Forum Post: I have to ask a few questions
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 28, 2011, 10:32 p.m. EST by TheTruth2011
(7)
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If capitalism is so bad, why is China on its way to becoming the number 1 economy in the world? Why did they not prosper when were a totally Socialist based country? Why do they now maintain state ownership of certain industries. Would they consider converting these industries to “Social ownership”? Why has the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic broken apart and become a kleptocracy? When these two countries were practicing so called social equality did their leaders live as the average citizen, or did they enjoy more - much more - of the Social distributions? Do you think that it will be any different here?
Ask yourself why do all the Hollywood stars and people like Michael Moore have so much more money than the average member of the Occupy movement yet tell you that the wealth must be redistributed starting at Wall St.. You people are foolish pawns. The most prolific mass murderers in the history of the world were Socialists. Joseph Stalin held power by killing those who protested. Mao Tse Tung was reponsible for the deaths of MILLIONS (as was Stalin). Pol Pot held power not by raising the standard of living of his people but by killing them when he felt it necessary to keep civil order. All of these Socialist Leaders made Hitler look like an amateur when it comes to exterminating masses of humanity.
You are being told not to protest at the Whitehouse or the Congressional venues because they are the innocent people taking orders from Wall Street. BULLSHIT!!! Yes they take money from Wall street but they line their own coffers with this money and stand in front of you saying that Wall street is killing Main Street. Wall street doesn't enact the laws, Congress does, and then the POTUS signs it into law. They have caused the problems by passing their ideas into laws and financial regulations that have caused this collapse. Now you are being fooled by their misdirection campaign designed to bring the system down. How is Socialism’s ideology working in Europe right now? How many countries have gone bankrupt over there? How many are on the brink? Can you even answer these two questions? Do you know what the term "fiat currency means"? Look it up (Google it) and understand that it is what supports the ideology you are supporting. It is the final WEAPON OF economic MASS DESTRUCTION. It has brought down every great society that has embraced some form of the concept of equalizing the wealth within a society. When currency is issued that is not backed by something of universally recognized value or chattel it becomes worthless and the price of tangible merchandise soars until the money (fiat currency) is no longer accepted anywhere. That is the true power you wield. If you achieve your goals you will destroy this country. If that is what you want then you can anticipate that anarchy and chaos will be the result. If that is what you want then don't ask why you are being arrested or treated UNFAIRLY. You need to look within yourself and ask why you are where you are. How does direct democracy in the workplace play out? If a fireman is given an order to save a baby trapped inside a burning building and says let's take a vote to see who goes in do you think the baby will survive the next half hour it takes to poll everyone using Twitter?
The TRUTH is that you can protest on Wall Street because the evil people there can't come out and kill you because they know that they would have to pay for that decision. What do you think will happen if you do something that causes problems from those truly in power that don't want to give it up. I saw it in the Vietnam era on the Campus at my Alma Mater. The National Guard was brought out until it ended up with "Four Dead in Ohio". Who eventually paid for those deaths? Did Wall Street order the National Guard onto our Campuses? Wake up and smell the coffee. Something that you get for nothing has no intrinsic value. It can take place for a short period of time but it destroys. Go ahead and take something for nothing, it will eventually destroy YOU.
State ownership is Social ownership, genius.
i will ignore you- and you are to stupid to respond to.
damn- joergan was right-lol
Lol, I know its picky but I just cant let it go when someone calls another person too stupid but in doing so makes the stupid grammatical error calling them "to stupid"
@demonstrator - thanks for being ignorant
mother nature herself is fighting back....you cannot blame the people because they sense impending doom too. so it is bigger than the 99%. it is the very survival of the species at stake.
capitalism is a fine idea. when do we start. ? there has never been a capitalism, there is only a corporate oligarchy. http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Corporate_Oligarchy
China is also a corporate oligarchy, which picked a dumber mask to use which failed to motivate their sheeple.
You are the foolish pawn.
We are not proposing socialism, we are proposing democracy.
The problem as it is is that government should regulate corporations and does not, thanks to evil republican whackjobs who try to make believe that the only options are between capitalism and socialism/ communism.
You don't know the truth, or if you do, you certainly aren't promoting it here. Nobody is asking for something for nothing, except for the oligarchs, who are literally using exotic economic devices to quite literally manufacture money out of nothing in order to maintain the caste order and their wealth. They give NOTHING to the civilization, they are parasites, most of whom have never given anything of value to society.
If you don't like the idea of people getting something for nothing, then you should be against the fed bank, against derivatives, and against economic bubbles, and against subsidies for oil up to and including wars.
stop being a moron duped propaganda tool, and YOU wake up and smell the coffee.
Your questions seem predicated on the idea that we're all in favor of communism and against capitalism. Perhaps before you asked questions based on this idea, you should have asked another question, like: "Are you"?
But most of what you posted is not in fact questions, it's just a diatribe, or at best merely rhetorical questions that neither expect nor deserve a reply. Well, thanks for your opinions, but I think I'll keep my own, as they seem to me to be slightly better.
Well I would love to read your opinions and judge them for myself. It is easy to criticize but not take a stance. Any coward can do it.
Well, if you're interested ...
Communism is unworkable in principle and didn't work in practice.
Capitalism ... capitalism, like fire, is a good servant but a poor master. As Adam Smith noted, it is essentially a system for making people serve the common good by following their selfish individual interests. But we cannot always rely on selfishness to serve the common good, this is why we have laws against things ranging from piracy on the high seas to insider share dealing to dumping toxic waste in my drinking water --- even if they are profitable.
The sub-prime crisis was an illustration of what happens when the profit motive is allowed to get out of hand. People had every financial incentive to conceal timebombs in the economy. There was no regulatory disincentive. Now we're living in the rubble. And the first thing that got rebuilt were the gleaming towers of the people who planted the bombs.
tl;dr but I did read this part:
"Why do they now maintain state ownership of certain industries. Would they consider converting these industries to “Social ownership”? "
Are you aware that socialism is when the State owns the means of production? So China is in fact practicing socialism when they maintain state-owned industries?
Not sure what you think "social ownership" is, I've never heard of that, but socialism/communism is state ownership of the means of production. That ain't capitalism, baby.
Social Ownership is a term I came across on a post within this community. I think it is a term that is equivalent to cooperative ownership under Marxian theory. That is the hallmark of a Socialist economy.
China is practicing some as yet unnamed hybrid economy (under Marxian theory) that uses Capitalist principles yet maintains cooperative (aka state) owned ventures that provide primary revenue for the common good (pay the people running the country).
Communism is the pinnacle of Societal evolution according to Marx. In his theory communism is a classless and stateless existance with no boundaries. It is a theoretical utopia that leads me to believe that Marx was a wacko.
My primary contention is that Capitalism was how this country prosperred to greatness and was able to provide certain social entitlements such as Social Security and Medicare. But they are things that the workers themselves have funded. The conservative lament is that too many people are getting too much stuff that is not provided by economic production. The result is the Fed "printing" more money that not backed by any thing of real value. It is "fiat" currency from the latin word meaning "let it be done". That is what the Roman Empire did to pay for all the social needs that led to its' ruin.
Russia failed as a Socialist economy. China was a severe mess as a Socialist economy but now prospers with their new economic practices. What does observable history tell us about Socialism? That is the real question that too many are trying to ignore.
The government of China would not be as successful at "capitalism" as it is if it weren't also a totalitarian state.
It's not hard to be a successful capitalist when you have slave labor readily available to you.
Just ask the founders of this country.
Correction. Mao himself was not responsible for the death of millions. A big hunk of the death and suffering from his time as Chairman was due to natural disaster. (His economic policies didn't help much, but that's another story). China has one of the WORST Gini-indexes (what's used to measure disparities in wealth distribution) in the world. You haven't seen poverty and disconnect until you seen rural China. There are capitalist playgrounds in the big cities, where you see a few million millionaires running around, but the VAST majority of them have nothing.
As for what camp of ideology is responsible for the most deaths...I would have to say religious fundamentalism (not going to name which...) has been responsible for more death and suffering than communism.
Not defending communism by any means...it was a nice idea for Germany and Britain back in the 1800s but it has no place in the 21st century.
Maos responsibility is a matter for debate in its' own venue. The reference was simply an example of the sham of social ownership of property versus private ownership.The famine that occurred under Maos stewardship was arguably the result of the policies that fostered a population apathetic to its own nutritional needs. They did not have the basic motivation needed to provide for their own sustenance.
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OWS in not anti-capitialist. It is pro capitalist. There is nothing capatilist about bailing out failing banks. That's socialism.
Who passed the bailouts? Why aren't the protests then in Washington? The place they "Occupy" are the hallowed gounds of Capitalism not the new hallowed grounds of Socialism with the initials DC.
The OWS protests are in Washington. They are now in hundreds of locations throughout the United States and other countries. This movement is nationwide and global.
Excellent post. Truth plain and simple. Btw - not right or left, in the middle - call myself a realist.