Forum Post: I don't think this movement should have ANY goals or demands.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 22, 2011, 2:16 a.m. EST by Lefty48197
(117)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
At least not yet.
Right now the movement is based in discontent with the economic system. We can focus the message and say that Corporate Greed is cutting real wages, eliminating benefits, sending jobs overseas etc. etc. etc. I still think the root is the general discontent with our economic system. It's fine with me that some people are getting rich, but the truth is that the standard of living of middle class Americans has been dropping for about 40 years. Corporations are donating money to politicians who in turn are writing legislation that benefits those corporations. Many of them are doing quite well, whether they got a bail out or not. To me it all boils down to self-serving politicians and corporations who have been leaving the rest of us behind. As time goes on, we get further and further behind. That's my complaint. I believe that is the root of this entire movement.
What I don't think anybody needs right now is for the Supreme Council of the OWS Movement to start making a list of demands or goals based on anything outside of my narrow scope.
If all the professional protestors get their way, they'll have a list of demands that includes less hamburger, more guns, less smoking, more beer.
Oh sure it would be nice to force low cap on interest rates for people making under $100,000 or whatever. It would be nice to do this or to do that, but nobody has come to any consensus as to what those goals/demands should be. People making up lists in smoke filled rooms aren't interested in making a list that really benefits 99%, just the percentage that they like or have taken an interest in. Until a consensus forms and somebody takes a leadership role and expresses that consensus, it's just plain too early to be making lists of demands.
Seventh, radically change the way that loans and mortgages are structured in America. Financial institutions have had a massive free ride on the backs of home buyers and other loan applicants for way too long. All mortgages on traditional single family homes should be limited to ten or fifteen year durations; preferably, ten. By making mortgages last for thirty years, the lending institutions reap huge windfalls in the additional interest paid over the life of the loans, effectively causing the home “owners” to pay almost triple the purchase prices of the homes to the lenders. To keep monthly payments affordable for borrowers, the lenders should not be allowed to increase the interest rates, or put in a bunch of “hidden” costs, on these newly required, shorter length loans, to make up for the extra interest that they would “lose” by being required to go with a shorter duration loan. Lending institutions should still be able to realize a decent profit within this more equitable system. Since some lenders are moving to the incredibly immoral eighty and ninety year mortgages, which means that borrowers are effectively turned into life-long renters, this may be the time to rein things back into line with reality and fairness. Some kind of settlement should be considered, whereby borrowers who have already paid half of their thirty year mortgage would have the remaining amount of the loan severely reduced, or even erased totally, paying the loan off, and giving them a clear title to the home. This may be considered as unfair to those who have already made more than fifteen years worth of payments, but we have to draw the line somewhere. To somewhat reduce this unfairness, a class action, windfall profits, type of lawsuit could be used to “refund” interest payments already made in excess of fifteen years, but that could possibly break the banks. All adjustable rate mortgages are inherently immoral (similar to the way that credit card companies are allowed to increase the interest rate on purchases already made under previously existing lower interest rates, as discussed below), regardless of whether the people agreeing to their terms fully understand the risks, or not. These adjustable rate mortgages should never have been allowed, and they should be banned immediately. All existing adjustable rate loans should immediately be converted to fixed rate mortgages, with the total difference in interest that was paid due to the rate differential between the [now higher interest rate] adjustable and a comparable fixed rate mortgage, being applied to the remaining PRINCIPAL of the loan. Since these types of loans should never, from an ethical and moral standpoint, have been devised, the lending institution should have to absorb this loss against the PRINCIPAL. If the borrower was lucky, and paid a little less than they would have with a comparable fixed rate mortgage, they should be allowed to “keep” this savings. After all, the bank gambled on higher future interest rates to pad their profits, and they would still, when their mortgage portfolios were examined in totality, make a profit either way. The odds were on their side, and this dishonest game should finally end. Just as casino owners are able to build multi-million or billion dollar buildings off of the money of their suckers/customers, so banks have been able to do the same, and they can afford to start having a more reasonable profit margin, just like most other businesses. Any homeowners who have since paid off an adjustable rate mortgage should be reimbursed for the higher interest paid, through a windfall profits, class action lawsuit, similar to the one mentioned earlier. In either case, no sneaky, fine print laden, hidden penalties should be incurred by any borrowers in retribution for these retroactive settlements.
Sixth, immediately “grandfather” out the Social Security system, which has been a huge pyramid scheme, from the very start. All new employees entering the workforce should be told that they need to think about saving for their futures, because the Social Security program will not be there for them (and it probably would not have been, anyway). The good news is that the money they would have lost to Social Security deductions in every paycheck will make Way more in interest than would have been possible with the administratively top-heavy Social Security system, and, it will be there, always available, even after they pass away, to help their survivors. This is not the case with the current system, where the money that has been paid in for years may be instantly forfeited upon one spouse’s passing, and certainly so, upon the death of the original recipient. The family will be left with nothing of the money that was paid in for all of those years. It will disappear and revert to the treasury, which has also had the use of the money for all of those years, just as it does, but only for a year, with the money that is “withheld” from our paychecks for income tax. Social Security is a huge scam operation, with only the government really benefiting. Current workers, who have been paying into the system for years, would have that amount already paid in prorated, to allow them to receive an appropriate amount when they become eligible. Going forward, their paycheck deductions would also immediately cease, allowing them to also save or invest that newly available money, for a much higher, non-SSA-overhead return, in the private sector. Like any pyramid scheme, Social Security is eventually going to collapse completely. The faster we get this collapse over with, and in a controlled fashion, the less painful it will be to cut our losses and finally close the books on this total disaster of an idea. Sorry, AARP and seniors. That is just the way it is. Realistically, everyone (except for, as in all pyramid schemes, the very first enrollees), would have been better off if the program had never gotten off the ground. So, good riddance to a really bad idea, and, the sooner the better.
yes, our demand should be to be heard, for media to cover us, to air our grievances, so we can educate the people.... no other demand at this time....
Fourth, stop all immigration, both illegal and legal, and deport all illegal immigrants, including their illegal spouses, children (including all “anchor babies”, who would not be here if their parent(s) had not entered the country illegally, in the first place), and any illegal extended family members. Change or strengthen the law(s) so that any children born to non-American citizens are no longer automatically American citizens, and, as mentioned above, ensure that this policy is applied retroactively, with no exceptions. Then, no one should be allowed to move to this country unless and until every single American citizen, who is able to work, is employed. Even after full employment is achieved, our borders should probably remain closed. There is just no more room, especially for people whose cultures have no restraint when it comes to reproduction, unless we all want to end up living in places like the middle of the Mojave Desert, or the Everglades, and commute increasingly long distances to work. The hypothetical argument of dividing the total square acreage of the United States up among a potentially unlimited number of inhabitants is extremely and fatally misleading. There are only so many nice places to live, and produce food, and that is just the way it is. Trying to be politically correct will not magically create more good land to live and grow crops on. Look at over-populated and impoverished Calcutta, or the tin and cardboard slums of some South American cities, and imagine the streets in your neighborhood (and Every neighborhood in America) with that kind of overpowering population density, filthy living conditions, massive crime rates, etc.
Fifth, go to a straight flat tax, for state, federal, and local tax systems, with no exemptions or deductions, of any kind, for any reason, for anybody. This would reduce the total amount of tax each individual pays, since everybody would pay a fair share into the finite pool of money needed to provide essential services in each jurisdiction. If a multi-billionaire is enjoying the financial benefits of a country and economic system that allow them to make more money than the person working at the local fast-food place, then they should pay a higher overall amount (Not percentage) of taxes, on the higher overall amount of money they earn. With the current graduated tax system, and its hundreds, if not thousands, of pages of arcane tax code provisions, there is no real incentive to make investments or increase one’s income, unless a team of tax lawyers can be kept on staff. For the average person, it is a case of grin and bear it, as in giving the IRSS the shirt off of your back. The huge and costly overhead of the IRS would no longer be needed to collect these flat taxes, since it would only require a simple multiplication to determine the amounts due. If companies or individuals move off-shore to escape this new flat tax system, then use the new no-outsourcing policy of step Two to prohibit them from doing any kind of business, or receiving any wages or other compensation from any transactions, in America and its economic system. No more free rides for those who are skilled at manipulating the system, at the expense of nearly everybody else. Also, get rid of estate/death taxes, taxes on savings and investments (which inhibit those savings and investments, effectively removing money that would be available for capital to create new businesses and jobs), and sales taxes on used vehicles and all other resold items, since all of these taxes amount to double taxation,. If possible, get rid of sales taxes all together, since these tend to inhibit consumer spending, which causes retailers, and then their wholesale suppliers, to cut back on employees, in an ever-increasing downward spiral of increasing unemployment.
There are Ten Realistic Steps that could be implemented in America, without completely trying to dismantle the whole capitalist-based economic system (which is just not going to happen, any time soon). Even if that did happen, the results would be less than pleasant. Intelligent corrections are necessary, while there is still time. But, we should not just discard the whole system, in favor of other systems that have been shown not to work. As bad as things have gotten in this country, you still do not see people risking their lives to leave here and move to Cuba, Russia, Venezuela, Iran, Mexico, China, Japan, etc., etc.
One more thing, in regard to these Ten suggested steps. No attempt has been made to make them politically correct. It really is long past the time for political correctness to be discarded. We are never going to solve our problems if everyone is always walking around on eggshells, afraid to say anything or suggest any possible solutions, for fear of being ostracized by this week’s extremely irritating “offended class”. This is not Kindergarten. We are all adults, so start acting like it. Let’s get real.
First, make English the official and only legal language of the United States, for any and all public communications, commerce, and transactions. If people want to speak other languages in their private lives, that is their right, in this, a free country. But, everything else, including all advertising and instructions for products, must be in English only. This ruling would also include all of those obnoxious and time-wasting phone menus. No more having to press a number for English, or any other language. Instructions for voting, drivers’ licenses, street signs, signs on businesses, billboards, or anything else, must all be in English, and English only. No exceptions. If anybody is not happy with this situation, they are completely free to move to another country, where the language of their choice is natively spoken and used for public discourse.
Second, completely outlaw outsourcing, of any kind, including that of services, such as call help centers, and make this overall policy totally retroactive, meaning bring back all of the jobs that have already been outsourced, and permanently keep them here, where they belong. This is important for two reasons. It is the right and moral thing to take care of our own people, before boosting the economies of other countries, especially those who blatantly promote the use of slave labor, and practice wanton environmental destruction. Since the American economy is largely sustained by consumer spending, it just makes sense to keep jobs here and pay decent wages to working Americans, who will in turn buy goods that are produced by other decently paid working Americans. If it can be built, grown or otherwise done here, it should be accomplished here. No exceptions.
Third, immediately stop affirmative action, which is one of the reasons that employers have turned to outsourcing, and make any such programs illegal, since they amount to reverse discrimination, which is still…well…discrimination. These misguided policies really help no one in the long run, and they hurt a lot of people, as well as hurting the way that businesses, and all other enterprises, run (or fail to). Everybody; employers, employees, and the public, need to have confidence that a given person is qualified for the job that they are in, and that that is the only reason they have that job.
We all know that something is drastically wrong with the way that the American economy is being run. I personally think that the time is growing short to be able to resolve this situation peacefully, and that the country is on the brink of a civil war, which it will not survive. I have added a brief essay on communism at the beginning of this opinion piece, in answer to the demands for the imposition of such an economic system that I have read on the OWS site, and seen in interviews of some of the protestors.
Because of limitations with the website, I will have to split the piece into several posts.
Ten Steps to restoring Prosperity and Freedom in America.
At minimum, Ten actions need to be taken to begin restoring Prosperity and Freedom in America.
The Case Against Communism First of all, when examining what is wrong with America’s economic system (and there is plenty that is currently wrong with it), we need to be realistic and sensible. We need to really be honest with ourselves. Communism is never going to work as a viable replacement for the current economic system in America. Or Anywhere else. Because, as both a philosophical and economic system, it goes against nature. Not just human nature, but nature, itself. If there is little or no incentive to work and produce, then any animal, especially homo-sapiens, will just sit back and not work. This might not happen right away, but it will inevitably occur. It is an old argument, but if the person who can build a garage in three days is told that they are going to receive the same salary as a person who is only capable of nailing a couple of boards together in the same time period, then it will not be long belong the more skilled/intelligent carpenter decides that there is no real incentive for working smarter and harder. Honestly, would you blame him or her? The communes of the 60’s mainly failed for this reason. Why should the harder working members bust their backs to gather wood, till the fields, plant the crops, etc., when someone else is sitting over in the corner getting stoned, but still fully expecting to get an equal share of food when those crops are harvested, again while they are contemplating their navels, or doing something else equally unproductive? Communism fails wherever it is tried, because it ultimately destroys incentive. So, let’s move on, make the corrections that are needed to regulate the American capitalist system, and return this to a more equitable economy, once again. This system worked very well for quite a while, producing a strong middle class, which was indicative of the existence of upward mobility. Upward mobility creates incentive. Incentive creates progress. Progress creates a better life for everyone. Currently, the Really Fat Cats, who are really in charge of the global economy, have finally managed to get the world’s formerly independent economic systems so tightly interlocked and fine-tuned, that the planet has become one giant slave-labor plantation. Corporations and their shareholders are happily going along for the ride. It is an “I got mine, forget everybody else” mentality, and they seem to be able to sleep very well at night. This, of course, can not continue much longer, even if these deluded people believe it can. As they always do. The French and Russian revolutions, just to cite two examples, proved that the peasants will only stand for so much abuse, before corrections are made; often violently. And, the ones holding the leashes are always so surprised. “Wow. I guess they really were upset!” Chop… Rather than sink down into the proven failure of communism, which is not only unworkable (and unnatural), and which always leads to an Animal Farm reality, where some animals are naturally better than others, we need to restore the capitalistic system (which, of all the economic systems, is most in harmony with nature) in each country on this planet back to a more fair and equitable operation. As has been proven by the current disastrous state of the overall global economy, this restoration will necessarily require strong regulation(s) of the entities that operate within these systems. The corporation, as an entity, is completely and blissfully amoral, and its shareholders happily hide behind this shield of immorality, ignoring the human and environmental wreckages that are created by their proxies. They may plead innocence, but they are fooling no one. Once again, this type of abusive behavior is not sustainable, as history shows. While we can not directly make this necessary correction happen in other countries, we can lead, by example, as Americans have done for centuries. So, once again, let’s stay focused. Let’s be realistic, and not go flying wildly off on some idealistic, completely unsustainable, pie-in-the-sky theoretical tangents, only to sink into the same old totalitarian quicksand that has already been explored, with always disastrous human and economic results. Let’s plan, and then act, forcefully, but rationally.
I respectfully, and strongly disagree. Without clear goals or demands, you are just floundering about, with no direction. That makes movement random, and forward progress effectively impossible to achieve. The people at the top will just step around you, figuratively and literally, and patiently wait for you to burn yourselves out. To succeed, America needed a Declaration of Independence, and then a Constitution. Anarchy is very easy to do, but it is a fool’s game. You will only have a limited time to bring about change. Right now, your almost total lack of organization and clear-cut vision is causing your credibility to be close to room temperature. Eventually the movement will go tango-uniform, and everybody will just drift away. Winter is coming, and I don’t just mean the weather.
MIAMI (CBSMiami.com) – Florida is touting the new jobs it created Friday after a positive unemployment report. But based on numbers from all W-2’s filed in the country, the wages simply aren’t keeping up.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans, saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively.
The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion.
In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009.
Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated around 40% of all United States wealth. The upper class held around 30%. The middle and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed. Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut moreo jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, the lions share of United States wealth was gradually transfered back to the middle class. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. This was the recovery. A massive redistribution of wealth.
Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own well over 40 percent of all US wealth. The lower 90 percent own less than 10 percent of all US wealth. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible.
No redistribution. No recovery.
If you want to set goals, you have to work on the level of constitutional rights and duties, both national and international (due to inevitable international trade of resources and to some extent also services). All constitutions are written by the 1%. They should be written by the 99%. We can write a new constitution (which can include elements of the actual constitution). All the rest is convincing police men and soldiers to stand on the side of the 99%.
Neither do I