Forum Post: how to contribute?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 6, 2011, 8:58 p.m. EST by JuliusFries
(4)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I've been thinking how I can contribute my part to what you guys are doing. Given what I do with most of my time, I'm a Ph.D. student in economics, I decided that I'd like to offer a workshop to anybody who's interested in the knowledge that I have to offer. The title of the workshop would be something along the lines of "A Marxist Perspective on the Causes of the Current Economic Situation". Please get in touch to let me know, how we could set this up. In solidarity.
Julius, it's been 31 minutes. Surely they teach you how to type at NYU or Princeton, or wherever you are studying.
OK, I'll start.
We all know that unions came into being due to horrible working conditions during the Industrial Revolution, right? Well, not quite, but we will assume for a moment that this is the case.
Over the years working conditions improved to such a point that you could show up at a UAW plant during the 1970’s and make about $70 per hour (inflation adjusted) to assemble automobiles. Everything worked great for a while and the public paid far higher prices for cars than they should have. Union workers had a great life- huge paychecks, medical & dental insurance, golden pensions. Many retired at age 50 without a care in the world.
Then a funny thing happened in the 1980’s. An Ohio company, Cincinnati Milacron, developed some of the world’s best robotic assembly machines. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler attempted to purchase this equipment they were threatened by the unions with violent strikes. In fact, it took over 7 years for the first robot to be installed in a US auto plant thanks to union bullying. The result- Honda and Toyota’s dominance of the auto industry.
There were other results too. General Motors was sucked dry by the unions, culminating in its eventually bankruptcy. This was not your typical bankruptcy, mind you, it was the first bankruptcy in US history (that I am aware of) where the rule of law was disregarded. Creditors who were owed money by GM in the form of bonds were told by President Obama that they were “rich investors”. These investors, who were mostly pension funds, were offered about 8 cents on the dollar (even though their claims were in front of union pension claims).
Does this seem like an appropriate way for government to intervene in the labor markets?
I'm still waiting.....
I propose we start the debate by discussing how the unions destroyed GM
Julius,
I would love to have a debate sometime. I was a PhD student in finance many years ago and have a completely different perspective than your own. Please let me know if you are interested. Mike (Libertarian/Conservative)
Sure. Let's exchange some arguments. At the level of Marxist vs. Libertarian really nothing much has been said. Theoretical labels are useful, but they take you only so far. Are you actually in Ohio, or is there any chance of meeting you in the Financial District. However, if you're idea of a debate is to embarrass the other side, I'm not sure this is worth my time.
Yes, I'm from Ohio. I went to Ohio State many years ago. I'd love to speak in person, but I ca't get to NYC any time soon. I wanted to protest the movement, but family matters come first. I was just kidding about the embarrassment- just bluster. I am sure you are a good person with genuine beliefs, I just have a problem with Marxism in general. My wife was raised in the USSR.
I would be happy to do it right here, if you would like. I suggested starting with the unions, but you are free to select a topic. Thanks, Mike
Unions it is. I think collective bargaining is a legitimate strategy for negotiating wage contracts. That being said, it doesn't always lead to optimal outcomes. Ultimately, the employer-employee relationship is one of cooperative conflict, or conflictual cooperation - whatever side of it you want to emphasize. Employers have a certain interest in their employees identifying with the company, employees on the other hand certainly don't want their company to go out of business.
Ok, thank you. Do you think the collective-bargaining template has been good for our companies and their employees (please see GM above)? Do you think it is a good system for our public educational system?
It seems to me that it has inflated the cost of building schools and educating our children to the point that public secondary education has become too expensive. My kids' school system has 3 kindergarten teachers earning over $85,000 per year for 7.4 months of work. The equivalent wage on the east coast is about $120,000. Do you feel this is appropriate?
I think there are case where collective bargaining has been good for companies, employees and society in general and there are case where it hasn't been. One can argue at length about GM, in general I think one would not find any significant correlation between unionisation levels and coorporate failures, or, more broadly speaking, economic growth.
Yes, the public education system has become expensive. Then again, I think educational occupations are a very important part of developing a society. Discussions about what kind of remuneration for what kind of occupation are appropriate or not are a relatively mute point, since the wage is determined by the market. (If you want to discuss whether unions distort market outcomes, I'm up for that.)
Moreover, the public as well as the privat, not-for-profit university education system has spiralled completely out of control as well. I teach as an adjunct in a couple of different colleges, no unions there, but tuition levels are insane.
My main critique of unions is that, by design, they care about keeping their members employment and thus have to act against the interests of unemployed workers.
Sorry, had to leave for a few moments
It is not a mute point. Wages are not determined by the market, they are determined by union reps negotiating against School Boards. School Boards members are not generally professional negotiators.
Unions care about one thing- union dues. That is their life blood.
Of course you can argue about the correlation between unionization and business failures. Union companies are not as successful as non-union shops. Show me any unionized company in the past 20 years that has outperformed similar non-union companies. It simply doesn't exist. That may help explain the large drop in union membership over the past few decades.
I think your contribution to the movement could be wiping the floor with me in a debate. I don't think that will happen, though.
If this is supposed to be funny, then it is not my kind of humor.
It is not supposed to be funny.
Don't waste your time. This won't be lasting much longer.
Besides.... Most of these protesters are going out of their way to pretend that they are not Marxists.
It never hurts to embarrass a Marxist!