they succeeded, so of course they must discredit these men to the point where at least all the idiots who let other people think for them would have zero faith in anything the founders said.
They stopped teaching critical thinking skills in schools and colleges. Skills that are mandatory for discerning truth from lies and fact from opinion. They started undermining people's religious beliefs that disagreed with their agenda because people must naturally look towards something bigger than themselves in order to determine who they are and how they fit into the world around them. If they can get people to believe the government is the biggest and most powerful thing they can reference, then of COURSE those people will look to that government to tell them who and what they are.
But we can still "see" the Constitution and the original Republic from here. We can still return to it because they haven't achieved total control over all of us. And we don't have to cause a war or resort to anarchy to achieve it. We just have to stand together and INSIST that we are not moving until they return to the values and principles that the majority of us DEMANDS. Period.
The only question remaining is-can and will the majority of the citizens of the United States agree to a very specific, clearly outlined, common sense list of values and social mores AND specific, clearly outlined, common sense rules/laws for PUNISHING those who abuse those values? CAN they? Will they?
Because if they cannot, or will not, then we deserve what we have right now, and we will be made to suffer the consequences of what we have allowed to happen.
When people embrace being honest and walk their talk as a person is only as good as his/her word, then we have a chance of rebuilding this once great nation in united we stand.
If the American people CAN and WILL agree to do that-then we HAVE to stop listening to the ruling elite! ALL OF THEM! We have to stop focusing on who they say is to blame. We have to ignore their input altogether. WE PUT THEM THERE. And they are VERY AWARE that as long as they can get us to focus on, and direct all our energy towards DISTRACTIONS that accomplish NOTHING-they remain in control.
Pointing fingers-does nothing to save the country. Yelling at each other does nothing to save the country. Occupying empty houses and parks does nothing to save the country. And apparently marching on Washington D.C. by the hundreds of thousands hasn't save the country. You can't "SAVE" a dying victim by standing on a street corner and screaming accusations about the person or thing that caused the injury. In fact, you can't save a dying victim by focusing on ANYTHING or ANYONE except the victim!!!
You have to STOP what is causing them to bleed out, or seize, or stop breathing. You have to PRESERVE the organs and tissue that are ESSENTIAL to LIFE. My word people, there is a logical/common sense reason that doctors do not attempt to "create something else" or take the time to discuss and vote upon and reach consensus on what they want the victim to BECOME after they save it...WHILE it's dying.
That's because IT MAKES NO SENSE to try to build a better, faster, more efficient human being while it's in critical condition because the odds of that being surviving and actually becoming all those things-are miniscule if you try to do it while it's dying. They increase exponentially the stronger, more healthy, more able to participate in the process that being is. Common sense dictates that you get it back on it's feet-to a condition that will survive, before you attempt to anything else.
This applies to ALL horrible events. You don't save something by focusing on what caused it. You don't let the car burn with your child inside it while you and your friends organize a march on the car lot that sold you the car. Or the people who built the barrier you crashed through. Or the people who did NOT fill in the canyon next to the road you went off of!! It doesn't make sense!
It indicates insanity. It indicates that you care more about PUNISHING whomever you see as guilty, than you do about SAVING what you claim to love. It indicates a total lack of common sense and ability to prioritize what matters MOST and should come FIRST in any sequence of events. AND-most importantly-it prevents any and all people who DO have common sense and the ability to determine what the most effective course of action SHOULD be-and IS-from paying the slightest bit of attention to you. They're too busy working on how to get the child out of the car. NOW.
Anarchy seems to be one of those things that manifests itself, without external intervention or intent. It needs no assistance.
Anarchy is the state of lawlessness and disorder. If no law remains sacred to all, then nothing is sacred and you leave it to everyone to determine what they want and how they want to achieve it.
It may need no assistance, but it does need direction and focus.
Adorable, you have described the current situation in a great many places in the world today. Directing and focusing anarchy seems as possible as the proverbial box of water sent in the mail. Any direction away from corruption is surely better than more corruption, even if that change leans toward the uncontrollable and unpredictable.
I'm saying that SOME "aways" from corruption are less dangerous and less traumatic than others. People naturally react against chaos in a self defensive manner. We're geared towards ORDER.
You incite all out anarchy and the guns will come out and those who oppose you will take a very firm stand against you. It should be your last resort, not the next logical step after screaming your lungs out and being obnoxious for three months.
The people are watching now. You've got their attention. How you MOVE and what you move towards next plays a huge role in whether or not you get viewed as just another enemy to society to be added to the list along with the bankers or as a logical, sensible movement that really has the ability to change things for the better or not.
Choosing a polite method of eradicating such total corruption is naive and childish. Some embrace chaos and disorder, usually those who are more adept to think quickly on their feet. The more entrenched in a need for order, the more dissapointed one is when it ceases to exist, and the harder they will cling to what little will remain of it. I do not "incite" anarchy, it walks hand in hand with oppression. In fact, it is often the remedy for oppression, albeit short lived.
The American Circus- The Central Intelligence Agency http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF5b9StGHaU
The American Circus- The Sideshow Corruption http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNAhn9SwbvM
The American Circus- The 2012 Elections http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wt1tST01uQ
Time Magazine Dec 5 2011 issue: Will be Censored in the United States. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9OLLbC7zFs
Evolution or Mankind? Mass Wildlife Death Sweeps Globe 2011 Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBWNT4JN9bY
Evolution or Mankind? Mass Wildlife Death Sweeps Globe 2011 Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prIOuViMLw4
No Fracking Way- Acid Mine Drainage & Earthquakes?!? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz4VYLBrIgY
Update November 18th 2011: PA DEP Allows Acid Mine Water to be Used in Fracking
http://marcellusdrilling.com/2011/11/pa-dep-allows-acid-mine-water-to-be-used...
Trying to inform the public is the most difficult, Forward this
@ Fiction Thanks for the links... I will be posting them in the other forums I belong to.
Here is a shining example of the corruption in the government right down to the local level... lets privatise an essential service, woohoo I'm sure the two home-owners in question are just lovin' livin' in the American Dream... for sure!!!
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/tennessee-family-home-burns-while-firefighters-watch-191241763.html
I would bet that these home-owners worked their asses off and paid their property tax and mortgage. But evidently that doesn't mean a thing, yet again.
The local public response to this travesty...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HOME_LEFT_TO_BURN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFA
Furthermore...
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/rural-tennessee-fire-sparks-conservative-ideological-debate.html
No drama.
What he said. In fact, much of the drama that we are experiencing, in terms of the wild fluctuations in the stock market, are precisely because the media causes too much drama. That and the fact that money can be instantly pulled out from the stock market due to the invention of electronic transactions.
No it's not. The drama in the market is caused by the highly leveraged risk put into are banking system by the unregulated sales of derivatives. Markets have no idea how much risk is out there because our banks are acting like casinos instead of banks. It's not the media it's lack of transparency with our fed and our banks.
But you absolutely cannot say that the public itself doesn't cause drama. Think of where people go to invest when the economy looks bad. Gold and silver, which drives the prices up, signaling fear. Also, when the economy is bad, people hoard food, driving the costs for food up.
Food prices did not go up due to hoarding, They went up due to a rise in commodity prices. This was caused by the fed's Quantitative easing. When the fed dumped a bunch of dollars into the market the dollar went down, since food and oil commodity futures are priced in dollars --------those commodities went up, fueled by speculators, of course.
So, would you say that the public buying food en masse doesn't in any way cause price increases?
Well if everyone stopped buying food the price would surely go down. The prime mover for the increase in food prices these last few years was fed policy. The fed policy moves were a panic reaction to the real estate crash. Unless you can find me proof that Americans have put on 40 or 50 pounds each over the last couple of years(and please don't post those photo's from wal-mart : > ) )
Prehaps at some time - more than likely, the grocery stores would see a loss (in perishibles) and the prices might actually increase for awhile to cover this loss. The sale of food, however, is more of an equal demand everyday in and out, supplied on a short term basis without a local buffer (backup supplies actually in the store). If everyone stopped buying food, the price might not change at all, there would probably be a temporary decrease in perishible items to clear inventory but this would be adjusted rapidly and the supplies coming into the store would adjust to demand. HOWEVER, the growers and processors, would see the definite trend and the final result would probably be a lot of farm produce etc left in the fields unpicked and unprocessed. Seasonal price decreased are common in the grocery market to move excess pershible inventory. Thus you see steaks at a high price in the summer but at a lower price around Thanksgiving. Pork may be sold at a reduced price if the supply is in excess of needs, likewise with beef, etc, however, this price is the result of the grower-producer needs to move inventory not necessarily anything having to do with everyone stopping buying food.
More than likely the scenerio was this. There was great hype placed on "ethanol" as the latest fad. This fad involved burning our food supply in exchange for transportation.
To meet this demand and to take advantage of the rising prices for the commodity "corn" farmers simply planted more acreage to corn.
This, to balance, caused other commodity prices to rise because the land formerly planted to wheat, soybeans, alfalfa etc.was pulled from production in favor of the commodity "corn".
The demand for corn to make ethanol continued and the cycle continued until you see the balance reached today of $8.50 +- per bushel of corn ( a commodity which in one form or the other appears in 75% of the food products in your grocery store today.
I am sure that the other things you mentioned in your post had some effect to , but to the Iowa farmer - this is the scenerio that they were playing under.
Using corn for ethanol doesn't help and paying farmers to grow ethanol corn is something I'd love to see end. It's bad for our food system in general -cows eat grass ,corn makes them sick. We eat meat from a lot of sick cows due to corn subsidies. But really really really this year's food price spike ---coffee wheat rice etc. was caused by the QE fed moves.
Very few cows eat grass other than the free range cattle in the west, however, you need to check your facts regarding how that cow is fattened up for market - that is not grass that the cattle are eating in the feed lots across America.
The QE may have had a temporary effect on food prices, but I really don't think you will see an overall decrease until you see the balance return that ethanol upset in a very very signifcant way. That trucker hauling corn goes to one of three places:
This is a bidding process and ethanol is now calling the shots.
I'm 100% with you about ethanol. It's awful for family farms and our food system in general
It may be a solution for some but it is a disaster for the rest of us.
Brazil has a similar program to produce ethanol but IT IS not all about corn. Their approach was much better planned and considered before implementation.
Do you want to tell me about how they fatten cows? I'm pretty good with banking / trading / wall streets over leveraged systemic disasters, but farming's something I don't know much about.
In our area of the country (West) cattle run on open range eating grass and rancher provided hay. Once they reach a certain weight (or age) they are sold as feeders and are shipped to feed lots in areas such as those in Kansas, Nebraska, Texas, etc.
There the cattle are fattened for market, being fed special high diet food until they are ready to be sold to the processors. This food can be any combination of grains, plants, processed plant-animal concentrates, etc.
how do the ethanol subsidies fit into this scenario?
The emphasis on use of the commodity "corn" has pushed the per bushel of corn from $2.50 - $4.40 - over $ 8.00 per bushel. Yet the country is producing more of this commodity that ever before - thus you have to look at where the demand has increased to tie it to the reason for the increase - the biggest existing factor if the tremendous demand for corn in the production of ethanol in this country.
The farmers are having a very good time financially. The food consumers are paying the price at the grocery store as higher prices for food (75% of which contains some form of corn or corn product in it). Add that increase in the price of the raw commodity whether you look at a bottle of corn syrup or a cut of beef (corn fed) along with the increased cost of transportation (diesel fuel) you see the entire thing represented in the form of higher food prices.
Consider also the fact that increased land usage to produce corn takes land out of availability for production of other crops (wheat, alfalfa, soybeans, etc), and you will find a corresponding increase in the cost of those commodities also (though probably not as dramatic as that of corn)
Please don't think I'm being hard headed , It's something I want to know more about. How does this become a disaster for us?
Hi demcapitalist - ran out of threads so I am back up here now.....
Great talking with you - I very much appreciate your questions, etc.
This becomes a "disaster" in the sense that we get a few cents cheaper gasoline at the pump for our automobiles, and while it is cheaper to go to the grocery store - it takes a lot more money to get out (to pay for the increased cost of the food we purchase there)
If you have been following the increased prices of food in general and especially those depending upon corn etc for their basis, and allowing for the increased transportation costs, you see the affect this is having on our food prices today. This leads to an overall price increase since so many of our food items contain "corn" in one form or another. EX: that cucumber may very well be coated with an editable coating=corn, that coke's second ingredient = a corn product, that boneless-skinless chicken breast used to be $1.99 per lb. on sale for $1.59 = a sale price today of $1.99 and a much higher everyday price. etc.
An Iowa farmer will politely tell you that "you cannot burn your food for fuel for your car".
I can't argue with the public's contribution to market hysteria, in particular the kool-aid drinkers in the gold market. It's just that the current hysteria about Europe shouldn't really affect our markets as much as it is doing. That is due to the lack of information about America's banks exposure through leveraged bets on Eurodebt. (Think MF Global)
Dubai is a special case. These sheiks let others build ugly skyscrapers for them in a desert. Of course it became a giant failure.
When did this happen?
"Getting the feeling things are about to fall apart?"
Not me but then again I am not one of the OWS morons.
I have a great job that let's me work from home and combined with my wife's job we bring home just under 200k a year.
You see that is what happens when you play the game right. You get a company to pay for you to go to school while working and collecting a pay check then once you have the degree you go and improve your job situation a little bit. Once you gain the experience you then market yourself to companies in need of your knowledge. If you pick the right one and work real hard you can throw your weight around to convince the big dogs to hire your wife and give her your same salary. Then you willingly take on enough of a work load to where you can justify transit to work as being a waste of time and inefficient. Then you just set things up to be relient. I love capitalism because when you make it work for yourself the benefits are just great.
I sit at home at my desk facing a wall that has an 80" flat screen LED tv hanging on it connected to a 400 disc blue ray dvd player and an xbox 360. I have a batting cage in my backyard along with an outdoor pool table and a miniature golf course. I have a membership to recieve premium steaks each month to hold me over. I can take a vacation whenever I want without putting in a notice. My end of the year bonus check which is not part of my salary allows me to purchase a car cash if I choose to use it as such.
I come from a tough background. My parents had 9 children and my dad passed away when I was 13. My mom worked very hard to avoid the dependance of welfare. I learned from her that if you need a solution then you can only rely on yourself to make it happen.
You are no different than the advantage of the Corporate usury. Except in reverse. The perfect example of "I've got mine the hell with you"
No the benefits for society and the common good are not great in this situation. This is called erosion.
It's called gettin off you butt and getting to work.
You.re done before you started.Iraq is over. Always trials. Pizza is still dairy...w/cheese. Never censorship. Anarchy is for people who want no rules.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg