Forum Post: I have a question about the OWS statement
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 6, 2011, 3:23 p.m. EST by BrainC
(400)
from Austin, TX
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The American Dream has been stolen from the world. What is preventing you from achieving the American Dream?
Workers are told that they aren't allowed health care, shelter, food. Who is preventing you from obtaining health care, shelter and food? Are you REALLY homeless and starving? Is there NOTHING you can do about your situation? If you are working, where is ALL of your money going besides shelter and food?
Students are told that they aren't allowed jobs, and that they will be in debt for the rest of their lives, unable to declare bankruptcy. You are saying that a job is a right? What jobs have you tried to get and been told you are not allowed to have? What jobs are you willing to take? Who made you take out a student loan and get into debt? Was it NOT a choice?
Agreed, the latest official post is pretty weak. Things suck, I agree the 1% should pay their fair share, but if you point the finger at them for everything you end up looking like a whining jealous loser.
Nearly half (47 percent) of all full-time undergraduate college students attend a four-year college that has published charges of less than $9,000 per year for tuition and fees.
Source: http://www.collegeboard.com/student/pay/add-it-up/4494.html
So if someone is spending $100K on an education, who's choice was that?
People don't have equal opportunity, because corporations write our laws. There may be a chance that anyone in this country can be a millionaire, but that chance is an illusion to 99% of the country. The system is rigged so that those born with money can continue to make it while the rest of the population is screwed. The American dream is not meant to be a gamble. It's supposed to be that if you work hard, you can have a good life. That's simply not true anymore.
How is it the corporations are at fault that people believe in this "education will make a better life for you" dream? Are you saying the corporations should provide more jobs? Or that the corporations should require less of their potential applicants?
It what manner has the American Dream failed you personally?
What I personally believe is that corporations should have a mandate for public good instead of profit above all else. They routinely get away with all kinds of nefarious behavior, but why? They should not have a license to commit crimes.
I agree they should not commit crimes. What crimes have been committed?
Is providing jobs a public good?
Their crimes are too many to count... the chief among them, in my opinion, being that the profit mandate applies to the sale of weapons, and weapons sell much better when countries are at war. Then you've got hydrolic fracturing poisoning future water supply and displacing families, communities and wildlife; the oil industry pushing their products on the entire world at the cost of sustainable technologies and entire ecosystems, hundreds of cases of poisonings and dumpings of toxic waste without regard for public or environmental safety, etc, etc, etc. Jobs are nice, but corporations have no obligation to create jobs. They are about profit and are beholden to nothing else.
I agree that corporations should not commit crimes in order to provide jobs, yet how many industries are you talking about? I ind it hard to believe that most of the big corporations are committing crimes. Is that what you believe?
The purpose of going to a university is to get a specialized education so you can one very specific set of jobs.
Why should someone who gets $100K in debts have to put up with working at a local starbucks --- Outside of taking care of the bottom line.
Did you pay $100k for an education? What degree did you get? Could you have found a cheaper means to an education? A local community college?
I do not think that college is to narrow your career field, yet to broaden your career field.
Actually... that is all a degree does, give you a narrow set of skills to use in a small assortment of jobs that you are now officially qualfied for.
I actually have no college debt, I am going off of the figures that a few friends are getting. And not everywhere is community college available unless if they are willing to go out of state or travel hundreds of miles.
So why would someone make the choice to go to a university that will put them in debt by $100k when it does not help them in the future?
BTW, if someone has a degree in, say, education. That will qualify for a job that only requires a high school diploma AND a job that includes the education field. That sounds like it ADDS to the choices. What it sounds like you are saying is that if you get a degree in education you MUST be an educator.
Out of curiosity, how many people out that have a degree and do NOT work in the field of their degree? I would bet most.
It is true they aren't required to be an educator when they get an education degree, but that kind of defeats the purpose I would imagine.
And people go into debt believing it will help them now and in the future. That is the usual logic of it. Getting an education is an investment if nothing else. And increasingly becoming a shoddy investment.
But if you fill out an application and just have a high school diploma versus a college degree, regardless if the job is in the same field as the degree or not, do you not have a better chance at getting that job? Granted, it might not be $100k better.
And besides the education you get in the specific field of study, you also show a future employer several other things. You are teachable, because you passed the college finals. You can finish a task, because you finished college. Qualities an employer would be looking for.
Yup. Sounds about right.
But here is the real catch now: There has to be a job there for you if you want to dig out of your hole that you incidentally dug yourself into...
So should people settle for a job at mcdonalds or starbucks when they are capable of so much more? This is taking into account the bottom line (feeding yourself and housing) is taken care of.
So should people turn down a job at McDonald's or Starbucks even if the bottom line is not taken care of?
I am not above a job at McDonald's if it keeps the bottom line. If that is all that is available to me at the time.
I do agree with the availability of jobs. The big question is, what is the best course of action for us to provide more jobs?
If my bottomline isn't taken care of, I'll take any job. But even getting that mcdonald's job is ridiculous.
And to get more jobs is really the big question... and unlike most people I was blessed with the knowledge to be able to work remotely as a web developer and programmer... but not everyone does that.
But we also may be on the cusp of a massive drop in population if things don't improve... economies always seem to improve after a lot of young men get killed in far away countries.
Narrow set of skills? Maybe that's all you got. Every degree, no matter what it's in, gives you a set of skills that prepares you to learn a new set of skills at whatever job you end up with. You learn how to learn and think, or at least you should. Do you think you're going to be a productive employee the day you enter a new college-level career? Not a chance, it takes 3 months to a year to get up to speed to the point that you're actually useful. That depends on what the job is and how well you learned how to learn in college.
About it being a shoddy investment: for some people it is. There are too many people with college degrees that would have been better off just getting an AA or going to trade school, but freedom comes with the freedom to make mistakes.
And your guesstimation sounds about right. But here is the trick...
YOU GOTTA GET THE JOB FIRST!
I got lucky and found a job... otherwise I might be out there trying to organize a protest... but I know plenty of people could at least use some contributions to help others keep fighting the good fight.
Funny thing about some mistakes --- they just don't go away and haunt you. Sometimes for a healthy part of your life.
Hey, I'm in the same boat. I'm graduating with an even higher degree soon and my job prospects look grim. But I don't blame rich people. I should have stayed at the job I got out of college. I gambled and lost, that's part of life. I'll survive.
I want to support this movement, but I can't support many of the things I've read on this site. If OWS just sticks to repealing the Bush tax cuts, I think it's something that a majority of Americans will get onboard for, and it will make for a good start.
I think the majority of the people on here simply want fewer things than anything else to keep them happy...
Corporations no longer participating in donating to politicians. The wealthy and corporations paying higher taxes, at least a fair share. Holding corporations either completely responsible for their crimes, or stop recognizing them as people.
But regardless, you seem like a reasonable and nice fellow. And I am in full support of the cause, but I feel very strongly that the more people try to demonize them, the more that the movement will eventually fulfill your prophecies.
They want to be heard, recognized, and want a piece of change that they can really feel.