Forum Post: I'm SICK of all the Obama trolls spamming this forum!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 3:38 p.m. EST by Zyzz
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Stop with the propaganda! Obama is NO friend to the 99%. We supported him in 08', and he turned his back on us after getting elected. Now he's back with more false promises.
Obama trolls, either put up ideas, or GTFO! posting links to his website does us no good.
I agree that people need to put up ideas or "GTFO" but we don't really need anti-Obama trolls either, so with respect, follow your own message.
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You wouldn't get anything better. The problem is the influence corporations have on campaigns, and no candidate can single-handedly make that go away. Personally, I think Obama has done the best he could under constant Republican duress and in a system that by it's current nature is corrupt. I know you'll disagree with that, but just remember that he didn't invade a country to raise his vice-president's stock prices. Please don't forget what we had under Bush. It sucks that the standards for our politicians are so low, but that's why we are protesting the political/financial system, not the candidates.
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My guess would be because he thought he had a lot of knowledge and could do a good job. And I'm not saying I'm not disappointed in Obama, but what I am saying is that I think a lot of your frustration comes from one key skill that Obama lacks: the ability to barter. He always comes to the table with a compromise, and when the Republicans see it they say to themselves "that's the position of the left, so we need to go further right". Basically they are masters at bartering. Because of this we are constantly forced into compromises further and further to the right. The primary culprit here is the media's inability to engage in journalism. Instead they spend all their time on punditry and we rarely see a civil reasonable argument between intelligent members of the left and the right.
So, I guess you ran across Obama2012 as well?
Okay, so here's a question: How should the problem be addressed?
To be sure, you do recognize that there are some sincere supporters of OWS here that also support President Obama, right?
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Agreed. Obama2012 is abusing this forum, which is both annoying and unhelpful for his cause.
OWS is not a partisan movement. We are not interested in collectively endorsing or condemning particular politicians. We demand all politicians to represent us now and to hold Wall Street accountable.
For sure, I do recognize that "there are some sincere supporters of OWS here that also support Obama".
But, for the life of me, I CANNOT understand that they have not yet seen through the persona of this smooth-talker who has betrayed, not only his most ardent supporters - I used to be one myself! - but THE WHOLE NATION, which he is running into the ground.
OWS and OBAMA are I N C O M P A T I B L E in every conceivable way, for the same reason that OWS and David Koch, or OWS and Mitt Romney are incompatible.
IN FACT, I think we will soon be seeing Obama's true colors.... I have a strong hunch that the Prez harbors a deep HATRED - and probably jealousy as well - for OWS and that, behind that phony smile of his, he is plotting to utterly destroy the Movement. We must be VIGILANT to ensure that he utterly FAILS.
Well, consider this:
OWS is not a pro-Obama movement. We are a pro-change movement that is non-partisan. We don't care what party you're affiliated with or what ideology you subscribe to; if you recognize the real problems we're facing today and you promote real solutions to them, then we will support you.
That said, as we judge Obama on his performance as President over the last 2.5 years, it's a good idea to keep in mind the substantial change that he has brought to America that give me some hope for the future:
1) He passed healthcare reform
2) He signed the New START treaty on nuclear disarmament and got it ratified
3) He had Osama bin Laden found and killed
4) He issued an executive order ending torture and rendition
5) He repealed DADT
6) He passed the Matthew Shepard Act
7) He signed the Lilly Ledbetter Act
8) He regulated the financial sector
9) He passed the stimulus bill
10) He saved the auto industry
11) He raised fuel efficiency standards drastically
12) He appointed Sotomayor and Kagan to the Supreme Court
It is also important to recognize his substantial failures:
(a) He has not closed Guantanamo
(b) He has not allowed the Bush Tax Cuts on the rich to expire as scheduled.
(c) He has not protected enough homeowners from foreclosure
(d) He has not passed Cap & Trade
(e) He has made no progress towards peace between Israel and Palestine
(f) We are still at war
(g) Washington remains as polarized, corrupt, and incompetent as ever.
While we should recognize Obama's significant successes, we should continue to push for these important issues where he has failed. Individuals should make up their own minds about whom to vote for in 2012. But OWS as a movement should recognize that Obama has brought some substantial change to America that we support, even as we demand that much more be done as we seek to hold Wall Street accountable.
SisterRay writes:
"Well, consider this: OWS is not a pro-Obama movement. We are a pro-change movement that is non-partisan. We don't care what party you're affiliated with or what ideology you subscribe to; if you recognize the real problems we're facing today and you promote real solutions to them, then we will support you."
The "we" makes it sound as though you are speaking for the Movement. ARE YOU IN FACT AUTHORIZED to do so by OWS? Are you the official spokesperson for the Movement? If not, you should REPHRASE at least that second sentence ("We are..."), as it risks misleading your readers.
Is there anything controversial about this statement? Surely you'll grant that this is a non-partisan movement, as it is universally held to be. And surely you'll grant that OWS will support people who promote real solutions to the real problems we are organizing around, as all rational people would do.
So what do you find objectionable or misleading here?
SisterRay:
DON'T CHANGE THE SUBJECT. I asked you two crystal-clear questions: "The "We" makes it sound as though you are speaking for the Movement. ARE YOU IN FACT AUTHORIZED to do so by OWS? Are you the official spokesperson for the Movement?"
THAT is the question, so please stop equivocating like a politician. If I don't get a CLEAR answer very soon, I will have to report you to OWS for posing as an authorized spokesperson.
You're the one changing the subject, my friend. OWS has no spokesperson; we all speak for the movement. What we say is either true or false of the movement, i.e. it genuinely represents the movement or it misrepresents the movement.
Is it true to say that OWS is non-partisan? Yes.
Is it true to say that OWS will support people who promote real solutions to the real problems we are organizing around? Yes.
So, again, what do you find objectionable or misleading here?
SiaterRay writes:
"OWS has no spokesperson; we all speak for the movement." If this is literally true, then it makes NO SENSE at all. Any psycho with a computer anywhere in the world could start commenting and making the most absurd, contradictory, inflammatory or even unlawful statements and preface them with a casual "We at OWS think...." and nobody would know that he's just delirious? Don"t you agree with me that it would spell utter chaos? THAT is my concern here - NOT the opinions you are defending, which are another matter entirely.
Sorry, but have you been reading anything in this forum? ;-)
I grant that there's something a little unsettling about such decentralization of power and messaging, but that's how true grassroots movements work.
I wouldn't get too stressed out about it though. As you will find if you speak to people at OWS or read through the posts on this forum, participants in the movement are pretty good at figuring out whether someone is a genuine participant or is just there to shout and make others listen to him. There are some very keen troll-spotters on this forum keeping the inflammatory posters (e.g. vox, nozog, eatshit, and, yes, Obama2012) at bay.
As for the claims by genuine participants about what OWS is all about? That's an ongoing negotiation. If someone says something in the name of OWS that doesn't seem quite right (e.g. the flat-tax people here), it's up to the rest of us to call them out on it. That's why I asked whether you found something objectionable or misleading about what I had said. Insofar as the claims are truly representative of OWS, there's no concern about which OWS participant expresses them. We are OWS and we can speak for ourselves.
Your condescending tone is NOT helping this discussion... Neither are your dubious tactics. Are you with the Obama organization? You sure sound like it!
I seem to recall an OFFICIAL POST by OWS stating most emphatically that no statement coming from any person is to be taken as an official OWS position unless it is posted by "OccupyWallSt".
Anyway, I have no more time to waste going in circles with you. I will take this up with OWS.
Again, I'm not sure what you mean here. Dubious tactics? "Official" positions? "Taking this up with OWS"? Really, much more clarification is needed here.
I'm sorry if I offended you. I was just trying to speak the truth. If I said something wrong, I'd be happy to correct it. Just let me know.
Peace,
Politicians are spending more time running for office than running the country. They work their connections and corporations for campaign funds and promise legislation to favor contributors. Its the same for both parties. However, with that said, I think Obama has done a pretty decent job considering how much resistance he is getting from the Republican side who is hell bent on stopping everything he does. They would see Obama fail even if it means putting the country farther behind.
Zyzz is dead bro. U mirin?
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The Obama trolls aren't here to support Obama.
They're here as trolls, to tie his name to this movement.
Herman Cain, anyone?
I suspect Obama has done little if anything different from what McCain would have done had he won. Obama had lots of opportunities and a mandate that he squandered. No way he'll get my vote again.
Obama is in tighter with Wall St and the banks than the Republicans. If we allow him, or any other politician to co-opt this movement we are all fools!
That's not fair. Obama has been the leader in addressing corporate wall st greed.
In WORDS, Obama is always soooooo eloquent - but in ACTION he becomes the "wimp" with "no balls" that prominent Democrat strategist James Carville publicly and unapologetically decries.
Be that as it may, this movement is neither pro-Obama nor anti-Obama. Feel free to post pro-Obama sentiments on all those stupid anti-Obama troll posts, but we just don't need more diversions.
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Zyzz, you can't possibly be saying we would have been better off with Cain/Palin.
Are you?
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Personally, I like Russ Feingold. But he's too far left as I am. We usually at least try to put someone up who can win.
Actions like this have led to Wall Street donations to flow to Romney this year, and corporate heads are having fits and lobbying like crazy.
Obama does not care about the people, he just uses them to get elected. Both parties are corrupt, what we need to do is break the monopoly of the 2 party system and get true independents elected to office!
Obama and his goons have not done their jobs so the people are taking over it looks like with OWS.
Obama is owned by Goldman Sachs.... He has barely recognized OWS and the people. I was fooled into voting for him, but I can tell you since our "only" choice is Obama or a Republican I am not voting because the country is going to hell either way!
Speak of the devil.