Forum Post: I want to start a kumbaya hippie circle with the right wing guests here today
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 1:31 p.m. EST by powertothepeople
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but should I do it?
If I start a discussion about how badly I hate "Obamacare" - we might find some common ground.
just sayin'
Maybe it's a bad idea, though.
Lets start here: An executive branch that maneuvered its congressional allies into approving legislation without debate, and the end result was that they got control of the healthcare for an entire nation. The only evidence we have so far about the judgement skill of that executive branch: Solyndra Fast and Furious Aren't we lucky to have such a protective nanny...
There are 50 million uninsured Americans out there. ( See: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39215770/ns/health-health_care/t/number-uninsured-americans-hits-record-high/#.TpCRKXFNI8g ). If anyone of these individuals were to get a serious illness requiring a hospital stay they would either be refused treatment by a hospital or would probably face bankruptcy for their care. What would you do, if anything, Mr. Raganite to solve this problem? At least the recent healthcare legislation attempts to address this and many other long standing healthcare issue.
They would not be denied care. That is a myth. Care would be provided through the ER for patients who truly had a serious illness. Most hospitals now are more willing to work out terms. Care and innovation has a cost. Certainly the market as now defined has problems-but the opportunity to actually debate a solution was denied by the executive branch.
Not so in Arizona. The emergency room in the Flagstaff AZ hospital says that a patient without insurance or inability to pay has a right to be "stabilized" by the hospital for any medical condition. This is translated to mean get the patient sable enough to get him out the door and not necessarily treatment of the underlining cause.
Another question for Mr. Raganit: Who pays for the ER costs for treatment of patients without insurance in those states that require it? The money has got to come from somewhere.
Stabilization is acceptable in those situations. I do not think the public or the hospital has the obligation to provide long term treatment, or a battery of diagnostic tests, without any participation from the patient. There are also many private charities and hospitals providing care for those unable to pay, and most will agree to lengthy terms from patients. That ER treatment is born by the rest of us in the cost of our health insurance and care. I grant the current system could be made better, but the government is the worst option. Healthcare has to be considered among one's priorities when planning expenditures...it is a personal responsibility from diet to treatment. Charities have been established for indigent care and they have historically been well funded.
I do not share your optimism on private charities stepping up to provide healthcare to those that don't have insurance. Largely this does not exist at least where I live. If charities provide health care solutions for the uninsured in your community then tell me where you live as it sounds like a utopian community. The one exception to charities that does good work in the healthcare system is Hospice who care for the terminally ill. But even then Hospice functions well only because they get state supported funding which means tax payers are paying for most of Hospice care. I agree that the cost of hospital treatment of the uninsured is passed on to those that otherwise pay for their healthcare with insurance or not. So costs for healthcare are passed onto the insured which means my insurance costs are much higher. So how is this better than having an insurance program that covers everyone? If everyone was to be required to buy some kind of health insurance then that means my insurance costs would not need to subsidize others.
I have to admit, it is awful. Bills should be read, programs that effect the public should be simple enough for them to understand, we shouldn't need a lawyer to know how a health care plan is going to affect us.
You could also talk about why healthcare is so expensive in the US. I've heard it's 1/2 the price in europe. We all have at least one thing in common - we don't want to get screwed over and we want to live.
The U.S is the only country in the world where the sick, dieing , injured and elderly are a $trillion per year industry.
The insurance companies prevent a free market economy for health care.
See, "they" always talk about how great a free market is, but there's nothing like a free market here.
Blue Cross was founded to protect profits.
If doctors had to compete in a free market, well, they might have to be getting paid in chickens, like that crazy lady politician out west suggested we do. Docs don't wanna be paid in chickens, though. And hospitals are now for-profit and big business.
I'm self employed, no insurance. Luckily, healthy. I pay cash for office visits. When I needed extensive dental work, the doc cut me a deal because he appreciates being paid cash up front.
If I had to be hospitalized though, I'd have a problem. I'd have to go to Europe.
Yeah, the health industry is anything but a free market. The insurance part seems like just another cog in the machine. Patents on drugs (and coming soon, sequences of DNA) drive up prices. The insane costs of getting a medical degree assure doctors don't have competition.
And if they don't screw you over at the hospital, they do at the drug stores like walgreens. They have thousands of pills to take, along with a selection of junk food to keep you unhealthy.
The real question is what the alternative needs to be. I can't really take anyone seriously who isn't advocating universal healthcare. We can all sit here and talk about how bad obamacare is, but the right has very different "solutions".
Honestly, my own alternative is that I can go to Europe where I have access to healthcare. I really think this country is hopeless. Even though I think OWS has sparked something, the redneck/reagan culture war has been won.
Continuing to live here with the penalty that is going to kick in beginning in 2014 is going to hurt many working families. For me, I will do without a six thousand dollar a year insurance policy and go to Europe either as needed or permanently.
Luckily for me, I'm a stone's throw from Canada.
Can an American citizen easily go to Canada and get treated? Do they not require you to be a citizen? And do they bill you if you aren't?
I really know very little about the Canadian system, other than everything is free and most Canadians seem to like it.
I'm not sure about that, but even if they bill me I'm sure it will be cheaper than in the states.
No doubt. I remember Sarah Palin saying in a speech her family used to cross the border for health care when she was a child. I guess it is possible.
Wow I'm surprised she'd admit that. I thought we had the best healthcare system in the world.
lol she did! one of the funnier palin-isms
I just looked at travel.gov they do say you will be billed if you see a doctor in canada, but yeah it might be cheaper especially as compared to a US emergency room.
I'm sure it's vastly cheaper because I personally know people without insurance who see doctors in Canada frequently. They also say they don't have to wait as long. Go figure.
Yes! I agree....we have tax dollars for wars but none to care for our own. How did that come about?
Because Universal Healthcare is "socialism". If you'll notice, it wasn't even on the table. The public was never given a chance to learn about it.
So why isn't public education socialism? It just depends on one's priorities as to what is called socialism. But then that in itself is just a buzz word. Personally I don't give a damn what it is called...just get health care in place! NOW...and stop the stupid wars NOW!
People who don't like "socialism" in this country are also moving to do away with public schools.
Notice the attacks on teachers in WI, NJ and other states.
Notice the propaganda around charter schools, which funnel public money to private corporations who run schools. And in New York - Wall Street is involved in investing in charter schools.
"They" don't support free public education anymore than they support socialized health care.
To move to universal healthcare, and make it sustainable, some government entity is going to have to make decisions on the quality of care, and who should live or die. In addition tort reform will have to be enacted so that docs can live on the reduced reimbursements and not pay it all back out to insurers and attorneys. Then there is innovation, which is largely VC funded. It would grind to a near halt as well, so the government would need to pick up that slack...in the end, the sum of the parts smells like socialism.