Forum Post: I agree with OWS on something!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 8:29 p.m. EST by slinkeey
(244)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Keep money out of politics. (If they really stand for this)
No More Funding From:
Businesses, Unions, Churches, Individuals, Lobbyists, Groups, Celebrities, and the list goes on...
WARNING, I tend to bring this off topic.
Great post! I think most of OWS would agree.
Thank You. I think much of nonOWS would agree.
Its got my vote.
You are US :) We need a Constitution Amendment to remove corporate person-hood and institute the public only financing of elections. Of course everyone has their pet perspectives but you will be hard pressed to find any who oppose what you propose (trolls excepted).
Thank you for responding.
You have got to be the first civil person on here that I have dealt with in relation to OWS.
Sorry, I don't think that I am. I am also not the 1%... Very, Very far from it.
I have called a troll on here for pointing out that Obama is a huge beneficiary of Wall Street. He is a very talented fund raiser. He could really put the skill to better use if you ask me.
Public only can be corrupted too... A rich entity could hire tons of people to distribute his campaign donations.
hopefully the voices will get more reasonable and sane as the months go by dont take it personally spread your own sanity around as best you can..i am trying also
I am sure many of the people have their hearts in the right places. I guess seeing my mom pull her self back up after my father passed away gave me a different view of the world. She struggled while others took handouts. Things in life change your view of life.
When I go to work and do something inventive that people appreciate, I always think, this one is for you, Dad!
i just try to be of sevice to everyone i meet sometime walking away from dimwits makes them think.......why did that guy walk away?? was it something i said..? anyway here is my new video for your mom...its called HOPE Humans On Planet Earth....its chilled.....and it really just says ....we are in trouble ...have been 4 a long time......and we are all in this together ...and the answer is both internal and then external...be brave man...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QrDLwSgg24
This is struggle, for a better place to live. I've seen an unemployment check but I used them to start my own business. There will always be people who take advantage of largesse but as you say will they always be the same people.
That is great that you own a business.
My father owned a Tool and Die Shop... I would love to take it over as it still exists, plus my mom runs it.. It is a dying trade because united states is no longer the manufacturing muscle it once was. Don need much tooling made when we no longer make anything.
I am a programmer.. He programmed PLCs and CNCs on the Job, so I suppose some of his occupational legacy is still alive in me.
They make it hard. You really have to find a niche nowadays to be able to make it as an independent. I think you already know, boldness counts. And we are taking that concept from our personal lives and bringing it to the public arena.
May I ask what you produce?
I don't. I'm in retail. So the short answer is waste. Trash and profit.
Yeah well, the trolls do that to and frankly most people who are deeply involved with the movement aren't here in this forum. They are on the streets, learning, educating, finding each other, discussing solutions but that isn't what happens here. A vast group of people attempting to discredit OWS make most of that impractical on this site. Just a few of us actual sympathizers sticking around to try and counter them when people like you show up. I'm sure Obama got a lot of votes from people involved in this but there isn't any love lost between him and OWS right now. If you wanna see who is OWS you have to find them at one of the protests. Those people for the most part are kind, rational, smart and really care. Your point about donations is valid, I guess what I really meant is government only funding of elections, equal money, equal air time, etc.
Besides being inflammatory, trolls like to misrepresent themselves as participants in this movement, post false links to websites, and generally spread misinformation. Known Trolls include: PlasmaStorm, FreeMarkets, trumpster, Vox559, libtard, marsdeflAnCe, MikeyD, ItsOnlyMe, Nobody33, monahan, sawata, ArrestAllCEOS, Freedumb, Vox255, jacktherip, Obama2012, therealdeal2011, YuckFouHippies, RicoSuave, Moving2China, oceanweed, ssst,
I suppose, by your definition, I am a "troll". I wish I could be in the movement but age and military disability have taken their toll. I remember Selma, Little Rock, Columbia etc. during the Civil Rights Movement. I was a soldier during the End the Vietnam War movement. A silent partner praying no more American lives would be wasted. To OWS I say: "keep the Faith" and stay united. I have always remembered those beautiful words of 1964. "The times they are changing." Bob Dylan. Strong hearts and steadfast nerves but be peaceful as Dr. King was. You are America and as your forefathers before you you have the right to make changes. God keep you all safe.
No sir, you are good with me. If you posted 3000 characters in Chinese that would be trolling ;)
I am going off topic now..
Another question.. We can keep responses short, if you don't mind, to keep things moving..
Does OWS as a whole support forgiving Student Loans? I have a few problems with this, if that is true.
1.) Savings are backed by loans to a point. Part of investing the savings is done with giving loans.
2.) What about everyone that payed off their loans historically. That is a slap in the face to someone for being responsible.
I could be wrong, but I think the requests for "forgiving student loans" is meant to symbolize the lack of attention the lower/middle class get in an unforgiving economy while wall street is propped up with tax dollars. At least, this is how I see it.
But I would agree with you that OWS should not be focused on forgiving student loans.
The short answer on this is No.
I have seen some people mention it both for and against. I think we all can agree that the issue of student loans gets a bit fuzzy. On one hand many of us agreed to pay these back once done with school, and fully intended to honor them. However i think many have finished school just in time to see the job market dry up leaving many to feel like they basically just got suckered into racking up a ton of school debt with no ability to pay it back.
I can see people pushing for this, but i think it just isn't a viable option realistically. I do see some merit in say something like freezing the interest on all current loans so they no long grow. A middle ground that would offer some relief to these people. Honestly though i will leave this topic up to people who have a better understanding of these loans as i barely understand my own let alone the overall system enough to come up with a plan to address such a large issue.
Maybe forgiving loans is just something that the bonehead media keeps bringing up because it buys an audience.
I would agree, but i have seen some people on the forums suggest the same thing. They are not really given much stock from the rest of the forum users though. Can't tell if they are just trolls trying to throw everyone off or legitimate members who just don't understand the effect it would have. in either case i just don't see it ever happening we have more than 1 person trying to get people behind a unrealistic demand this is just one of them. They will get weeded out eventually.
I know it can upset things, but I support forgiving student loans. I don't consider it a slap in the face to me. I took out a student loan for college years ago and paid it off with a good record. But today the stakes are far different. Tuitions are way more out of reach. Students are paying way more and there are no jobs. I think it is atrocious. With my record of paying back my loan, I am not offended by the proposal. Maybe I feel that way because my loan was so long ago, but nevertheless, I feel that way
How about delaying instead. Everyone needs a chance to get on their feet.
They knew it was a loan when they took it.. It was never a gift.
I would back that, but I guess I am also upset at the high cost of education in this country. We admit we are falling behind other developed countries in education yet still refuse to fund it as they do in Europe. I think at heart I am a democrat in favor of national health care, publicly funded higher education. A few things like that.
National health care? If that happens, I hope some private sticks around. I personally like my doctor. I actually pay him with credit card because he doesn't deal with the bullshit that insurance companies play.
He is actually reasonable too.. How does he do it? He told me much of his costs was dealing with insurance companies and that includes state run insurance.
For sure. i had an elderly doctor with five secretaries who used to have just a nurse. I hate it. I wouldn't mind the combo of public with the option of having supplemental private plans. Honestly, I think it needs to get off the shoulders of employers. It has become ridiculous. When you recall how it was 40 years ago versus now. Oh, and the optional private plans could only be bought individually, not by groups. Need to keep everyone in the game, otherwise, quality of care would tank
Well Racine, WI's largest employer, Johnson's Wax, is going to be penalized for offering too good of health care.
This is the kind of bullshit that needs to be removed from the bill. They are doing this as an asset to our community. J. Wax has contributed to this city ten fold and I am proud to have them as a neighbor even though I am not an employee.
They treat employees well.
They are conserving Frank Lloyd Wright buildings.
They are buying and conserving city landmarks.
What do they get for this? A kick in the ass from Obama!
I think Obama sees the word conserve and his undies get tied in a bundle.
what bullshit? Confused
Health Care Bill..
I don't know who snuck that bullshit into the bill and how they missed it, but it is a total slap in the face to an employer that has been historically good to their employees.
wait, which bill? Oh, Obamacare? Really, Hillary was the only one in support of national health care who could have pushed through real national health care.
Maybe the undies get in a knot, but in the old days the middle class bought major medical and paid the doctor for the housecall out of pocket. Now a minor trip to the ER starts at $1000 just walking in the door and the bankruptcy courts are overflowing with fully employed couples with nothing but massive amounts of medical debt on their balance sheets
I don't. I hope that the movement as a whole doesn't come out that way. However, I think having them discharged in bankruptcy was perfectly reasonable.
I think that having them suspended until the graduate's conditions improve would be fair. No need to even jack the interest either. I just don't like the idea of people's (Mine, Yours, Grandma's, Fred's, Jenny's) savings being used in vain.
I can't say that I personally believe that consumer savings accounts are going into these loans. Basically the FDIC is what backs deposits, the banks are heavily leveraged on those deposits, and anyway and a lot of them are government backed if you qualify. There should be a temporary break for the unemployed.
But FDIC should really be used for emergencies.
Agree. Like when banks make really bad derivative bets with your money. I'm just saying money is fungible. They aren't really loaning out your money, they are using your money as collateral to borrow super cheap from the Federal Reserve and then loan that out as interest.
I would not consider that an emergency. People have been paying student loans for years.
I understand my money is collateral. Not like I am getting much interest anyways.. I feel bad for the elderly that partially rely on interest as part of their retirement.
Sorry ran out of thread so I'm above what I'm responding to. Theoretically yes but, It hasn't even been that good for borrowers... My credit card interest didn't drop significantly, if you can't refinance because of negative equity what good does it do ya? In my opinion they dropped it to low, so low that the banks have no reason not to borrow from the FED and buy Treasuries so none of it is getting out there into the real economy anyway. But really I think that was the plan, to recapitalize their zombie banks.
I use my credit card like a free bill keeper.. I let them balance my finances.. I write one check a month. Well pay online.. I pay the balance in full. I don't care what the interest charge is because I don't use it for credit.. I use it for convenience. I don't have the money to waste on interest payments. Now I realize this is one man's scenario.
I also take advantage of the security. Lots of crap being sold in the stores and stores are not willing to back up garbage that they sell.. The CC company will though.
I agree, I was being facetious. I don't think they'll get a consensus on student loans except to the extent they should be discharged in bankruptcy; I wouldn't go for more than that. We've all been screwed by the system, either that or it just hasn't reached you yet. Interest is gone and their purchasing power parity is cut in half. Bet they didn't see that one coming.
Forgive me for jumping in half-way, but the laws have changed to the point you basically can't get your student loans discharged in bankruptcy.
Two sides of low interest..
Good for Borrowers. Bad for Savers.
And yes, saving money can help the economy when you are saving for a future purchase. For example, I saved my money to buy a small used boat instead of taking out a loan. I figured I would rather make interest for a few years instead of pay interest for a few years. Sure, I didn't have a boat right away, but I didn't have to fork over dough to the bank. :)
Actually I am very pissed off at my bank for something that is not related to what OWS is protesting.. I would share, but I don't want to sound like a whiner.
You can remove Fred. Never took out loans, started my own business when I was 19.
So you don't have any money in savings? Fred was in the list of people with money >>>in<<< the bank.
Oh, BTW, I'm an upholsterer. I can do that about anywhere, including a living room if need be.
Not much. We had to close one business when economy got rough and now are living on my income only, no unemployment when you've been self-employed. It's been hard the last 2 years and have really cinched up the belts on living expenses, etc. Finally decided to move next spring and go in with a brother in his business. I'll be planting grapes on 30 acres. Wish me luck. My back is not as young as it used to be. It will be fun though, a new adventure.
Awesome.. I hope you make a ton of money and have fun doing it!!
How do you remove personhood and retain the ability to sue a company or indict a company for crimes?
State so explicitly in an amendment.
It's worth a try, but maybe in legislation rather than an amendment. The goal of course, is to target corporate money as speech, that was what SCOTUS gave them with that. Money as free speech for campaign contributions. It is the biggest obstacle to campaign finance reform.
And in my opinion will require more than mere legislation to prevent. Thus and amendment.
I really like how this thread turned out.. It remained pretty damn mellow...
Well the money would technically come from individuals in the form of a tax right? Otherwise how would you fund publicly financed elections.
That is an interesting point.. When we file our taxes in WI, there is a check mark to donate to the election fund.
I'm totally fine with this, you just make it sound like the money comes from no where in the OP.
Hey, not every idea starts out complete..
Agreed 100%.
Many of us do not appear to agree on many things like free trade vs regulated markets or the best way to bring jobs back to the US. This however i think is one of the few talking points you will get a agreement from nearly everyone.
Obama, Romney, Cain, Perry, fill in the blank with whatever name you like. Republican or Democrat . . . The current system in place no longer serves the people. The sooner people realize this goes beyond party lines the better chance we will have at changing a system that has failed the majority of Americans.
That is what I have been trying to say on other postings and OWSers get pissed off.
They get really pissed off when I bring up the fact that Obama is a huge beneficiary of Wall Street.
YES! This is the one demand!
Just curious, how did you find out about this demand? It took me at least a week of reading the forums to know this is the one.
A woman at work told me that OWS stands for this. She could be full of hot air as I have not heard it officially expressed, but I kind of believe her.
A few conservative friends of mine also agree with this idea.
This sounds like the best starting point, remove big money as the predominant factor in politics. If the OWS movement moves the bar in this area, that would be a gigantic success.
Yes it is in my opinion.. This is something that even a conservative, like myself agrees with.
i think 99% + would agree... probably this should be THE focus... i think it's unlikely that any single other thing would be as widely agreed upon
Yes, I am sick and tired of voting for puppets instead of politicians!
i agree
Sum money is needed but it should be capped at 20 bucks or so. And funders shouldn't be allowed to double dip in multi parties
Yes, some money is needed. But when you have too much money flowing for returned favors, and that goes for all parties.
Yeah 20 bucks is ok. Obama is not going to return a favor for 20 bucks.. hahahah
Yeah and most people would give 20 if it meant sumthing. Politicians would be busting ass to make everybody happy not just there big donors,
sweet, take part in this poll http://blog.richardkentgates.com have many voices, add your to it :)