Forum Post: Iceland Forgives Mortgage Debt for the Population. Putting Bankers and Politicians on "Bench of Accused"
Posted 12 years ago on April 13, 2012, 12:14 p.m. EST by Reneye
(118)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Iceland Forgives Mortgage Debt for the Population. Putting Bankers and Politicians on "Bench of Accused"
http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.ca/2012/04/iceland-forgives-mortgage-debt-for.html
This is awesome. It shows when the people DO STAND UP they have more power and win against the corrupt bankers and politicians of a country. Iceland is forgiving and erasing the mortgage debt of the population. They are putting the bankers and politicians on the "Bench of the Accused." Which means I assume they are putting them on trial for corruption.
Now the rest of people of the world need to start doing the same thing. We all need to stand up and against all the corruption and fraud of the banks and politicians that are puppets of the banks and corporations.
This shows that putting people first is not really as hard to do as the wealthy and corporations would like us to think. In fact, it is pretty simple.
This is huge, I'll be smiling all day after hearing this (I found other stories on this as well). Nothing like this would have happened without the occupy movement ... hopefully, this is just the beginning :)
In order to facilitate further smiling :
"Iceland's President Explains Why The World Needs To Rethink Its Addiction To Finance" ----- '“If you want your economy to excel in the 21st century ... a big banking sector, even a very successful banking sector, is bad news. You could even argue that the bigger the banking sector is, the worse the news is for your economy... Europe is and should be more about democracy than about financial markets. Based with this choice, it was in the end, clear that I had to choose democracy.” (from Business Insider) by Adam Taylor : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31089.htm .
ipsa scientia potestas est ...
Iceland is awesome ... and this guy really has his shit together. He's exactly right, Wall Street's success has come at the expense of the rest of our country (and economy). What's worse, it ultimately won't even be sustainable for the bankers.
The "BA$TARD BANK$TER $CUM" are all 'jam today' and 'shit tomorrow' !!!
I Totally Fuckin' H8 These Vampiric Parasites !!
I forego future karma to curse 'em !
absit omen ...
So why doesn't the President order the Dept. of Justice to work out prosecution of Wall St?
wow
Iceland's President Explains Why The World Needs To Rethink Its Addiction To Finance Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-13/news/31335359_1_icelandic-financial-crisis-financial-challenge/2#ixzz1s3YftrHx Quotes from it: If you sent a signal to the bankers that you can be as irresponsible and daring as you want to be, and if you are lucky, you become very rich, but if you fail, other people will pay. I don’t think that is a wise journey to enter . . . As everybody knows now, we did not pump public money into the failed banks. We treated them like private companies that went bankrupt, and we let them fail. Whereas in many other countries, the prevailing orthodoxy is you pump public money into banks and you make taxpayers responsible for the banks in the long run, and somehow treat the banks as if they are holier institutions in the economy ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] 1 points by jk1234 (226) 27 minutes ago Former Iceland Leader Tried Over Financial Crisis of 2008: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/world/europe/geir-haarde-former-iceland-leader-goes-on-trial-for-role-in-financial-crisis.html?_r=1 In the US we gave immunity to those who committed fraud in exchange for a small settlement. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] 1 points by Gillian (801) 14 minutes ago That's right..that's why we are America- the land of the free crooks and their brave victims. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
The whole of the State of Florida is going through real estate revaluation. All of it downward, similar to the mortgage pool of Iceland.
But in Florida there is nothing being done to protect either homeowners or the banks. Banks end up holding almost-crazy numbers of residences -- which then fall in value to derelict-property loss levels.
Iceland = rational. Florida = not rational.
Still not seeing this in our mainstream media yet after 2 days its been on the net. Wonder if they're going to report on this ?
Why isn't this front page news??? Reminds me of the early days of Occupy.
Looks like we could learn alot from Iceland. Damn shame it won't happen here with wall streets sock puppet in office and the rest of the bought and paid for corporate whores in congress.
It is awesome. Thanks, Reneye. I would have missed this for about a week or month.
Sounds too good to be true. Can anyone back up the story?
Seriously dude, you should give that Googly Thingy a spin ... look what I found for you when I did :
"Brilliant! Iceland forgives mortgage debt of its population" : http://www.sott.net/articles/show/244018-Iceland-forgives-mortgage-debt-of-its-population ,
"Icelandic Anger Brings Debt Forgiveness in Best Recovery Story" : http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-20/icelandic-anger-brings-record-debt-relief-in-best-crisis-recovery-story.html ,
"US Housing regulator argues for debt forgiveness" : http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/289c1214-8318-11e1-929f-00144feab49a.html#axzz1ryBVdmIv &
"Mortgage debt relief boosts recovery, says IMF report" : http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mortgage-debt-relief-boosts-recovery-says-imf-report-3076729.html .
fiat justitia ruat caelum ...
The title of this post should be "Iceland Partially Forgives Mortgage Debt for the Population". The portion above 110% of the value of the house is forgiven, not the entire mortgage. If you had a house now worth $200,000, the debt greater that $220,000 would be forgiven. If the mortgage was $300,000, $80,000 would be forgiven.
Good post, Leynna. Keep up the good work.
Thanks gnomunny! I'm no shadz....but I have my moments ;)
Yes you do. You're no shadz, but then who is? Is shadz even shadz? ;-)
Seriously, he rocks.
Alas, pedestals are only good for falling off I fear (lol) and as for whoever I may be - well whatever the answer is or isn't - "I'm Denying It" !!! {Further this phrase is my recommended answer to Any And All questions to which one one may not wish to answer - especially to 'TPTB' and consider - it can never be a lie !! Think about it !}
Also in the interests of furthering the "Global Insurrection Against Banker Occupation", here's a tight tune inspired by Max Keiser ( http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/ and http://maxkeiser.com/ ) :
'commune bonnum' est 'summum bonnum' ...
"Community bong-ing is good bong-ing."
Sorry, must be the lack of sleep. ;-)
Aye, maybe - but I could go with that !!! Consider that it could be dangerous if you and I were to ever hook up !! What with 'beer 'n' bongs' 'n' all ! verum ex absurdo ~{;-)
Not dangerous for you and me of course. But those girlies . . .
They like dangerous. (-;
True & LOL !!! You sir, sound like a suitably dangerous fellow fellah !! Watch out ladies ! pax et lux.
Ditto, my friend. Ditto.
Awesome! That is great news!
We all need to take serious lessons from the plucky Icelanders and spread the news, as there is nearly an 'International Media-Blackout' with regard to their excellent example and Strong Democracy .
Thus, please see :
a) "Iceland Proves Ireland Did `Wrong Things' Sacrificing Taxpayers", by Yalman Onaran : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27399.htm ,
b) "Iceland Declares Independence from International Banks", by Bill Wilson : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28391.htm#idc-cover ,
c) "Iceland's On-going Revolution", by Deena Stryker : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28934.htm ,
d) "Key Lesson from Iceland Crisis is 'Let Banks Fail'", by Haukur Holm : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29653.htm &
e) "Lessons From Iceland : The People Can Have The Power ; As early progress in Iceland shows since the banking collapse, the 21st century will be the century of the common people, of us.", by Birgitta Jónsdóttir : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29722.htm .
Also please see : http://occupywallst.org/forum/just-say-no-to-corporate-greed-the-case-of-iceland/ and http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-contrast-between-iceland-and-ireland-some-thou/ .
fiat lux ...
Go Iceland.
Thanks, I will read this when I get a chance. Looks very interesting!
@ 'forbetter' : You are most welcome and please see the links below on this thread. Further, purely on the Extremely Important Matter Of Iceland and it's people's excellent self-defence, please also see : http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=iceland ~{:-)
pax et lux ...
I will check that out as well. Thanks alot for highlighting it Shadz. If the Icelandic people can do it, then certainly Americans can too, you are the most innovative nation in the world.
From a Canadian Pakistani.
I'm in the UK bro' ... but we've got to support and help our American Brothers and Sisters .. because being afraid of them is so negative and getting us nowhere.
Thus and in memory of my beloved Dad (Requiscat In Pace) who passed away from "this veil of tears" and left "this mortal coil" on April 11th 2011 - I append the following 5 links :
a) http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/ ,
b) http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php
c) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ ,
d) http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/category/economics/ ,
e) "Inside Job" : http://documentarystorm.com/inside-job/ .
Shalom ; Salam ; Pax ; Shanti ...
sorry for your loss, may your farther rest in peace.
Yes, this is what we need to do. Now HOW DO WE DO IT?
The bloodhound of information is at it again, I see ! Thanks shadz!
LOL !!! Grrrowl !! Bark ! + A Totally Ballsy track and some sage advise from everyone's favourite Icelandic Berzerker : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHeX6yg95xU&feature !!!
per ardua ad astra ...
I was looking for info on MKultra and happened upon a wonderful website you may like, if you don't already know of it that is. Its similar to 'informationclearinghouse'.....
http://www.wanttoknow.info/
Happy sluething !!
Re. Iceland, some video evidence in further support of your 'forum-post' :
Thanx also for your interesting link - I clicked on it & my browser indicated that it's in my favourites somewhere - but I know not where, lol - perhaps I'll get to organising them now !
minima maxima sunt ...
Thank you for these links. I will check them out in a bit.
LOL... you fell for that? This is false news Check this out http://wizbangblog.com/2012/04/14/did-iceland-forgive-the-majority-of-its-citizens-mortgage-debt/
If this news was true, wouldn't say the NYTimes cover it?
The title of this post should be "Iceland Partially Forgives Mortgage Debt for the Population". The portion above 110% of the value of the house is forgiven, not the entire mortgage. If you had a house now worth $200,000, the debt greater that $220,000 would be forgiven. If the mortgage was $300,000, $80,000 would be forgiven.
[Removed]
Now there is a sign that sanity has not died off completely.
Occupy of the world keep-on keepin-on. The pressure of uniting in common cause is working.
this news is untrue http://wizbangblog.com/2012/04/14/did-iceland-forgive-the-majority-of-its-citizens-mortgage-debt/
A quick spin with google gets the same result. A hoax. Here's the IMF report on what happens in Iceland:
-- In the case of Iceland the situation was more difficult, due in part to the much bigger proportion of the population that was affected, and to the wide presence of foreign currency mortgages.
-- The government and the newly constructed Icelandic banks developed a template to be used in case by case restructuring discussions between borrowers and lenders. The templates facilitated substantial debt write-downs designed to align secured debt with the supporting collateral (i.e bring the loan into line with the value of the house) and align debt service with the ability to repay.
-- The IMF found that such case by case negotiations safeguard property rights and reduce moral hazard, but they take time. As of January of this year, only 35% of the case by case restructuring applications had been processed. To speed things up, Iceland has introduced a debt forgiveness plan which writes down deeply underwater mortgages to 110% of the households’ pledgeable assets.
[ http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0410/imf-says-targeted-debt-reduction-policies-can-work.html ]
This is a very awkward idea. Lets play it to a sensible ending. 2 houses, exactly the same as in so many communities, worth $200000. Owner B is current with his mortgage, in fact has it almost paid off. Owner B is extremely leveraged, and owes more than the house is worth. Owner B finds someone to appraise his house at $125000. Now owner A's house has just lost value and Owner A is current. Owner A is going to be furious.
Pequod has no idea of the economics involved in mortgage pool problems.
-- No awareness of the Fallacy of Composition as seen with transaction-versus-pool valuation tools.
-- Failure to differentiate macroeconomics from microeconomics generally.
How a hypothetical "Owner A" "feels" is no way to evaluate what are essentially monetary policy support tools.
What you are getting now is vast destruction of value in the housing market. Not simple deflation to pre-bubble price levels. Actual abandonments, derelictions, and patterns of illegal salvage. Savings at the personal level are being destroyed -- about on a par with what hurricane Katrina did to New Orleans.
The banking system is acting stupidly.
You are much too polite - they are fucking shithouse rat insane!
The sane - public needs to stand-up and save them from themselves.
Which will also serve to help the rest of us to regain health and prosperity.
It is a mighty big job and there will be a lot of pain - but it will only get worse the longer it is put off.
Bad thinking isn't quite "insane." Humanity lived in cities for at least 5,000 years before we started on a systematic approach to inductive logic.
Learning to think is not core curriculum.
Owner A should be furious with the system that artificially inflated his property's worth. The whole of the public should be furious. They should be looking to the system in place to reflect reality and then to also be accountable. Don't blame B for the systems failings, blame the system and go after reparations there.
by the way, their payment would hardly drop, maybe only a couple hundred dollars, at most. Many,many, many homeowners have had their mortgages modified and still fail to make payments. Mortgage modifications have not been effective at all.
Our system for mortgages never, ever works rationally.
We would have to admit that the appraisal systems in the 2000s were fundamentally corrupt in a dozen states.
Owner A is likely OK with things as they are. His house is almost paid off. It has fallen in value but he is almost done. Watching Owner B get a huge break in his mortgage wont make him happy. And Owner B has an incentive to find an appraiser to play ball and drop the value of his home as much as possible and this in turn destroys Owner A's home value.
And who you going to go after? Fannie Mae? Freddie Mac?
Just think all of those corporate entities enjoying the status of people due to citizens united and the Supreme Court.
Do you see why we might really need to push "Supremely" HARD to get charges brought and prosecutions started?
I am not sure how or if Owner A cares about that, given that it is now in Owner Bs interest to have propoerty values drop as much as possible.
I dont see where prosecutions of industry big wigs helps Owner A.
Could help A by forcing a revaluation of all mortgages and appropriate adjustments = repayment to customers who were overcharged. Just like when a utility company has been found to have overcharged - restitution.
So, lets say Owner b gets his house appraised at $125000. His original mortgage was for $200, 000 but now its gets written down to $125000. Then Owner A would get a check for $75000? From whom? Remeber Owner A and B bought the houses from private sellers C and D. who pocketed the $200000. I understand there may be some way to write down a mortgage, but there is no way to get $75000 from sellers C and D. And the mortgage company who decides to write down the $75000 for owner B isnt going to also pay Owner A $75000 cash.
I dont think will work in america and it sounds nice but there are so many more homeowners in america that this idea will hurt as many as it helps.
See the thing you are overlooking (?) is if this is a system wide abuse of practices then it calls for a system wide correction. That is why it is being given a blind eye by authority - they said it themselves - too big to fail. Imagine the work involved in actually correcting this mess. They would like to shove it under a rug rather then address it.
I like to discuss things in very tight specific terms. I like to create examples that I can mull over. I did that in articulating the hypothetical situation above. In my short time here, I have noticed that very few, actually no one, really can articulate and role play precise examples that can be refined and then re-presented and then re defined more. I think it may be the nature of this site. No leadeship or true framework for creating pro forma for action.
I am big with examples. What I see here is a big idea but not concrete way of implementing it. In this case you arentelling me HOW owner A gets paid. WHO has to give him money/
What you are overlooking or failing to consider is the size and the all encompassing nature of the economic meltdown and all of it's contributors. It is a monumental thing. With many contributing factors. All of which need to be addressed. That is what many fail to understand. But more and more are becoming aware of the facts. More and more are beginning to realize the enormity of the problems/issues we face.
Take all of those responsible Chase, BoA, Wells Fargo etc etc the insurer's who failed and bailed...take them all and assess their holdings and make them pay restitution, make them renegotiate in good faith with their customers. Send the guilty to jail. Seize assets like they did with Madoff. This is no different than His ponzey except in size/scale.
And this is where we begin to address legal recourse:
Where are the investigators?
http://act.credoaction.com/r/?r=5536950&id=38378-4904244-kBv2_1x&t=7
Dear Dan,
Back in January, President Obama announced during the State of the Union speech the creation of a new financial crimes task force to investigate the crimes and misdeeds that led to the economic collapse and "hold accountable those who broke the law."
Yet, despite the enormity of the issue, its direct impact on millions of Americans and the widespread nature of crimes and wrongdoing, the new financial crime unit has been allocated a paltry 55 staff members to undertake this enormous task.1
And now we're hearing from insiders in Washington DC, that the full complement of 55 promised investigators — which is already not nearly enough — haven't even been deployed to the task force.
Election year promises aren't nearly enough. President Obama needs to prove his commitment to the financial crimes task force is real and provide the task force with the resources it needs to investigate Wall Street criminals.
Tell President Obama: 55 investigators are not enough. We need 20 times more staffing to launch a real investigation into Wall Street's crimes. Click here to automatically sign the petition.
http://act.credoaction.com/r/?r=5536951&id=38378-4904244-kBv2_1x&t=8
After the much smaller savings and loan scandal of the '80s approximately 1,000 FBI agents and dozens of federal prosecutors were assigned to prosecute related cases2. And 100 FBI agents were tasked with investigating the Enron scandal3, which involved just one company and caused none of the economy-wide damage we've seen since the collapse of the housing bubble.
The 55 investigators promised to the financial crimes task force is not nearly enough. And to find out that President Obama hasn't delivered on those investigators, let alone resourced the effort at the levels appropriate to the biggest financial fraud in U.S. history, is shocking.
President Obama's record on Wall Street accountability is abysmal. But because of enormous grassroots pressure from activists like you and polling that suggests he needs to take on Wall Street as a part of his election campaign, we have a real opportunity to move President Obama to meaningful action on Wall Street accountability. Time, however, is running out.
President Obama's first task force at the Department of Justice did little if anything to prosecute Wall Street for crimes that led to the financial crisis. But because of your activism, he announced a new task force and named progressive champion and New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman one of its five co-chairs.
Now we need to pressure the White House to give that task force the resources it needs to pursue justice. Without sufficient staff to conduct thorough investigations, it's hard to see how this task force could bring indictments quickly or even beforesStatutes of limitations run out.
Tell President Obama: 55 investigators are not enough. We need 20 times more staffing to launch a real investigation into Wall Street's crimes. Click here to automatically sign the petition.
The economic crisis we're in demands a response commensurate with the damage done by Wall Street crooks. But the 55 promised investigators don't even come close to being adequate. If the White House hasn't even followed through on its promise of a paltry 55 investigators, it's clear that massive pushback is needed to get the level of staffing we truly need to bring Wall Street criminals to justice.
Aside from the appointment of Attorney General Schneiderman, none of the other co-chairs of the new task force has done literally anything that achieves our goal of holding banks accountable or prosecuting bankers for criminal activity.
In fact, three of his co-chairs served on the earlier failed Department of Justice task force that the new investigation was created to supersede.
In an election year when we know the Obama reelection campaign wants to frame his race as opposing the candidate of the one percent, President Obama will be particularly sensitive to public perception of whether his efforts to hold Wall Street accountable are meaningful and represent the full force of his office.
Tell President Obama: 55 investigators are not enough. We need 20 times more staffing to launch a real investigation into Wall Street's crimes. Click here to automatically sign the petition.
We want, and our country needs, indictments. The collapse of the housing bubble led directly to the economic crisis we're in. But not one of the Wall Street crooks who drove our economy off a cliff has gone to jail. And without aggressive investigations and prosecution for misconduct, none of them will.
President Obama needs to give the Department of Justice task force the resources required to launch a serious investigation that will bring about real accountability before the statutes of limitations run out for Wall Street's crimes.
It's been months already. We can't waste any more time. We must act now before we lose our opportunity to do anything significant at all.
Tell President Obama: 55 investigators are not enough. We need 20 times more staffing to launch a real investigation into Wall Street's crimes. Click the link below to automatically sign the petition:
http://act.credoaction.com/r/?r=5536951&id=38378-4904244-kBv2_1x&t=11
Thank you for standing up for Wall Street accountability.
Becky Bond, Political Director CREDO Action from Working Assets
http://act.credoaction.com/r/?r=11&id=38378-4904244-kBv2_1x&t=12
http://act.credoaction.com/r/?r=5536954&id=38378-4904244-kBv2_1x&t=13
http://act.credoaction.com/r/?r=5536955&id=38378-4904244-kBv2_1x&t=14
http://act.credoaction.com/r/?r=5536956&id=38378-4904244-kBv2_1x&t=15
[Removed]