Forum Post: How should the OWS movement decide to spend the money the movement is raising?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 12:11 a.m. EST by occupier35988
(11)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I'm a little concerned upon hearing the OWS has raised ~$300,000. Not because I think whomever is running the show will misspend it, but because it cannot be spent in a way that best suits the interests of the protesters as a whole.
I have an idea to decide how this money should be spent. We create a forum. Not like the one we're currently on, but a forum where we can create polls and vote on nominated ideas. We would need a week to set up the forum, get the word out, and give anyone who is a part of the movement or in support of the movement time to register and figure out how to post.
The process would be simple. We'd all throw out ideas. Run up the page count on a thread. Anything OWS people want, put it in there. From there, we have a selected groups of admins/moderators scour the thread and record the ideas. Some time later, this will be put to a poll which will be open for a pre-determined amount of time. Perhaps a day or two. Sooner wouldn't allow all to vote, and later would encourage people to register more than one account. From there, we could use the forum as a discussion tool on how we can feasibly accomplish what the donations are decided to go towards.
The core group of 6 guys currently running the show would have leeway to spend a certain portion based on what they're currently looking into (regarding an apartment near OWS).
What are your thoughts on this?
Food.
Everyone needs to eat.
Unless they happen to be ghosts.
Absolutely, there is no debating this. Costs concerning food are necessary. But I really do think that unless there is some accountability for this money, a divide in the movement is possible and/or intense scrutiny from the media.
I strongly suggest an online voting system like liquid feedback or if you'd like I'll create something custom for this purpose. This is my area.
I just started following this movement, but I've been talking about direct democracy for some time.
Perhaps this movement could use it to start speaking with a strong voice.
Exactly. Defined goals. Reasonable discussion on how to accomplish them.
Are you in the Information Technology industry?
Personally I have 20 years of web development (yeah that's right, way back to the beginning) experience. I'd be interested to work with some others to build something "open source" for the OWS movement. Have you heard of Liquid Feedback?
Personally, no. I'm more of an idea guy. I can't be of assistance in this way.
I think it's a good start. At least it will help continue the discussion.
Have you seen this video? I think everyone who supports OWS should see it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX1N3opw5eI
I forward this.
Anything over $100 being spent is voted on at the GA. The apartment thing might be for 6 representatives/spokespeople who would need to be cleaned up and such. The story is just that a story. I really saw no source material for any of it.
Right, but there are plenty of OWS protesters around the country who have attended various OWS protests but can't be at the GA's every night. This could unite the movement and create common goals so the movement doesn't fall flat on its face a month from now.
As a mainstream guy, who has been in touch with some of the issues presented by this movement for the last 15 plus years, my thoughts are that this movement must reach out to those who cannot show up and protest, but have a way of showing support. My thought has been to identify U.S. corporations that use tax havens, subsidiaries in Bermuda/Caymans and elsewhere to siphon money away from payment to U.S. treasury. These evasions increased in the last 15 years and many of the companies involved are companies that sell products and have stores in the U.S.. Targeted "sanctions" (boycotts) against these companies, backed by factual research will help highlight this issue. This is a mainstream issue and sore spot amongst the middle class and has been featured in several main stream press outlets for some time now, but it never gains traction for long. Go figure, GE is a culprit, they own NBC, Time Warner too has offshore subsidiaries as does Coca Cola, Best Buy, Target, Pepsi, Home Depot and a host of other companies identified in a GAO report, http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09157.pdf. There can be little basis it seems for these companies to have subsidiaries in these localities except for gaining tax advantages. Many, if not all of these companies impact our infrastructures, from roads, ports, airports, FAA staff, to courthouses that uphold their contractual relations, to any number of other impacts their activity have on our systems, governanace and need for regulators/oversight, etc.. The current national debates discuss it in terms of closing "loopholes" and the debate in this area has shifted already in a short period of time. From McCain, in 2008 decrying the high corporate tax rate, to a recognition that corporations often avoid paying any real taxes to the U.S. treasury. Where does this fit in with the money, ad campaigns, decent youtube videos that may go viral, radio spots, quality printing of posters that get this message across, research to get this information assembled in a unassailable form. Unless this movement get's practical and can sweep in a broader spectrum of people through getting participation of more people who cannot leave their jobs and obligations to participate, I am concerned it will be lost, become old news and in desperation to remain relevant in the news take on more risks that turns it violent. There is support out here, but it is difficult to ascertain or connect with a particular message. The media is not painting this effort with much coherence in terms of a central messasge and while there may be some tactical advantages of not being organized, it needs to get practical fast, or it will be lost. Money understands one language, money, and hitting these corporations at their bottomlines, with an issue that would enjoy wide support amongst the many, who can also show that support through "sanctioning" these companies, is my suggestion. Good Luck!
As a mainstream guy, who has been in touch with some of the issues presented by this movement for the last 15 plus years, my thoughts are that this movement must reach out to those who cannot show up and protest, but have a way of showing support. My thought has been to identify U.S. corporations that use tax havens, subsidiaries in Bermuda/Caymans and elsewhere to siphon money away from payment to U.S. treasury. These evasions increased in the last 15 years and many of the companies involved are companies that sell products and have stores in the U.S.. Targeted "sanctions" (boycotts) against these companies, backed by factual research will help highlight this issue. This is a mainstream issue and sore spot amongst the middle class and has been featured in several main stream press outlets for some time now, but it never gains traction for long. Go figure, GE is a culprit, they own NBC, Time Warner too has offshore subsidiaries as does Coca Cola, Best Buy, Target, Pepsi, Home Depot and a host of other companies identified in a GAO report, http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09157.pdf. There can be little basis it seems for these companies to have subsidiaries in these localities except for gaining tax advantages. Many, if not all of these companies impact our infrastructures, from roads, ports, airports, FAA staff, to courthouses that uphold their contractual relations, to any number of other impacts their activity have on our systems, governanace and need for regulators/oversight, etc.. The current national debates discuss it in terms of closing "loopholes" and the debate in this area has shifted already in a short period of time. From McCain, in 2008 decrying the high corporate tax rate, to a recognition that corporations often avoid paying any real taxes to the U.S. treasury. Where does this fit in with the money, ad campaigns, decent youtube videos that may go viral, radio spots, quality printing of posters that get this message across, research to get this information assembled in a unassailable form. Unless this movement get's practical and can sweep in a broader spectrum of people through getting participation of more people who cannot leave their jobs and obligations to participate, I am concerned it will be lost, become old news and in desperation to remain relevant in the news take on more risks that turns it violent. There is support out here, but it is difficult to ascertain or connect with a particular message. The media is not painting this effort with much coherence in terms of a central messasge and while there may be some tactical advantages of not being organized, it needs to get practical fast, or it will be lost. Money understands one language, money, and hitting these corporations at their bottomlines, with an issue that would enjoy wide support amongst the many, who can also show that support through "sanctioning" these companies, is my suggestion. Good Luck!
Vote on how to spend at http://www.occupyr.com/treasury
Spend some on accounting software to keep track of the money flow. Set a good example of financial transparency for Wall Street.
Okay, I've set up a forum. Post your ideas on how you want the money spent, and we can vote on the ideas. We'll present these ideas to OWS as a suggestion on how we'd like the money spent.
http://www.occupyr.com/Treasury/
i've set up a forum with votable posts at http://www.occupyr.com/ check that out and let me know if you have requests.
Good concept. But I think we need something simple. People seek simplicity. I've been on the net for years and I wouldn't know where to even begin with that website. Something logical, that is straight forward, easy, and effective.
Also, thumbs way up on the forum idea. Make it happen!
Baby soap for washing out pepper-sprayed eyes (shit is no joke, its a facefull of hellfire.)
Pepper spray resistant goggles.
(Can you tell I don't want anyone going through the pepper spray experience?)
Food food food. Feed as many people as you can with this money.
How would prevent detractors from voting?
Detracting would be difficult when all the ideas are meant to suit OWS goals/interests.
You don't need a forum. We already have the CONSENSUS process.
Right, but there are plenty of OWS protesters around the country who have attended various OWS protests but can't be at the GA's every night. This could unite the movement and create common goals so the movement doesn't fall flat on its face a month from now.
The problem with your idea, although sounds great at first is that a direct democracy face to face allows us to come to conclusions that wouldn't necessarily lean towards the path of a vote. You see, a vote is too linear too static, too black and white. That is not what the movement is about. We form our GA's to hopefully, feel more connected and understand each others views and perhaps even in turn, change a potential "vote" into something more meaningful as a PEOPLE. The point of the CONSENSUS process is to allow not only a majority of the people to come into an agreement but to become aware of each others reasons and come to a more dynamic & deeper understanding of the process. :)
Food, prepare for the winter, and keep getting the message out. Also, have a treasurer that will assure accountability. Get consensus on the major points and push for a change in the financial and political infrastructure of our nation.
Yes.. :)
Organize and elect a National General Assembly to present a petition of grievances to the government. If the petition is ignored, mobilize and raise more money to elect a complete slate of legislative candidates for the 2014 elections.
To that end, please consider joining our OWS working group which had its first "live" meeting on 10-15-11 at the OWS NYC in Liberty Park following its announcement in the General Assembly.
The Working Group's email is the99declaration@gmail.com and the webpage is
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Michael S. Parsons, Working Group facilitator.
OWS facilitation needs to be made aware that this gentleman is presenting his online working group as having been approved by Saturday night's GA, and that members of the media are running with it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/18/occupy-wall-street-planning-convention_n_1018570.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/occupy-wall-street-has-plans-for-a-coordinated-national-gathering-2011-10
If, as according to the minutes posted on NYCGA, this was NOT approved by Saturday's GA, I suggest OWS media clarify the point for the reporters in question.
No sir,that is lie.
I asked permission to speak to the GA, I was put in the stack and at about 7:45 I addressed the GA, I told them about our entire platform including the National General Assembly and that we wanted to start an OWS Working Group, I was told I could and I announced it at the GA. We had the meeting afterwards of the Working Group..
The press then picked up on our webpage www.the99declaration.org. which we had up since 10-7 for the purpose of accepting edits and amendments.
THERE IS NO PROCEDURE IN THE OWS RULES TO APPROVE A WORKING GROUP. ANYONE CAN START ONE. I took the additional step of announcing it to the NYCGA. And to make matters worse, the woman who was keeping the minutes on 10-15-11 completely excised my appearance from the minutes as if I never appeared while leaving in all the other speakers. POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.
I have have lost all faith in the NYCGA, They are as corrupt as the government we are protesting.
The money doesn't seem intended to benefit all of the protesters.
The leaders of the movement are said to be looking to spend a good chunk of money for an apartment downtown near Zuccotti Park where they can live, sleep, and shower in comfort for the winter.