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Forum Post: How many OWS people support ending the Fed?

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 29, 2011, 1:14 a.m. EST by freedomfighter777 (156)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

It seems like more and more on the streets how about this form?

31 Comments

31 Comments


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[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 13 years ago

I support Kucinich's HR 2990, which would end the Fed by putting money creation back under Congress via the Treasury which is Constitutional.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

a very significantly large fraction close to 70 percent, my guess, reading all the threads. the quirky question is whos a troll and whos with us. the trolls outnumber participants here 3 t o1.

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

So your saying the majority of OWS supporters are trolls in your opinion?

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

no, i'm saying that online in this forum there are more trolls than supporters of the movement. more trollspinning. i did not say that, you'd like to spin my words to that.

[-] 1 points by ddiggs690 (277) 13 years ago

Wait, this troll just told me that the Fed wasn't private. Was he lying?

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 13 years ago

Yes, he was.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

You complain they control you, yet you want to control them? Futile endless cycle...?

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

no control on either side this movement is biased on all of the 99% which would indicate open discussion I have not once on this forum stated any personal political opinions but I do believe in freedom of speech.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

What exactly is this 99%? America is a global power. Anyone who has even $5 in their pocket is richer than most of the world's population.

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

the 99% refers to the 99% of Americans we would not dare be arrogant enough to try to tell other countries what ideals to value. Americas government is being controlled by the financial sector.They have stripped us of our homes, sold out our currency to the federal reserve, they have tried to profit by putting the country in a perpetual state of war, they waste our taxpayers money to engage in nation building, and have let the corporate executives rob Americans with out prosecution, they have poisoned or food supply, they have relinquished our healthcare system to the hands of the pharmaceutical companies, for these reasons and many more is why the OWS movement seeks justice and change by fighting the 1% of America. I also agree America is a global power which is even more of a reason why action should be taken against such corruption because what America does effects the world.

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

the 99% refers to the 99% of Americans we would not dare be arrogant enough to try to tell other countries what ideals to value. Americas government is being controlled by the financial sector.They have stripped us of our homes, sold out our currency to the federal reserve, they have tried to profit by putting the country in a perpetual state of war, they waste our taxpayers money to engage in nation building, and have let the corporate executives rob Americans with out prosecution, they have poisoned or food supply, they have relinquished our healthcare system to the hands of the pharmaceutical companies, for these reasons and many more is why the OWS movement seeks justice and change by fighting the 1% of America. I also agree America is a global power which is even more of a reason why action should be taken against such corruption because what America does effects the world.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

The group's goal seems to be to destroy America from the inside. While I think it should be fixed, we all created the problems equally. We buy from companies, we pay taxes, we elected officials, we live in this country. Everyone is responsible. It is easy to pass the blame on the "12 Who Rule The World", but that is rationalizing, not being rational. One cannot solve problems that way. The economic crisis occurred at around the same time as the Great depression. In both cases everyone wanted the same economic model. Economics is a crap science doomed to fail. Want to fix it, don't be lazy; use calculus.

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

Yes I understand your point and I do agree that our addiction to credit and irresponsible ways are partly to blame however these people have spent decades deliberately manipulating the system buying politicians and screwing over the American people all in the name of profit. No individual has the power to wight them but together we definitely have the numbers. I feel that it is because of the very reason that it is our problem that we should all feel obligated to make a stand for change.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

The basic rule of nature is to strive for the most you can get and keep it and continue the process. Whether or not they spend their money or keep it doesn't matter. Our economic structure is constructed in a way that it eventually fails. Notice both big crashes were in October. Same mistake twice. Not quite deliberate. It's the math.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 13 years ago

The Fed was managed very admirably by Paul Volcker, turned into an extension of Ayn Rand by Alan Greenspan, and has done what it could under Mr. Bernanke.

You have to realize how close we came to the abyss....to ALL banks evaporating. The fed was throwing money everywhere that they could just to keep the deflationary spiral from worsening.

It is terribly complicated, and beyond the scope of this discussion, but the Fed has been a moderating force in our economy for 80 years and, without it, you might be in a bread line right now instead of on your computer.

The fed is tasked with promoting a stable currency, taming inflation, and dampening unemployment. The entire framework is Keynesian and it worked in every epoch except for 1974-1979 and 2000-2006. Keynes was a smart guy. When everyone is employed, wages rise, inflationary pressures pick up.....and the fed raises rates to slow things down. When everything sucks, unemployment rises, wages fall, and the fed offers money at low rates to stimulate borrowing and, hopefully, hiring.

That is their role in one paragraph. The Fed is comprised of a lot of very smart people who, except for Alan Greenspan, are not especially tied to a hardened ideology.

The fed is, much like the judicial branch, outside of the influence of politicians. That was intended....going all the way back to Hamilton's establishment of a national bank....as a safeguard against the possibility of a leader using monetary policy to juice the economy before an election.

The system is not perfect, and everyone loves a good conspiracy story, but the Fed is usually a boring little place.....except when you've had George Bush as a president for 8 years. My Lord, did that boy ever touch an endeavor that he did not bankrupt? Anyway, take it easy on the fed....focus upon corporate influence over our political process instead.

The fed, as unpopular as it may seem, has been the only arm of our government that has gone all out in trying to stimulate our economy and hiring.

[-] 1 points by sfsteve (151) 13 years ago

I entirely agree with you that the purpose of the fed is just as you say. But, I do not think that they are really doing their job. Whenever an economic bubble burst, it is a clear indication that the fed messed up in their very mission. Since the owners of fed shares are unknown, it seems naive to assume the members on the fed's board are genuinely committed to its mission in the first place. Who's to say they are not compromised by their own economic interests above those of the country?

This likely sounds like a conspiracy theory and I in fact do not really think there is outright corruption going on. It is far more likely that at times, they are simply inept or rigidly ideological, and that is what leads to their failures.

Either way, their operations should be much more transparent. If there are no conspiracies going on, great. But, when their deliberations are made public it stands to reason that under scrutiny their actions will be much less ideological and much more responsive to interests outside of Wall Street.

I say that fed transparency should be something the movement should focus on. In addition to trying to curb corporate influence over the political process.

By the way, congress is also tasked with taming inflation through tax policy. The IRS is controlled by congress and the fed is controlled by its board members. I don't see why these very intertwining functions are separated. What would be wrong with either letting the fed set tax policy or let congress set monetary policy? To fully meet the goals stated above, wouldn't it make since to allow every aspect to be decided on by the same people? Are there times when the fed is lowering interest rates to stimulate growth at the same time congress is increasing taxes that stymies growth, or times when the fed is raising interest rates to combat inflation at the same time congress is cutting taxes and increasing inflation? It seems counterproductive.

[-] 1 points by looselyhuman (3117) 13 years ago

Mostly true. I would say that strict Keynesianism doesn't rely on monetary policy as much as it does fiscal policy. Some Keynesians see monetary policy as powerless (the present situation seems to support that). I think countercyclical monetary policy may be somewhat effective in typical expand/contract cycles but during major events it falls flat. Anyway, minor gripe with an overall excellent post.

I think people are right to want the Fed to be more transparent, but many have accepted the Austrian/Ron Lawl/infowars ideological arguments against the Fed - which, obfuscated or not, are about limiting government power for non-economic reasons.

Also I would say monetary policy can be very powerful on the flip-side - when it messes up. It's one of those things we don't notice until there's a problem.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 13 years ago

The Fed was what replaced the Hamiltonian system: national credit would allow for money to be controlled by Congress, now it's controlled by private bankers.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 13 years ago

Do you want elected representatives controlling the printing of money?

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 13 years ago

It's not as simple as printing money. Under a credit system, government projects could be paid for by creating money for the projects rather than borrowing money or taxation.

On the other hand, money could also be pulled out of the system through taxation and decirculation, if inflation were harming the economy.

It's is a much more tenable way of dealing with the money system and it is best for a true republic.

[-] 0 points by puff6962 (4052) 13 years ago

The fed does all of those things and you don't want politicians anywhere near it.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 13 years ago

The Fed has proved its incompetence. Ben Bernanke nowhere near a printing press.

[-] 1 points by tarnfeathers (39) 13 years ago

Your on crack.

[-] 1 points by puff6962 (4052) 13 years ago

You simply don't understand how close to the abyss we were in 2008. I was investing in guns.....and I'm a bow hunter.

The fed has done everything that it can legally do to stimulate the economy while the house is blockaded by Republicans and teabaggers.

[-] 1 points by tarnfeathers (39) 13 years ago

No your on crack because your facts are wrong and conclusions are wacked.

[-] 1 points by GeorgeMichaelBluth (402) from Arlington, VA 13 years ago

Fail.

[-] 1 points by alfi (469) 13 years ago

Allow me to speak for all of us: ALL OF US!

[-] 1 points by reddy2 (256) 13 years ago

The average American does not understand the function and nature of the FED

They don't know why it's a problem.

They don't understand how printed money destroys their purchasing power

They don't understand how it affects them

Same goes for OWS

[-] 1 points by looselyhuman (3117) 13 years ago

Nope. Some transparency would be good though.

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

haha forum damn predictive text..lol