Forum Post: How OWS can mean something
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 16, 2011, 12:59 a.m. EST by ToddDunning
(89)
from Aliso Viejo, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
As a Tea Partier, the first thing we did was focus on a specific issue: the government bailouts of the banks, GM, TARP, Fannie Mae, stimulus and so on and so on. This allows us to answer questions clearly when asked what the Tea Party is about; a very big help.
Second, we don't protest private companies. They don't answer to protest. Government does. Government loses their jobs if we don't like what they do. Right?
Government makes rules and policies affecting private industry. They are answerable and accountable to the public. Banks are not.
Do you seriously think a banker gives a rat's ass about your camping and pissing in a public park? What, specifically, do you expect the board of directors of a major bank to do in response to OWS?
Are you answering with a sneer, like "They won't do shit!"???? Well, no shit Sherlock. So what the hell are you doing pissing and camping in the park?
We in the Tea Party are just amazed that OWS will not protest at the government level. We were able to straighten out the GOP and put their crazy spending to a stop. The GOP is now answerable strictly to us....because we went out to the government, not a frigging bank!
The Dems are not only laughing at you, they have just shipped your asses out of parks across the country. The most liberal mayors in the country have done just that and turned the cops out against you.
They think you're solidly on the Dem plantation, will never, ever protest them, and they can continue to spit on you as they please.
Well, the way I see it, the very reason to protest the large corporations and Banks is precisely because they don't give a shit, but Government is completely beholden to them.
Governments can be elected, corporations can't. If your congressman starts speaking against your interests, you and your townspeople can get him fired.
You can't do anything if Wal-Mart comes into your town and starts undercutting all the Mom and Pop stores with their cheap Chinese made junk. You can't do anything if Monsanto wants to start placing private detectives in your corn fields, to spy on you and sue you if they catch you growing their genetically engineered, 'patented' corn without their permission.
Government is -supposed- to be the watchdog that protects the people from getting screwed over by these oligarchs. Lately, these oligarchs have tried to make the government so weak and small that they aren't an effective check or balance against these huge corporations. In fact, Government is in the back pockets of these corporations.
Remove government altogether, and we would go back to a medieval feudal system, with the corporations as your new kings and us as the powerless serfs. No elections. No constitutional rights. You are now the property of the republic of Wal-Mart.
As far as protesting the GOP, what effect do you think it had? Has military spending been reduced? Does the USA really need to spend half it's tax dollars on defence?
What the Dems think isn't that important. Both parties are thoroughly corrupt and puppets of the corporations, and the banks.
Excellent points Zed, though the US spends 17% of the budget on defense. 48% on entitlements not including SS and Medicare.
Those of us here in our 30s and 40s have been through several recessions, and this is by far the worst. By a very long shot.
But the 2008 crash was triggered by a relatively small amout of mortgage defaults; only 3/10 of a percent. And still today, losses from bad mortgages are only several percent of the bank losses.
The vast majority of debt, both bank and public, is owned (incurred) by government today. It is now $4 billion per day that you guys in your twenties will have to repay. It is exactly what is happening in Europe, of course.
This recession (depression) has been caused by debt, not some home mortgages defaulting. Yes, I am being foreclosed myself, but that's due to my inability to get more paying work as a Californian. Everything would be peachy if had more paying work. Paying a mortgage is no different than paying rent; you can't pay, you gotta leave.
Yes, recessions are cyclical and this one will end. Productivity will return, people will be able to start buying things and we'll be in great shape.
However, the living hell my family and I have been through this last 3 years - and the same one you're probably suffering now - was specifically caused by the unbelieveable levels of debt incurred by our government, as the europeans are finding out now.
I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune, Todd.
I myself am not confident that this economic depression will ever end. I don't think that productivity will return. For one thing, most of America's manufacturing has been shipped overseas to China, Indonesia, etc.
At least in the great depression of the 1930s, the factories were still there but the doors were closed. When the economy got better, the doors were opened and everyone went back to work. Now though, all the factories have disappeared. There is no way that American workers would be wage competitive with workers in the third world.
The strange thing about debt, especially government debt, is that it was created when the power to create money was secretly shifted from the Government into the hand of private bankers on Jekyll Island in 1913. Private banks create money literally out of thin air, then give it to you as debt. You have to pay off this debt with real work, sometimes for the rest of your life. As you have unfortunately discovered, all that hard work to pay off your mortgage (in french 'Death pledge') doesn't guarantee you will get that house either.
Another strange thing about the debt? There is more debt than there is money available to pay it off. This is deliberate. So if you took all the money that existed in the world, it would only be 1/4 of the amount of debt in the world. Also, that debt is at compounded interest.
Isn't it strange how Congress could get billions for a war that few supported, but no money could be made available for health care, or to bail out failed mortgages? Why? Who makes these decisions? Why is killing children in foreign countries more important than saving the lives of children in your own country?
It may sound naive of me, but I think this massive debt could simply be cancelled by claiming it was made under fraudulent circumstances. Then, simply return the power of making currency back to a bank owned by the government. Make loans out to US citizens at no interest, or low interest. Now everyone can afford a house, afford to go to college, start up their own small business, etc.
I agree with you to an extent - but the original poster has a point. OWS needs to work within the existing system to effect change. As an engineer, I have to understand a problem before I can come up with a solution. I can't go sit in the lab and wait for things to start working. Also, life is just not bad enough for most Americans to rise up like the folks in the various middle east countries have. Frankly, we are not hurting enough, are cowards, are already living the dream, do not know how to contribute, or don't believe in the movement.
I am protesting in my own ways:
I'd love to rally behind this movement further if there were a real lead and goals of the movement. For every 1 of me, there's probably thousands that think the same.
The problems as I see it?
-Fractional reserve banking: A private bank loans out more money than it has in it's vaults, as reserve.
This gives banks the power to create 'money' out of nothing, then they give you this money as debt. You have to pay off this debt with something of real value, your labour. However, it's a fiat currency backed by nothing.
The Federal reserve is federal in name only, like Federal Express. They are a privately owned financial institution which loans out money to the US government, at interest, and expects the US government to pay them back.