Forum Post: How Stupid Can These People Get?
Posted 11 years ago on June 4, 2013, 4:47 p.m. EST by shoozTroll
(17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Apparent pretty darn stupid.
Here he is in a State that's eschewed unions just about forever and a move that drove down wages to the point were women were FORCED into the workplace, and now he blames that for America's "mediocrity"
Not to mention the constant attack on women's rights in the south.
What's this guy been smoking? Crack, with that guy from Toronto?
Or is it just too much moonshine?
[Deleted]
What do you partially agree with him on?
Just curious, as I can't find a thing to agree with him about.
This guy is living in the Stone Age! The days of women’s rights are long over and it should stay that way. Women belong in the workplace paying their fair share not staying home raising kids. There is no way we can achieve a successful progressive society if we let people like Phil Bryant put women back on a pedestal and give them back the right make these choices. All must participate in the workplace for the good of the all. Phil Bryant and others like him must be stopped! We have worked too hard to assure generations of women that Work brings freedom and Work liberates.
"The days of women’s rights are long over and it should stay that way."
That's one of the most pointlessly confused statements ever made in here.
Wasn’t there a news article a few days ago that said about 40% of households the wife now makes more than the husband; and that was causing a lot of husbands to have some emotional issues. Maybe things aren’t as clear as we’d like to believe.
You interpreted that incorrectly. It said that women are the primary breadwinner in 40% of the households. Unfortunately that's due to the number of single parents in households, not women making more then men. It's 15% that are wives or partners in households and in 25% of households the income comes from single mothers.
The governor should have known it doesn't make too much difference if mom works or not, a bigger factor in education is if there are two adults at home.
I stand corrected. Single parents need all the support we can give them. I’ve always thought one way OWS could get some positive attention would be to try to coordinate cheaper daycare and after school care. That would be a outstanding accomplishment. The government fails miserably in that area.
If you choose to have children , you , not the govt are responsible for them.
I agree 100%. But when you can’t afford child care what do you do? Whether you like it or not, one way or another, it will eventually become a government problem. It would be great if we could see into the future and know ahead of time if we should have kids, but we can’t.
It wasn’t that long ago there weren’t many day care centers. There were family, friends and neighbors who watched each others kids. The church even played a roll. But no more, no it HAS become an issue the government has to deal with.
If you cant afford child care then why have children? The decision to have a child is an enormous one, not to be taken lightly. The govt is not the answer .
Most people don't :decide" to have kids. It just happens. I agree it shouldn't be a government responsibility, but unfortunately it too often is a government issue, including welfare, child care credits, housing assistance and the list goes on. It's irrelevant to say government shouldn't be involved. The fact is they are involved.
It just happens? Really? Are they ignorant of biology? Dont know about birth control?
Horny people don't think. It's that simple. I suspect most pregnancies are a surprise..
Correction,........Stupid people dont think.
Well we agree there is an abundance of stupid people. But you can't fix stupid.
No, you can't. That's also why there are so many democrats.
hee hee, Actually I was thinking not enough Libertarians.
Agreed.
There's no reason for government to be involved. Why are they involved? It's no more the government's role to raise children than it is the taxpayers responsibility to provide support of someone else's child. Such thoughts are absurd.
R U a shrugging Ayn devotee?
I've never read her, no. But the welfare state that enables single head of household has proven a detriment to both women and children, not to mention the drain on society. Years ago my mother in law supported five without welfare; my best friend's mother supported eight without welfare. It just shouldn't be. And I would venture to bet that if this were an entirely Caucasian society, a world with little or no diversity, it wouldn't be, because we would not extend this compassion to our own unless the circumstance was extreme and deserving of our compassion. Even then, help would not arrive via government.
What the war against the American worker has not been extreme? This not taking into account the economic fuck-up caused by wallstreet that has cost millions there jobs or small business! Years ago was a different economic world entirely.
You're saying that because this government has exported our jobs, and encouraged illegals to undermine labor, that the state must assume responsibility for our children? Are you serious? They can't even do school lunches right.
Who? Exported the jobs? The government? No - they allowed it - but it was/is the corp(se)oRATions that have/are exported/exporting the work.
It appears our government is actively engaged in the export of jobs.
Some things stay the same
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2337177/I-young-ambitious-Deadbeat-dad-22-children-14-women-says-loves-kids-hes-proud-legacy-live-on.html
Workers are powerless against employers if they do not work together. The decline of union participation rates is directly related to a rise in income inequality. See this graph:
http://www.epi.org/news/union-membership-declines-inequality-rises/
I've been trying to explain this to some folks around here, and some of them just don't get that simple glaring fact.
Unions are essentially at premise level basically the lobby group for the "little man" that negotiates minimum wage and decent wage levels.
Why is that necessary? Because corporations in general aren't that much interested in paying higher wages than they absolutely have to since they are profit oriented, sometimes to please incredibly gready ceo's, to keep the shareholders happy and at the bare minimum to keep the business going and the wheels turning.
Unions can also intercede in legal cases where a worker gets illegally fired or have their rights as an individual infringed in the workplace, and to facilitate agreements towards improving those rights, like decent compensation for overtime, aswell as providing benefits after losing jobs that you pay into via subscription to the union.
Without agreements and lobbying like that, corporations just set whatever rule they want, regardless how inhumane or insensitive, and if you don't like it you get canned. And that's not healthy.
A good example of a workforce completely lacking of unions are chinese sweatshops/factory workers, that's what ultimately happens without a lobby organization for employees. In those places even speaking about unions carries a hefty penalty of some form. And we all know the examples of how they are treated, factories with suicide nets, people sleeping at the factory in bunks 6 in each room and so on.
So, that beings said. When you have to explain to some people why unions are necessary, isn't it then fairly obvious why the US minimum wage is almost unliveable? And why the US unlike the rest of the western world, leads by having the LEAST mandatory vacation days in a year.
But yeah as per the link in the OP i find it rather spectacular how someone can switch the blame in such an outrageous fashion. Even if people on minimum wage worked the very life out of them, they couldn't get out of "mediocrity" when the salary doesn't pay the bills.
And if it doesn't even give that, how are they supposed to afford further education that could give them an advantage in the workplace, let alone buy various goods and services to boost the economy and create new businesses?
Rob a bank?
Amazing how some can sit in their jaccuzi with their in many cases ill gotten gains, telling others they are mediocre and should just work harder? And it strikes an ironic chord when it's someone whos salary is paid by taxpayer money.
And it's very well and good that he suggests that the parents should be there more for their children, and teach their children and nurture their minds with that "little bit of time". But it's hard if they can't afford to do so.
Because that's about wages not being reasonable, there's a reason "mom and dad" has to work more.
Also i doubt very much that it has anything to do with the financial crisis and QE infinity.
But i guess it's easier to just pin it all on the little guy, instead of going up against the establishment and risk your career by doing right by people.
"Don't worry about the fat cats that rob everybody" he seems to say,
"Let me tell you instead about the little mouse that got stuck in the cream and as he struggled to get out he churned it all to butter, you go be that little mouse my friend, don't be mediocre".
But why is it people have to struggle at the brink of starvation to get out of "mediocrity"? Whilst other nations don't have that problem since they have higher wages so people actually have food in their stomach and a roof over their house? Enough money to pay for education or perhaps even free or incentivized education in some cases. You know, some actual equal opportunity and actual financial mobility.
There's a reason why some countries overall are faring better than others, it probably has something to do with them treating eachother better, and having laws and regulations and union rules in place to facilitate that.
And why is it that ceo's in the US who sit in their cushy office doing little but delegating work around earn in some cases 350 times more than some of their workforce, and this is perfectly reasonable? Seems like there's enough to go around to improve the salaries quite substantially with the shareholders and ceo's still having an exhuberant living standard.
But tell me about that little mouse again, the one who was taught how unions are bad, how was it it went? Or did his job get outsourced to china because he wanted a salary that could afford him not to starve whilst he was struggling for his life to churn the cream to butter?
They make him watch a film made by union actors.
http://gawker.com/5811371/heres-the-cheesy-anti+union-video-all-target-employees-must-endure
It's the whole rugged individual thing. It worked really well to create this nation, but it doesn't work well for it's ongoing health. People need to work together, especially employees, in a capitalist economic system because the balance of power is unfairly in the hands of the employer.
Rugged individualism negates community. Good when you want to push West, not so good when human beings need to come together to fight TPTB.
Like the rest of we humans, that unions consist of, they are not perfect, but they did create a booming middle class and offered at least a stop gap to the corporate control of EVERYTHING.
The fine points can be argued ad infinitum, but as unions lost membership, the middle class was weakened.
The 99% are the working class & unless we come together in as many ways as possible then 'if you ask what the world is going to look like, it’s not a pretty picture. Unless people do something about it. We always can.' - http://www.nationofchange.org/humanity-imperiled-1370439071 by Noam Chomsky.
Never Give Up Occupying! Solidarity to the 99%, wherever we may be living in this 'beautifulworld' and whatever 'shooz' we may be wearing on whatever journey we are on because we're all in the same boat.
The thing is, only workers can unionize. We can protest in the streets all day, and plan walkouts, etc. But it comes down to the workers at that specific place, in that field, etc... Will they organize? Will they do what it takes to get it done?
"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." - Malcolm X
I think that quote resonates with much of what we are protesting about. You can have organizations like Forrespect.org get the ball rolling, push from the outside, but ultimately it needs to happen from within.
And I realize not everyone is ready to go spit in managements face and tell them to fuck off...they have families to feed, bills to pay, etc.. But honestly thats what it takes. It takes people saying "I dont give a fuck, either do this or Im out of here." And it takes them to do that in groups.
The fact that the Waltons have more wealth than the bottom 40% of America is appalling.
What is also appalling is the amount of people who go there constantly to give them their money.
The ability of a nation to organize, on any level- politically, unions, communities, health, schools, etc.. Im not sure what that determinant is.
Thoughts?
Well, I really agree with you. I, personally, have told employers, no, I won't do that, and, no, I won't work for that. It pisses me off that so many Americans are willing to work for such meager wages. It is easy to say that they should just say no, though, because what has happened here is exactly what TPTB want. They have created an indebted society that must work for whatever wage is offered in order to simply survive. People live in fear, fear that they won't be able to provide for themselves and their families, so they say thank you for whatever s--t is tossed their way. It's pathetic.
Now, unions serve a purpose as an organizing group and the statistics totally show that workers need to organize together. Do they need to organize in unions? Probably not. But, if they don't organize formally, then workers need to strengthen from within their very souls and stand up for what is right. That is a difficult thing in this country. Americans are so brainwashed in a loopy dream that their country is perfect that they even refuse to ask politely for anything, let alone really complain about how screwed up things are.
I know someone who just accepted a job for $8 an hour. This person is a college graduate. I kept my mouth shut, but I wanted to scream. WTF? Why are you accepting that? Tell them to stick it up their ass! But, people are convinced that today this is as good as it gets. And, what happens is the wealthy, like the Waltons, run off with all the cash. The joke is on us.
We can start with unions, but really, every freaking employee, exempt, non-exempt, union, non-union, needs to start standing up for their rights.
Exactly.
-1 is there a wage slave employer looking in?
That is such an important comment above ( http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-stupid-can-these-people-get/#comment-977860 ) that really we all should read it and reflect upon it ... often & no damn wonder that Corporate Shills hate 'beautifulworld' - in more ways than one. I used my 'twinkle' already before 'ProblemCauser' and the shills struck bw's comment but I hope more here will show some solidarity.
spero meliora ...
Yep - BW can tell it like it is - I twinkled that comment as well - she speaks so well that she is a lightning-rod for attack by the shills/sell-outs/trolls.
''What has happened here is exactly what TPTB want. They have created an indebted society that must work for whatever wage is offered in order to simply survive. People live in fear, fear that they won't be able to provide for themselves and their families, so they say thank you for whatever s--t is tossed their way. It's pathetic.'' !!! So true that it hurts !! G*d damn it !
Yep DKAt and if the shills can stinkle & we have twinkled, then relevant bw quotes as well as solidarity are then very much in order - not to mention - some links :
multum in parvo ...
Very good article to share - Thx
DKAtoday @DKAtoday
Extra! Extra! Rich Corp Execs Shut Down the NLRB! Then and Now http://truth-out.org/news/item/16794-extra-extra-rich-corp-execs-shut-down-the-nlrb-then-and-now …
Consider
Evil
Is
Real
Example =
Corp(se)oRATions
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''Unions serve a purpose as an organizing group and the statistics totally show that workers need to organize together. Do they need to organize in unions? Probably not. But, if they don't organize formally, then workers need to strengthen from within their very souls and stand up for what is right. That is a difficult thing in this country. Americans are so brainwashed in a loopy dream that their country is perfect that they even refuse to ask politely for anything, let alone really complain about how screwed up things are.'' Quotations aside, thanx D & in solidarity @ u & bw and 'workers associations' everywhere :
dum spiro, spero ...
Very good food for thought - and points out hypocrisy in any system of governance. Exploitation of the worker must be removed.
DKAtoday @DKAtoday
A Socialism for the 21st Century http://truth-out.org/news/item/16797-a-socialism-for-the-21st-century …
Food
4
Thought
whatever the system
Exploitation of the worker
must be removed
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''We can start with unions, but really, every freaking employee, exempt, non-exempt, union, non-union, needs to start standing up for their rights.'' (bw) and this is really best done when there is 'freedom of association' and 'free collective bargaining'. The Corporations are at their happiest when workers are atomised, demoralised and disunited & thus also consider :
ipsa scientia potestas est ...
Yep - you are preaching to the choir. Right to Work - being their major offensive in removing all of the rights of every single worker.
'Right to work' = right to divide, rule and laugh all the way the bank! The ONLY 'rights' that the avaricious CorpoRATions are interested in are their rights to keep exploiting us. Lol re. ''preaching to the choir'' and we all should sing louder and go join right-wing-nut sites perhaps. Any suggestions? And also consider :
fiat lux ...
me me me MEEEE
Doe Rae Me Fa So La Ti Doeeeee Ti La So Fa Me Rae Doeeeee
If I had a hammer I'd.................................................
But, of course. There are several, I'm sure.
Worthless pieces OS.
The 99% Conglomerate is the answer.
I'mmm ... Tellinya!
How's that repeal of "right to work" coming along in Florida?
You have NO concept of what has been arrayed against unions and bargaining in general these days.
This post proves it.
Go back to the conspiracy theories of the John Birch society.
You have previous union experience. I suggest you start using in a productive manner rather than attack people who are out already doing it.
I'll take that for a no, you're not doing a thing, or you would have answered the question.
As usual, you're assumptions are just that, assumptions.
I'll make my own assumption at this point.
You've never spent a single day in your life protecting 100's of employees from attacks by corporate management.
You haven't a clue.
But you DO have a clue on it, right? So my point is that instead of attacking me constantly why dont you find a way to help the unions that are left get better organized?
Do you support Forrespect.org?
Excuse me???
You've ignored EVERY attack on unions so far.
Right to work's got to go.
And wait one fuckin' minute.
You call me names every chance you get....even in PMs.
So don't give me that I attack you crap.
Let's hear you start saying things that actually support unionization.
Not dare people to form, or advance one in a "right to work "environment".
Besides, I've seen YOU post links to the John Birch Society and breitbart, so please don't get off asking about what I support.
I know that I support the 99%, and that the 99% is in sore need of support for increasing unionization.
When "right to work" was forced down the throat of the State of Michigan, OWS cared, as did many forum users. You made a comment about the lyrics of hip hop.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/lansing-occupy-capitol-d11/
So please, don't try and play me like that.
Keep it up, time is ticking. Do you have any advice on union organizing or are you just going to keep making mindless accusations? This group could use all the help they can get.
http://forrespect.org/
Is that supposed to be a veiled threat??
"time is ticking" "keep it up"?
I'll say this just once more, they are doomed to fail in a "right to work" environment.
I know you don't think it matters. But it does.
Oh, and as far as your continued attempts to belittle me?
I've already told you several times.
I'm in a family situation that prevents me from being as active as I'd like, and knowing that you know that and yet you constantly attempt to belittle me because of it, is the MOST insulting thing you've done to me so far.
I've seen you do the same thing to others too.
so really?
WHY DO YOU KEEP ATTACKING ME?
And why do you so love "right to work"?
And Ill say this for the 400th time.. THEY ARE NATIONAL.
Im not belittling you. Im challenging you to take what you know and apply it, instead ranting and raving on the internet all day long. If me and you were at a protest we would get along fine, for the most part, imo.
I'll say this for the 500th time.
"Right to work" will weaken them.
That`s what it does. That was it's aim, to weaken and destroy unions, and it's been VERY effective..
Why did you insult me again?
You constantly bait me to play your game of insults.
While it was you who babbled about hip hop lyrics in an OWS thread against "right to work".
It's all just you changing subjects, because you don't really like unions.
How about a good word on the UAW?
The Teamsters?
Teachers unions?
The 250,000 that occupied the Wisconsin Rotunda, in support of public unions?
We had teachers unions, Im very good friends with a very talented, imo, teacher. They are getting fucked. Teaching to tests, defunded schools and kids that dont know basic manners.
Nothing is more effective than the ability of people to stand together. The power truly is in the people. Always has been. Just very hard to get them to excersise it.
Even where right to work hasnt been passed, unions are in shambles. Leaders sold them down the river, the politicians shipped their jobs overseas, and the Fed is destroying their money.
Obviously right to work is anti union legislation. Its why its such a big deal.
But this isnt limited to just right to work states. Its national. Its everywhere.
What do union WORKERS, not leaders, need to do in order to regain their say in whats going on with labor in this country?
there simply are not enough jobs to go around
nor id there a need for those jobs to distribute resources
If that's what you call support and understanding?
There's no point in going on.
You don't understand unions and you have no concept of how "right to work" has screwed them over.
I've provided plenty of links over the months and like so many other subjects you don't want to even consider................You ignored them and now you ask for a full explanation.
And in the mean time you're off in another thread insulting people.
Like I said before. It's your best thing.
I'll wait on those good comments about the UAW, Teamsters, AFL-CIO, and I expect to turn blue.
You either have NO clue, or you are profoundly anti-union.
ROFLMAO trashy-can a good moderator.
I found that statement hilarious too.........................:)
I had to stop typing until I quit laughing.
As long as it remains absent from here I will be happy.
Don't count on it lasting.
It never does.
Ow my stomach hurts - I have not laughed so hard in a long time.
It's his claim of multiple PhDs, though that really gives me hee haws.....................:)
I see he's not around yet today. Makes me think he's in Florida and stuck under Andrea.
trashy-can only tries to use minutia as a cover for it to slide in it's misinformation.
You mean like what a great mod he was???
LOL
The place was a mess, while all he did was chase renneye around.
He forgets, some of us were here in those days.
I have a feeling that he is a roofing scabber. Would explain why he gets all bent out of shape over fair/living wage. He wants to underbid to get the job and so needs people who will work for less to make a crew.
He claims to be a house flipper too, and then there's his PR/advertizing concern.
Mostly though, he just rants about and attacks and insults liberals.
He'll start a new thread to get out of the various corners he backs himself into. Kinda like they tell teabagge(R)s to do in their internet disruption video. I guess that's why he gets so defensive when someone comes out and calls him a right winger, unaware that people are aware of that video.
I don't know about all that, but I have seen that video, and those tactics get used all the time against me and others on the forum.
Trashy is really good at them.
trashy-can should be - it has been practicing for over a year now.
trashy-can also likes to claim many forms of expertise. Pathetic really.
Trash is an expert on logical fallacy.........he IS one.
You'll excuse me, if I don't find niggeling arguments over the minute details of esoteric political systems, productive on any level.
I live in the real World.
that site totally jammed my computer
How so? It never bothered any of mine.
gave my a time out circle for a couple minutes
then popped some petition
I have no idea what a "time out circle" is.
I'm trying to install Ubuntu Linux on a laptop though and I'm not getting anywhere.
Did you sign the petition?
no
my name is on the internet already
What do you know about Linux?
nothing
my pc works fine
I think it is the default or majority platform
What's a majority platform?
the platform most people would access an internet from
OIC.
Time to reinstall Windows then.
I hope it's not Windows XP.
there are a lot of platforms these day
I'm not sure there is a majority
what with all the mobile devices
None of that describes whatever issue you are having with your "majority platform".
you are the king of dumb so you tell me.
Obviously, even dumber than you, although perhaps slightly more analytical................
keep telling yourself that but you still can't even see the new world order.
Sure I do.
I get a laugh out of Alex Jones............You think he's real, I think he's a loony.....
And then the Masons will come and take over the World with clown cars, and agenda 21.
How do they fit so many in those tiny things??