Forum Post: If you have never head Ron Paul speak, please give him a chance tonight in the debate LIVE STREAM
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 8:14 p.m. EST by taxbax
(159)
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If you can stand the dumbasses around him who get much more airtime, he just might change your mind about him.
I usually dare not speak his name here because of the mis-conceptions and prejudices that abound but he is speak as I type so I plead with you to give him a chance, from his own mouth.
As reputable as your preferred news sources may be, there is nothing that compares to someone speaking for themselves.
Please tune in now.
Can someone who supports Ron Paul please explain why it's okay to let person who shows up in an emergency room die if he doesn't have health insurance?
it is not morally ok, and, especially as a doctor, Paul would agree with that and help the person. BUT his point it is not the government's role to provide that care. That is the basis of the libertarianism. The people should be moral and philanthropic, the government should be small and efficient.
regardless of his personal views, he would never enforce them on people. For instance, he is pro-life but he would never outlaw abortion, he believes free people ought to have the option to decide that for themselves, not to have the government decide it for you.
I watched some of the last debate, He is the only one who makes sense
They have lied about him winning the last 3 online polls. Fox lied, then CNN, then he just won the DC Values Voter Poll on Friday.
It is unbelievable how they keep ignoring him, ridiculing him, dismissing him. That alone should tell you that the Establishment is very, very afraid of this man's ideas. They know his message of peace, liberty, and sound money resonates with people.
Instead, we've had at least 12 years of war, government intrusion into our lives on every level, a ramping up of spying and now even assassination of U.S. citizens, and we are poised on the edge of hyperinflation and a global depression because of widespread fraud, government collusion, smothering debt on all levels, and fiat currency.
Peace, liberty, and sound money is sounding pretty good to this freedom-minded organic suburban hippy neofarmer who knows how to shoot a gun and raise chickens, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka1ym7S3F3w&feature=related
I don't mind if people decide they aren't for RP, but so many people are willing to write him off without even listening to what he says. They say stuff like "I heard he's crazy. no thanks."
that is exactly why i made this post. sadly, it is so hard to get people to listen and change their minds these days.
Notice how he usually gets a standing ovation from the crowd. Really, nice guy. But, too bad he has to be a sheep in wolf's clothing and disguise himself as a Republican just to be part of the debates. :oD
I have heard Ron Paul speak and i will pass. Sorry, i agree with him on ending the wars and a very few of his social issues but that's it.
would you rather have 5 wars going and trillions spent on them as opposed to what ever you don't like about Paul's policies?
Obama's silencing of the anti-war left is one of the greatest tragedies of his tenure.
I would keep our current system that we have right now, with all the greed and corruption before i ever supported Ron Paul's utopia world... And all Democrats, Liberals and Progressive would feel the same way once they hear what his real and entire message is. Hell even Republicans side with the Left when it comes to Ron Paul.
He has a great message and all but that's where it ends. Besides, he is just another broken politician working inside our broken system. Neither Ron Paul or any other politician is the answer.
garyjohnson2012.com
Who is Gary Johnson and why would i care what he has to say ? Are you trying to tell me he is not another greedy politician pandering for votes from the public and money from the elite ?
no he doesn't take money from corporations that might why you don't know him just take a look at his website he's a good guy
What's your ideal?
sad, peace should be a priority.
Peace is a priority, but we can achieve peace with out destroying the country.
good question. I don't see any other candidates speaking a message of peace, however.
Maybe because they are broken and don't represent the people ?
Ron Paul is not going to save this country. Even if he did get elected, he would end up being nothing more then a puppet for the elite to play with.
Your last sentence, you could use his entire time in congress as an example, right?
lol, he just votes no to every thing except for lowering taxes. How about the $5, billion in earmarks Ron Paul got in 2008... Isn't Ron Paul against using Earmarks ?
Listen, i'm not trying to change your views on Ron Paul. If you believe in him, good. There is nothing wrong with that. Don't try and push him on the OWS movement, Don't turn a real chance for change into a political football for Ron Paul to play with. And i would say the same thing to any one pushing any politician or political ideology.
Yes, he voted no on the Patriot Act, the bailouts, TARP, Obamacare - I can't say the same thing about any politician in either party.
His reason for earmarks is that he says government taxes his voters the same as anyone else's voters, so as long everyone else's voters get earmarks, he should see that his voters get a share too, though he votes to get rid of principles like that at every chance he gets.
I'm not sure how that's logically difficult to grasp.
If a lot of the views are the same as OWS, why not use Dr Paul as a piece of the pie in getting what we all want? Unless you only want a perfect politician, a utopia world, or a complete revolution and rehaul. Seems stupid to waste a perfectly good opportunity to take a step in the right direction. It's exactly this mentality, the unwillingness to take every available little step in a better direction, that we're now up to our necks in shit. How's that working out for you?
So you agree with me ? He is no different then any other broken politician. They all have their excuses.
I guess it is logically difficult to grasp.
He does it for the voters not a special interest group.
Every politician does it for the voters.
I don't care what you believe and i don't want to change your mind. If you believe in Ron Paul, great ! Support him, help him campaign, donate money to him. Do what ever you like... Just don't try to turn the OWS movement into a political football. That's all I'm saying.
On a side note, Be careful of the things you do. The Left, Liberals , Progressives and Unions are more then capable of burying Ron Paul in mountains of Obama propaganda. Do you really think opening the door to political campaigns in the OWS is a wise move ?
Tr289, I find it very hard to believe that you don't make compromises in your own ethical activity when you discover that your hands are tied. If you expect perfection, you will always be disappointed, even in yourself. Ron Paul has the most pristine integrity of anyone else on Capital Hill and it isn't even close.
I am not suggesting that OWS should support any political candidate since I personally would love to see a complete overhaul, but if that doesn't happen, Ron Paul is the only viable candidate in my book.
OK, and your point is ?
My point is that your comment about Ron Paul's earmarks is highly unconvincing as evidence that he can be bought. Since this is your chief complaint with Ron Paul, I addressed it.
You should go back and read the comments again since you obviously only picked out the parts you wanted to hear or read.
I have re-read them and this is the only piece of evidence you have offered. The rest is the ideological perspective you bring with you every time you look at him.
And you are still only picking out the parts of my comments you want to hear or read. I will make it easy for you.
"I don't care what you believe and i don't want to change your mind. If you believe in Ron Paul, great ! Support him, help him campaign, donate money to him. Do what ever you like... Just don't try to turn the OWS movement into a political football. That's all I'm saying.
On a side note, Be careful of the things you do. The Left, Liberals , Progressives and Unions are more then capable of burying Ron Paul in mountains of Obama propaganda. Do you really think opening the door to political campaigns in the OWS is a wise move ?"
I agree with this. Commendable statement. I only want to address the issue of the earmarks. If you have no response, then I take you to agree with me that this is a poor piece of evidence against his integrity. That is my only purpose for commenting.
I don't want to address the issue of the earmarks, i don't care about the earmarks and i will probably agree with what ever argument you put foreword pertaining to the earmarks. I know exactly why he did it, he is working in a broken system, what else can he do ?
it was just one small comment in a discussion totally unrelated to Earmarks.
The democrats, media, liberals, unions, etc, can do nothing to Ron Paul, because all of his credibility has come from outside the traditional realm. They can't use anything within the traditional realm to harm him, which is why they're at the last grasp to just pretend he doesn't exist. They have nothing to pull out on him, this is why they (everyone) is doing their best to not address him at all.
At a dentist office today, there was an article called "All the candidates pork" in TIME magazine. Featuring Michelle Bachmann, Mitt Romney, Rick Perry and..........John Huntsman! Frontrunner John Huntsman! BMOC John Huntsman! They're just trying to pretend Ron Paul doesn't exist because there is no smear campaign. They've got nothing on him!
that is fine, thank you for giving him a shot.
agreed, another 4 years of obama would be much better
Are you being sarcastic or just trying to put words in my mouth ?
no i am serious. the stimulus was a success, i am sure that the new jobs bill will turn things around. we just have to wait a little while longer.
If you were being serious... Another 4 years of any politician in our corrupt and broken system would be disastrous. But that's just my opinion.
fair enough. maybe we should give hilary a chance.
LOL you have to be joking....
Not joking at aill.
I mean, no one in their right mind will vote for any other republican candidate and he doesn't want to vote for Ron Paul. Who else would he be voting for?
oh ok , yea ron paul is really the only option, but lets be honnest, Obama is a filthy liar. as unfortunate as it is to say, im voting for ANYONE exept obama. hes proven to be a liar, and hes the only one who has had an oppertunity to show that so, fuck him
I've never understood why there isn't a big campaign to write him in. Forgo the nomination altogether, and just write him (or anyone else, really) in. The whole primary thing is a sham. If there's a quality candidate, couldn't we get 51% of voters to write a name on a piece of paper??
Libertarians, Tea partiers, and Ron Paul supporters have been protesting for years about the same things the OWS is now addressing. members of OWS would do well to consider what he says and disregard what they have heard about him through the grape vine.
tr289 Are you in favor of the status quo with the Fed and IRS then?
He listens more than he talks, but his actions and effect are decidedly better.
He's got my vote. End the Fed and IRS would certainly start to turn things around!@
I know Occupy is not a political group, but me personally, I will be voting for the first time in 10 years for Ron Paul!
You are completely correct that OWS is non-partisan and I fully support that and I should have qualified my post with that. However, he offers solutions that members of OWS should hear regardless of who they vote fore next year.
he also offers utterly insane non solutions, like global warming denialism.
Over and over again, no, solar increase is a real contributing factor which contributes to less than a billionth of the problem.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/index.noshade.html http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/4_stages_denial.php http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_change_skeptics http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/C25/ http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2009/02/global-warming-denial.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/index/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/a-siegel/bipartisan-global-warming_b_134812.html http://www.exxposeexxon.com/facts/ExxonSecretsAnalysis.pdf http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/19/global-warming-denial-has-its-benefits/ http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/09/08/cartoon-guide-to-global-warming-denial/ http://www.countercurrents.org/cc-henderson190806.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=522784499045867811 http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/fight-global-warming-denial-george-will.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/a-troubling-trend-in-glob_b_158288.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJAbATJCugs&feature=related
as I said before, please just listen to him speak now, give him a chance, i beg of you, I am humbling myself, on my knees, open your ears and try to hold judgement until he is done speaking.
i have listened to him speak. i know all about him. hes my favorite republican. and hes fucking insane, a global warming denialist, he pro banks, hes pro capitalism, hes etc. a wingnut. i agree with ending the fed and etc. but what can be agreed with is not as important as what can't. He is a fooking lunatic. Period. end of discussion. Quit advertising for him here, because its only going to get worse if you people make me get detailed.
Over and over again, no, solar increase is a real contributing factor which contributes to less than a billionth of the problem.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/index.noshade.html http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/4_stages_denial.php http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_change_skeptics http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/C25/ http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2009/02/global-warming-denial.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/index/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/a-siegel/bipartisan-global-warming_b_134812.html http://www.exxposeexxon.com/facts/ExxonSecretsAnalysis.pdf http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/19/global-warming-denial-has-its-benefits/ http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/09/08/cartoon-guide-to-global-warming-denial/ http://www.countercurrents.org/cc-henderson190806.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=522784499045867811 http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/fight-global-warming-denial-george-will.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/a-troubling-trend-in-glob_b_158288.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJAbATJCugs&feature=related
Read this, not that you will.... http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-and-occupy-the-fed-are-two-sides-of-the-same-coin.html
read that. whats your point? i'm outside of the left/right continuum.
i think occupy the fed is a great idea. i agree with ending the fed. i don't agree with wingnuts who can't be bothered to tell the difference between ideology and science being the president of the USA or people supporting that wingnut using OWS to advertise.
Gawd, you disappoint me. and i thought you were open-minded.
i am open minded. this is the kind of thing that open minded people should put their foot down over.
i'm sorry, but global warming is a fraud designed to transfer wealth on a large scale from the western nations to the east. it is also designed to rob regular folks of their liberties.
i don't deny that we should not be dependent on oil, and that we are devastating our natural resources and polluting the environment. but global warming is a total crock. the guys who published the 'hockey stick' data were falsifying their numbers. you can even read their emails. furthermore, the global warming crowd has gone out of their way to hide the medieval warming period, because it makes their premise weak (which it is).
and this is why ron paul is dangerous. Global warming is not a fraud. Did you study climatology? i did. Your ignorant, and BSing anti science and anti intellectual ideology which exxon oil invented. Thats pro corporation and anti human and people will die because of it and millions have already died due to global warming. Global warming is a science fact. You saying it is a crock is laughable, thats exactly the problem. you don't know. you THINK so, but your just repeating busllhit and lies which people like ron paul told you. As far as the hockey stick problem goes, that again is absolutely solid, wether or not some numbers were ever fasified. I have generated a long list of links. Do you have even one link? The global warming crowd? the medeival warming period has nothing to do with anything, it doesn't make any premise weak and it has nothing to do with global warming which we are seeing. It was orders of magnitude smaller of a bump than we are seeing and probably had a lot t od owith the assorted fires they were setting.
Such details prove you are ignorant and have not read the links i provided. they prove you are an ideologue, fighting ignorant and programmed by exxon, against humanities survival.
This is exactly why ron paul is a clear and present danger to society- people like you who believe their lies and twisted mechanations.
Denying factual science to prop up right wing ideology is sick and evil. doing so when its just a means to the end of propping up exxon oil is double evil and repeating exxon oil propaganda is triple evil.
Get lucid. Either you are against evil corporate power and thus against global warming denial, or you are a pwn for the corporate oligarchy and a stooge for its agenda.
people like me. i'm ignorant. i know you think you're some expert in every single field, but i hold three science degrees - the first of which is in natural resources from the university of michigan, and i'm not some country bumpkin. i'm also not right wing, as you suggest.
you're the one who is ignorant, and rude as well.
good luck convincing others of your argument when you use insult as persuasion.
it is factually ignorant to deny global warming. it has long since gone into overtime. anybody who denies global warming deserves to be called a moron. stop being a moron, and join the real world and factual science.
if you think thats rude, for 40 years global warming has been a science fact and 40 years ago the science solution was electic cars and geothermal power. only stupid evil BS and lies and arguments from ignorance have prevented us from making the necessary transitions and changes. Anyone who denies global warming is a corporate oligarchy tool . a dupe, and a moron. the end. You have a choice, to stop . Take it. Millions of people have already died because of global warming denial. You are in essence a party to those murders every time you deny the truth- this is no different really than holocaust denial- and worse- because global warming threatens to extinct the human species as a whole.
Grow up and wake up. I do not stand any more and be kind and gentle and diplomatic over this it is long past time for that.
I normally like what you say, but Ron Paul is the most anti-bank candidate there is.
and anti-war and anti-fed.
[Deleted]
Why vote for Ron Paul? He voted to keep paying oil companies $41 BILLION of our tax dollars every year.
Budget hawks: Does US need to give gas and oil companies $41 billion a year? - http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0309/Budget-hawks-Does-US-need-to-give-gas-and-oil-companies-41-billion-a-year/%28page%29/2
In spite of all their talk, both Ron Paul and Rand Paul voted TO KEEP oil subsidies.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll313.xml
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00072
House Subsidies Supporters Receive Over $1.2 Million from Big Oil in First Six Months of 2011 - http://campaignmoney.org/press-room/2011/07/21/house-subsidies-supporters-receive-over-12-million
So apparently free markets are such a bad idea that even their most ardent "supporters" vote against their existence.
By the way, these are the companies they're giving our tax dollars to:
Exxon's profit soars 69 percent, tops Street - http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/28/us-exxonmobil-idUSTRE73R35O20110428
Why do we need to be paying taxes to give the money to a company that's taking home $1,369 PER SECOND in profits?
Why is Ron Paul and Rand Paul taking money away from all of us and giving it to a company that's taking home $1,369 PER SECOND in profits?
People earning minimum wage don't take home anywhere near that much in a month.
Somebody please explain why the hell I'd support a politician that's robbing the American people and giving it to a corporation like that.
good questions, this is all new to me. Unfortunately, I'd have to hear him address this before I make up my mind and I'd hope everyone else would give him a chance too. But I can't blame you if you can't look past it.
The Occupy movement does not endorse Ron Paul and it will not endorse Ron Paul please take your proselytizing elsewhere! How long is it going to take you to realize your wasting everyone's time!
I could get behind the first thing you said, I know OWS is not a political movement and I respect that. That said, the things he says, and the conversation in the debate as a whole, do shed light on the same things that OWS addresses. I do not believe it to be a waste of time to educate myself and the rest of the community on the topics and all of the varied views. After all, if it does indeed mean to represent the 99% then shouldn't it at least hear out what some of those people are saying?
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/11/01/ron-paul-panderer-to-the-paranoid/
http://www.openleft.com/diary/21438/golden-oldie-ron-paul-equates-former-militia-wingnut-tax-evaders-with-martin-luther-king
http://polizeros.com/2007/07/16/ron-paul-is-a-right-wing-nut-case/
Ron Paul is a right-wing nut case By Bob Morris, on Jul 16, 2007, 12:15 am
Ron Paul has been getting a lot of attention lately in his presidential run. Even lefties who ought to know better think he might be some kind of straight-talking anti-war populist with real ideas for change.
Nonsense. He’s a sharply right-wing libertarian who, like most libertarians, is deeply tortured by the thought that someone, somewhere might gain benefit from his tax dollars. He hates taxes and also suffers from the hard right-wing delusion that abolishing the Federal Reserve will, with a wave of the pixie dust wand, make everything wonderful again.
He opposes regional agreements the US might a signatory to. This is not because GATT, for example, is noxious and exploitative but because it, gasp, allows other countries to have a say in what America does. In other words, he believes in American Exceptionalism and is also isolationist, a pretzel of logic that only those on the fringe right try to negotiate.
As for immigration, he wants to send all undocumented workers back home, stop birthplace citizenship, eliminate hospital care for the undocumented – but somehow neglects to mention enforcing the law against employers who hire them. That the US economy would be in a shambles if all of Them were sent home does not occur to him, but then reality seldom dents the skulls of ideologues.
His stand on the war is conspicuous by saying absolutely nothing about what should be done in Iraq. Not one word.
He wants to remove Roe vs. Wade. “I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life.”
He’s also heavily allied with and supported by neo-confederate forces, is rabidly anti-gay, and has a 100% rating from the Christian Coalition.
Don’t be fooled by the low-key approach, he’s further to the right than either Bush or Cheney.
http://www.tnr.com/article/feast-the-wingnuts
http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&dt=1&as=2160
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/09/wingnuts-unite-ron-paul-joins-michelle-bachmann-weirdest-town-hall-ever
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/211823/20110911/ron-paul-racism-anti-semitism-republican.htm
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/global-warming/
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-06-04/statement-on-global-warming-petition-signed-by-31478-scientists/
you remember the spam thing, right?
yeah. you remember the ron paul is a clear and present danger to our civilization thing, right?
i remember one person said that like 5 times which makes it spam
Is RP a member of the banking committee elected to regulate, investigate and punish the perpetrator? Hum, I wonder happen?
yes, he never gets his way, however. Please listen to him speak, he hardly supports those corporations.
No thanks I’m neither a republican nor a libertarian.
how will you know until you try it.
If you disregard him without listening, how can you consider yourself educated on the matters? You asked a question, I answered it, I hope I helped.
Believe me I know, I do have a general concept of most ideologies especially libertarianism.Thank you for replying.
A news anchor has no business interrupting a candidate for President. Somebody turn off that lady's microphone when Romney is talking.
I can't say I agree with you.
People may have turned in to listen to Paul, or Cain, or Perry, or Romney, etc, etc. They did not tune in to listen to a news anchor.
understandable, but her role is not to anchor the news here, it is to moderate
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/11/01/ron-paul-panderer-to-the-paranoid/
http://www.openleft.com/diary/21438/golden-oldie-ron-paul-equates-former-militia-wingnut-tax-evaders-with-martin-luther-king
http://polizeros.com/2007/07/16/ron-paul-is-a-right-wing-nut-case/
Ron Paul is a right-wing nut case By Bob Morris, on Jul 16, 2007, 12:15 am
Ron Paul has been getting a lot of attention lately in his presidential run. Even lefties who ought to know better think he might be some kind of straight-talking anti-war populist with real ideas for change.
Nonsense. He’s a sharply right-wing libertarian who, like most libertarians, is deeply tortured by the thought that someone, somewhere might gain benefit from his tax dollars. He hates taxes and also suffers from the hard right-wing delusion that abolishing the Federal Reserve will, with a wave of the pixie dust wand, make everything wonderful again.
He opposes regional agreements the US might a signatory to. This is not because GATT, for example, is noxious and exploitative but because it, gasp, allows other countries to have a say in what America does. In other words, he believes in American Exceptionalism and is also isolationist, a pretzel of logic that only those on the fringe right try to negotiate.
As for immigration, he wants to send all undocumented workers back home, stop birthplace citizenship, eliminate hospital care for the undocumented – but somehow neglects to mention enforcing the law against employers who hire them. That the US economy would be in a shambles if all of Them were sent home does not occur to him, but then reality seldom dents the skulls of ideologues.
His stand on the war is conspicuous by saying absolutely nothing about what should be done in Iraq. Not one word.
He wants to remove Roe vs. Wade. “I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life.”
He’s also heavily allied with and supported by neo-confederate forces, is rabidly anti-gay, and has a 100% rating from the Christian Coalition.
Don’t be fooled by the low-key approach, he’s further to the right than either Bush or Cheney.
http://www.tnr.com/article/feast-the-wingnuts
http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&dt=1&as=2160
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/09/wingnuts-unite-ron-paul-joins-michelle-bachmann-weirdest-town-hall-ever
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/211823/20110911/ron-paul-racism-anti-semitism-republican.htm
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/global-warming/
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-06-04/statement-on-global-warming-petition-signed-by-31478-scientists/
spammer
mirror mirror on the wall.. whos the spammer of us all?
1 post does not a spammer make
FFS..
Please, if you do plan to vote Republican, do vote for Congressman Paul.
Gary johnson garyjohnson2012.com
Sure, why not? I used to live under him and besides not doing anything to solve some major environmental problems, he didn't make anything worse... Please, if you do plan to vote Republican, do vote for Congressman Paul or Governor Johnson.
See http://www.TheMultitude.org for a new, more organized OWS forum.
Register, post, and help get things rolling.
Let's start posting in a place where stuff won't be lost in chaos 5 minutes later.
Ron Paul 2012 all the way.
ain't happening. ron paul is a wingnut and 51 percent of the population understands this.
Over and over again, no, solar increase is a real contributing factor which contributes to less than a billionth of the problem.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/index.noshade.html http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/4_stages_denial.php http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_change_skeptics http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/C25/ http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2009/02/global-warming-denial.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/index/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/a-siegel/bipartisan-global-warming_b_134812.html http://www.exxposeexxon.com/facts/ExxonSecretsAnalysis.pdf http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/19/global-warming-denial-has-its-benefits/ http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/09/08/cartoon-guide-to-global-warming-denial/ http://www.countercurrents.org/cc-henderson190806.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=522784499045867811 http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/fight-global-warming-denial-george-will.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/a-troubling-trend-in-glob_b_158288.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJAbATJCugs&feature=related
this is the definition of trolling you know. Please stop spamming, I could give you links in counter if I wanted to go through the trouble. You made your point, no let other people talk.
the definition of trolling is using OWS to promote ron paul.
I disagree, you are certainly spamming here.
seems fair game, since you started with the spamming first. Spam wars. You spam ron paul i spam why ron paul is a wingnut. Get used to it. its always going to be like that.
I posted once, that is hardly spamming. This is more relevant than you may want to believe. The 99% contains many who support these people speaking here.
its not relevant, because ron paul is part of the problem, just a distraction, and not ever going to be president. it is spamming because it is off topic.
Promoting a candidate isn't trolling just because you don't agree with the recommendation. Trolling is deliberately provoking with the intention to disrupt. This is just someone you happen to disagree with.
no, its trolling, because OWS is NOT the place to promote a candidate unless that candidate is a third party and has bothered to actually learn the truth about the nature of reality instead of operating from a stupid and evil ideology.
People trying to drag OWS into partisan support of some candidate- i stand up against obama, i stand up against ron paul. I stand up against ANY group trying to suck OWS into their Agenda.
thats what right, and thats what i am going to do.
You don't get to decide what OWS is for, or what's right -- and what you don't think is right also isn't trolling. If someone thinks supporting a particular candidate would help its goals, they're free to say so.
and i am free to point out that OWS is thus being USED and subverted by the far right. Just as i stand up against it being used or subverted by the left. or by capitalists. or socialists. or etc.
You can point it out, sure. But don't spam and disrupt. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone spammed your posts just because they've decided they disagree with you to such a degree that you must be disrupted.
i have been patient with ron paul spammers. this is the twentieth thread or so. I was very reserved about it. but the ron paul folks keep on keeping on. its time for the foot of reason and truth to come down, and that means it time for my foot to come down. I let this slide and slide and slide. And ron paulers just keep taking advantage and using this space as ron paul ad space. it ends now.
Ron Paul supporters aren't spammers just because you don't think a major party-affiliated candidate is the answer. You simply have an opinion -- one which you believe to be superior to others'.
You use spamming as a tactic to deride the opinions you dislike. You are a spammer. You are a troll.
no, i don't have an opinion. I managed to excise that little problem. I have formal logic and science and i don't do opinion. There is no comparison. I am certainly spamming this thread. this thread is certainly spamming this forum. turn about is fair play. I spent twenty threads about the same energy dealing with obama supporters and etc. It would be two faced of me to not put up the same resistance in both cases.
Ron paul is not just a wingnut and that is not just an opinion. it is a fact. Ron paul is a clear and present danger to this civilization, and i have a responsibility to stand up for what is TRUE outside of mere opinion.
You seem to be unaware of the definition of the word "opinion".
no, i am quite aware of the difference between subjective and objective reality. the idea that ron paul is a good idea for this country is a subjective opinion. the fact that he is a wingnut who denies science in favor of right wing ideology is a FACT.
The sky is blue = fact. Ron Paul is male = fact. I am typing this comment using a keyboard = fact.
Your assessment of a person = opinion. Your belief that he's bad for the movement = opinion. My belief that right-wing conservatives taut traditional family values in order to limit the rights of others = opinion.
My assessment that anyone who believes their opinions to be fact are the most dangerously self-unaware and discombobulated individuals we all must watch out for = opinion.
my assessment is not opinion. I never said he was bad for the movement, in fact i think hes one of the movements fathers. There is a difference between supporting him in that capacity and supporting a run for president.
fact and opinion is the purvue of formal logic, something which i have studied. Your opinion that i'm only calling an opinion fact is amusing, but back to the actual logic and facts- i have stated the facts and am in the position to know the difference between fact and opinion because of all the facts i have accumulated.
Seriously i suggest you drop this, because i can go lots deeper and show that everything here is delusional cognitive dissonance and nonsense. Would you like me to unpack formal conversational logic on you? I can do that.
Formal conversational Logic https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_197961226914352&ap=1
Just because one uses logic to back up an argument doesn't make it fact. You can accumulate all the information you want and use them to form an excellent argument, but that won't make it any less of an opinion.
what is fact and what is opinion can be established via logical process. i have communicated facts. would you like me to go nuclear and put this whole thread into formal conversational logic analysis?
When all the facts are known for certain, sometimes other things can be deduced, but those are rarely if ever considered facts themselves. That's why relativity and evolution are still just theories, not facts.
You think only things you agree with are worth talking about?
No, i am all for talking about things i don't agree about assuming that such things are based in something rational. And not spamming this forum with some right wing promotional.
then you have failed, sorry, but you can try try again.
please quit using ows to promote your political agenda. ron paul is a wingnut when hes not being otherwise brilliant.
Over and over again, no, solar increase is a real contributing factor which contributes to less than a billionth of the problem.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/index.noshade.html http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/4_stages_denial.php http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_change_skeptics http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/C25/ http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2009/02/global-warming-denial.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/index/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/a-siegel/bipartisan-global-warming_b_134812.html http://www.exxposeexxon.com/facts/ExxonSecretsAnalysis.pdf http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/19/global-warming-denial-has-its-benefits/ http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/09/08/cartoon-guide-to-global-warming-denial/ http://www.countercurrents.org/cc-henderson190806.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=522784499045867811 http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/fight-global-warming-denial-george-will.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/a-troubling-trend-in-glob_b_158288.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJAbATJCugs&feature=related
I apologize but please give him a chance, listen to him speak now, and then reconsider. thats all i ask. If you retain the same views, thats fine with me, but everyone should hear the words he says.
i have given him many chances. hes crazy, and i am not interested in putting a crazy man in office.
Over and over again, no, solar increase is a real contributing factor which contributes to less than a billionth of the problem.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/index.noshade.html http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/4_stages_denial.php http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Climate_change_skeptics http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/C25/ http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2009/02/global-warming-denial.html http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/index/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/a-siegel/bipartisan-global-warming_b_134812.html http://www.exxposeexxon.com/facts/ExxonSecretsAnalysis.pdf http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/19/global-warming-denial-has-its-benefits/ http://bravenewclimate.com/2008/09/08/cartoon-guide-to-global-warming-denial/ http://www.countercurrents.org/cc-henderson190806.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=522784499045867811 http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/fight-global-warming-denial-george-will.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/a-troubling-trend-in-glob_b_158288.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T4UF_Rmlio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJAbATJCugs&feature=related
Yo, if we can't use the forum to promote the political agenda of anyone, then you gotta stop with the solar increase stuff, or any other political agenda you want to talk about.
You can have that opinion but then you have to be the first person to live it.
yo. political agendas of republicans are the problem. Including ron paul, whos ideas 50 percent of the time are genius and 50 percent of the time lunatic.
Trying to compare that to ISSUES is a logical fallacy. You people are spamming a candidate promotion. I'm spamming the 101 of why global warming denialism is evil stupid ignorant clueless BS. I'm on an ISSUE. your on a CANDIDATE. Obviously, a whole different class of things and a whole different set of rules apply.
Since candidates deal with political issues, I'm not sure how that's a fallacy. The rubber has to meet the road at some point, so if we're talking about how to apply the issues, it's through candidates. Unless you're proposing theoretical discussion only, or revolution?
I'm not an issue or a candidate. I'm on your hypocrisy.
we need third party candidates. not republicans without the sense to even tell the difference between science facts and right wing corporate propaganda. Ron paul is not going to make it to president and ANY attempt to further subvert OWS on this forum to promote him will be met with absolute overwhelming firepower in the form of truth. deal. you have no argument, what you have is an attempt to conflate issues, ron paul is not up for discussion. ending the fed is. There is a difference, and you trying to make believe there is not and calling me a hypocrit over it is not going to fly.
So explain to me why, ending the fed as an example, if there is an issue that the group agrees on, why wouldn't the group support and encourage candidates that claim to want to bring about the change the group wants to happen?
If we're going to discuss, I would actually like to see an end to political parties, period. No parties.
simple. ron paul also promotes corporate oligarchy memes, such as the denial of global warming. A person is not one issue. A person is the whole set of political platforms they have. Ron pauls OTHER positions are about 50 percent genius and 50 percent stupid evil ignorant lunatic . Supporting him is thus supporting not only the genius, but the stupid evil ignorant lunatic.
Isn't that an improvement on 2 percent genius which followed the previous 1 percent mediocre?
Improvements can either happen gently over time, or roughly all at once. I'm for either, but the problem has been that we haven't really been doing either. Ron Paul isn't the end all, be all, but he seems like he would be a good step in the right direction, also a good step in opening up further parties (since I think he would wreck a lot of the republican party).
peel back the cover. ron paul has good ideas in positive directions on some issues and insane and civilization destructive ideas in others.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/11/01/ron-paul-panderer-to-the-paranoid/
http://www.openleft.com/diary/21438/golden-oldie-ron-paul-equates-former-militia-wingnut-tax-evaders-with-martin-luther-king
http://polizeros.com/2007/07/16/ron-paul-is-a-right-wing-nut-case/
Ron Paul is a right-wing nut case By Bob Morris, on Jul 16, 2007, 12:15 am
Ron Paul has been getting a lot of attention lately in his presidential run. Even lefties who ought to know better think he might be some kind of straight-talking anti-war populist with real ideas for change.
Nonsense. He’s a sharply right-wing libertarian who, like most libertarians, is deeply tortured by the thought that someone, somewhere might gain benefit from his tax dollars. He hates taxes and also suffers from the hard right-wing delusion that abolishing the Federal Reserve will, with a wave of the pixie dust wand, make everything wonderful again.
He opposes regional agreements the US might a signatory to. This is not because GATT, for example, is noxious and exploitative but because it, gasp, allows other countries to have a say in what America does. In other words, he believes in American Exceptionalism and is also isolationist, a pretzel of logic that only those on the fringe right try to negotiate.
As for immigration, he wants to send all undocumented workers back home, stop birthplace citizenship, eliminate hospital care for the undocumented – but somehow neglects to mention enforcing the law against employers who hire them. That the US economy would be in a shambles if all of Them were sent home does not occur to him, but then reality seldom dents the skulls of ideologues.
His stand on the war is conspicuous by saying absolutely nothing about what should be done in Iraq. Not one word.
He wants to remove Roe vs. Wade. “I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life.”
He’s also heavily allied with and supported by neo-confederate forces, is rabidly anti-gay, and has a 100% rating from the Christian Coalition.
Don’t be fooled by the low-key approach, he’s further to the right than either Bush or Cheney.
http://www.tnr.com/article/feast-the-wingnuts
http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&dt=1&as=2160
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/09/wingnuts-unite-ron-paul-joins-michelle-bachmann-weirdest-town-hall-ever
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/211823/20110911/ron-paul-racism-anti-semitism-republican.htm
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/global-warming/
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-06-04/statement-on-global-warming-petition-signed-by-31478-scientists/
I was open to reading more until "Not one word on iraq". He's said multiple times that he would bring the troops home ASAP. End it all immediately.
I don't care for most of the vid, but it's got some RP quotes around the 3 minutes mark on the subject http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc2gst2Nc5E
Blatant misinformation like that just ruins credibility.
you are right, thats an older site. He has since courageously stepped forward to oppose the wars.
i will remove that from the quote. thank you. my bad.