Forum Post: Inclusiveness
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 6:53 a.m. EST by GypsyKing
(8708)
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I have had some interesting discussions with liberatarians and conservatives here tonight, and I am very surprized and excited to see that between the trolls there are actually conservatives trying to connect to this movement. We should listen to those who are honestly trying to connect, and do everything in our power, short of changing our goals, of course, to include them. If this movement crossed cultural and racial divides, ect., it would be unstoppable!
I'm a 1%'er Republican ne Libertarian, and there's only ONE MESSAGE I have seen in my MANY days speaking with folks here that would inspire ME and all my FRIENDS to JOIN YOU...
GIVE US BACK OUR GOVERNMENT !
See the proposal at http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/
Great post, thanks 1%er.
If you are a 1%er, it is your government! Not ours any longer!
Just because I've done well doesn't mean I don't want what's RIGHT for ALL Americans. I LOVE this country and the IDEALS on which it is founded. It's being RUINED by all the MONEY being thrown around Washington.
Completely agree. We need more conservative and libertarian voices. We can agree on the important things and leave our personal agendas until after we fix the system to actually represent THE PEOPLE.
I love the idea of inclusiveness. And I love the idea of an ideal or principle that could unite a vast majority of Americans. i engage with a lot of conservatives in a variety of ways. I think that they might agree on separating business and its money from government. But the majority of conservatives I know have bought into the notion that business is superior and should be able to do things the way it wants.
Hippie,
I have made a feeble attempt to capture the PATRIOTIC spirit of the movement into a statement I think would get the support of ALL AMERICANS.
See http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/
That's true, but surely people can be brought around to realize that business is one thing, corporate business another. Corporations prevent individual initiative, they don't promote it.
Of course conservatives are not all alike. I'm in contact with vocal conservatives every day. The only OWS supporters I've found are the ones who believe it will help them in 2012 to elect one of the Republicans. They compare this to the 1968 election. There was a strong activist movement in the streets. But it was ultimately disillustioned because there was no candidate who represented them so they stayed home rather than vote strategically to get at least part of what they wanted. Nixon won after campaigning heavily against the protest movement. You can probably find a youtube video of his cry "Hit the books or hit the road."
Right now this movement has more support than either democrats, or republicans, and I do believe it's time for the movement to declair goals that are simple, straightforward and would unite this large majority. And I do believe that getting the money out of politics would be a good place to start. I really believe that by far the majority of Americans, even my friend Rico here, are fed up with corruption. Corruption really is the problem, so lets focus on that issue, and focus relentlessly. It will draw millions to this movement! Just my opinion.
Personally, I don't CARE who we elect, as long as it's a DEMOCRATIC election decided by the PEOPLE rather than MONEY.
You should care. Otherwise it doesn't matter if it's democratic or not.
Of COURSE, I would probably have a PREFERENCE (though it eludes me at present).. what I meant to say is that I'm willing to ABIDE by the Democratic process without COMPLAINT once I know it's DECIDED based on what THE PEOPLE have decided rather then MONEY.
OCCUPY LOGO worldwide. Print it out or easy to draw. But a single symbol we can all stand behind as the movement goes international.
http://occupylogo.blogspot.com/
Really good idea!
I have even heard some say we should exclude democrats. That is madness; we need to include as many people as possible, while at the same time retaining our independence from everybody!
I agree with you, I've had some good discussions with people who came here seemingly with a chip on their shoulder to begin with.
We need to unite behind the goals we have in common.
Yes, we need to be able to separate the trolls from those who actally are feeling kicked around by the system, and help them to see that we are on their side, no leaders, no bullshit, just change!
I would imagine conservatives would be included by default, would they not? Its not exactly like there is a clearly defined goal list that everyone is supporting with a single voice. The goals range from "End the Fed" to "End corporate Greed" to "Peace and Love for All" to "Bring back 8 track tapes".
If, for any reason, conservatives were somehow excluded, it would seem like they would be the only group that was(outside of minorities).
That's true, all I'm saying is that the 1% love the fact that Americans are divided almost equally between the two parties. That enables them to get their way almost 100% of the time. Somehow that division must be bridged. How I don't know, but 99% of us really are all in this boat together and if they keep us divided we will fall.
"Short of changing our goals"?!?
If your goals wouldn't be embraced by the majority of Americans, then you've already lost. Your goals need to represent what the majority of this country would accept.
Wrong.
How can you claim to represent the 99% if 100% of that 99% doesn't agree with your goals?
Maybe you need to change your slogan to accurately reflect the number of people you actually DO represent?
Yeah,, nobody cares that they've been ripped-off of their livlihoods and their futures by a handful of sociopaths. In your dreams pal!
No body stole my livelihood. No body stole my future. BOTH are up to me. As long as you believe that someone else has the power over your life, there will always be someone willing to accept that role from you.
The person or group or ideology that is telling you that your life is controlled by others, is the person or group or ideology that is using you for THEIR agenda already.
The bottom line here, according to you, is "me".
It is what it is.
At the moment.
At every moment. Life has ups and downs and sorrows and joys. It has always been that way. Livelihoods change every day. But your future will be your future no matter what happens in this moment. The only person who can change your future....is you.
If human beings could survive alone, without support from the larger community, you would be right. Unfortunately, that couldn't be further from the truth. Of all the living things we are he most dependent upon one another. This concept of every man for himself is just a spurious notion put forward by those who have succeded in stealing most of the planets resources. If this wasn't true we could put you in a cage with a hyeana and see if your" pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" theory would bring you out on top.
I never said "every man for himself", that is your opinion of what I said. I am saying that every man is responsible for the decisions and choices he makes in regards to the propensities of "the larger community".
But your argument undermines itself and proves my point. Your analogy requires that there be a "larger community" who, instead of supporting me, chooses instead to put me in a cage with a hyena in order to make an example of me.
My point is that if I even suspected that members of that "larger community" would or could do that to me, I would do everything in my power to minimize their chances to do it.
That was simply an analogy. I have no desire to put anyone in any cage, except thosespecific individuals who have profited massively through the criminal collusion that is the corporate system. Your fear, which I think underlies tour opposition to what we are trying to accomplish, is unwarrented unless you are among a tiny minority in this country, the 1% that have ruined us financially and prevented us from responding effectively to an impending environmental disaster.
My fear lies in hearing someone say that our "futures" have been "ripped off" if that person does not own a time machine. Saying that these banks STOLE something that doesn't even exist yet is not rational.
whatever.
Exactly, but we need is a comprehensive strategy, and related candidate, that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.