Forum Post: How do we stop this from happening again?
Posted 12 years ago on April 6, 2012, 9:24 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8342)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
http://www.economist.com/node/568512
and this
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=sjEqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SjAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6699,7850359&dq=budget&hl=en
and this
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,166926,00.html
and this
then this
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/08/25/budget.battle/index.html
Before we fix it this time tell me how we don’t just do this again?
there is exactly one place to start
only one
A constitutional amendment to
For a complete analysis of the amendment issue,
JOIN our OWS Working Group:
http://nycga.net/groups/restore-democracy
REGULAR MEETINGS:
Wednesdays 5:30-7:30PM @ 60 Wall St – The Atrium
Our OWS Working Group has one goal -
To support the OWS Declaration
and to do what polls show
80% of Americans want -
►Reverse the 2010 Supreme Court decision
..…Citizens United that enabled super-pacs
►Reverse the 1976 Supreme Court decision
..…Buckley that equated money is speech
►Eliminate the 1886 judicially created fiction
..…that corporations are people
We will attract candidates to …support an amendment, and we will attract voters to …support an amendment, and we will attract voters to support …candidates who support an amendment
it IS doing what 80% o f Americans already say they want
I agree this is an excellent effort and I hope OWS seeks out those that will support this and help them, while finding out who opposes change as well.....
BetsyRoss brought this back just for you why don't you want to chat?
Here you go Betsy.
Hey slammer come on by, tell me how messed up this post is, punk..
how about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTQ1WOC9RgY
The Reps did a great job with the economy in the 90's, but they let their resident idiot Bush ruin it all with his tax plan. While those who felt the greatest impact of the tax plan were the working people, it was not tempered with spending cuts and being thrust into war sure didn't help. Bush led the party to what it is today and they continue to pay a political price for his ineptitude.
uh excuss me Clinton was in large and in charge in the 90's
but we do agree that tax plan must go
So Congress didn't matter when Clinton was in office...
But it's all Congress' fault when Obama is in office?
I swear you don't even read what you type sometimes.
You know I just don't remember saying that much about Obama, maybe you could share the link?
But if you p[aid any attention to anything you would know that Obama did face a record number of filibusterers in the first two years, but I know you don't you GOP lovin' fool, and you would know something of Clinton's veto's but a GOP deniners like yourself, wouldn't know things like that.
in regards to patriot act, ndaa's, etc...
And Clinton's vetos... Where are Obama's vetos?
Big difference between Obama and Clinton first of all. Indefinite detention of American citizens laws is a big example.
I'm not a GOP denier. I just know it takes Republicans and Democrats to start a war.
It takes taking effective action to get things done, something you hope OWS never does.
Do you know what worse than not vetoing the Patriot Act extensions as president? Voting for it as a senator and then again as President. And then your DOJ let's off Goldman Sachs which is a bank who conveniently gave your administration over a million dollars to help get you elected.
Do you think Goldman Sachs is guilty of fraud? Or do you side with the banks and the corrupt government that let them off the hook?
And what are you talking about? You're implying I hope OWS never takes effective action? Where did you get that from? Now you're just making shit up.
I'm just going to start implying things about you that have nothing to do with what you said.
You like watching Desperate House Wives on the weekends and claim it's because of the excellent dialog.
Hey I forgot would go over that part where Romney is better or won't get in if we defeat Obama? I can't seem to find that anywhere, it's like you can't even make the case at all.,,,,,
Woh woh woh.... when the fuck did I ever say one good remark about Mitt Romney...? This is just more evidence of you pulling made up shit out of your ass.
Fuck Romney. Fuck Obama. Fuck Goldman Sachs. Fuck the Neocon Spy Agenda. Fuck the wars. Fuck the illegal drone strikes.
All these facts I'm saying about Obama is shit Romney full on supports. Romney is pro patriot act, pro spying on Americans. pro drone strikes. Pro goldman sachs. etc...
Obama and Romney both fully support the largest imprisonment of non-violent citizens in the world too. Fuck these corporate whores.
OK so now for the part where Romney won't take office if Obama don't?
People vote for real options and stop letting propaganda blind them from voting for real representatives. That's all it takes.
who are these people you speak of how are they doing 6 weeks out from the election?
They've been running this entire time actually. You know who they are and you ignore them because you love your propaganda funded by corporations, super pacs, and banks.
and yet when asked directly you choose not to answer that would be odd, if I didn't know you so well....
I've answered a ton of times. You act like we've never had a comment exchange on this forum before. I've even made forum posts on the subject actually.
Jill Stein, Rocky Anderson, Gary Johnson are some examples of alternatives to Romney and Obama. They've been running this entire time but blind bias citizens, like yourself, and tv networks run by the corporations funding their candidates of choice refuse to cover these people on television.
Tell me more how Obama has been forced to do all the tings you disagree with. Like the Patriot Act, indefinite detention laws, drone strikes in foreign countries, giving money to Wall Street, etc...
Do you think Obama will lay back and sign for the anti-gay legislation in the NDAA of 2013 like he did with indefinite detention laws in 2012?
Which is it Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson or Gary Johnson? you can't vote for all three unless the GOP is right and there is voter fraud.
You don't sound like someone that votes their heart you just sound like "any body but Obama" I don't think you know a damn thing about any of these candidates, and I'm sure the TV stations will run their ads same as any other, people voted for Nader too and we got Bush, people listen to you and we get Romney and that would ACTUALLY be bad, here in the real world where wars are started and such, look all those guys were out there people didn't pick them it's not "the media" fault, that's what democracy looks like...I saw these guys, they sound opportunistic to me and Jill seems to have a personal problem with Romney she runs for whatever office he's running for, but she doesn't look like she's up to the job to me sorry.
People like you screwed the public out of Nader, and every other decent candidate that runs.
Whoever is elected out of the duopoly is going to war with Iran soon. You idiotic two party system is a freakin joke.
They arent doing too well because the god damn idiots of the USA are too blind/scared to back them.
I can see you're becoming more angry not surprising seeing how your guy is self-destructing and all....
My guy is anyone who wouldn't sell out. There are 100's running for all different seats.
But if they dont sell out and get some TV spots, than no one will trust them. Ironic. I guess your theory is "If you cant beat em, join em".
Man you really hate democracy don't you hc? well too bad because...
This Is What Democracy Looks Like!!!
This is not what democracy looks like. This is what a mass brainwashing looks like. Its a Faux Democracy and you damn well know it.
you're a con and we all know it hc....
hmmmm I believe you have presented a weak case, I believe that either Obama or Romney will win, given that FACT makes me want the winner to be Obama NOT Romney, so it seems you support ineffective action that would lead to Romney winniong just as Nader led to Bush winning, I believe you are a part of the problem, not the solution based on what you have said here.
Ineffective action is supporting the current system in which you're protesting.
you would allow Romney to take the White House and set us back another generation....
You support indefinite detention laws, bombs in 5 countries, laws that imprison more non-violent citizens than any other country in the world, unlimited resources for Wall Street, presidents that allow crackdowns on peaceful protesters, the largest spy network on american citizens in American history... etc...
I will not vote for anyone that supports this shit because doing so is fucking stupid. End of conversation.
I vote against these types of people to keep them all out of office.
it's not my fault you side with your tv propaganda over someone who actually represents your views.
takes more than being pissed off to run a country....
I don't think Jill is up to the job, from what I saw.
Yeah actually joining the people in protest instead of doing nothing like Obama just isn't enough for you eh?
While Jill Stein was protesting fraudulent foreclosures, Obama was giving more money to Wall Street and letting Goldman Sachs off the hook for fraud.
You don't even know who you support I ask you for a name you send me three do you even know anything about these people you promote?
I support Jill Stein. I was just listing 3 names of people who do not support the shit that Romney and Obama work for.
Like indefinite detention laws, bombs in 5 countries, laws that imprison more non-violent citizens than any other country in the world, unlimited resources for Wall Street, presidents that allow crackdowns on peaceful protesters, the largest spy network on american citizens in American history... etc...
Do you know who writes the budget? The President signs the budget that is drafted in the House and finalized in the Senate. Clinton can take all of the credit he wants, but the separation of powers ensures that no one person can control the budget, as it should be.
exactly....Clinton got only two of his budgets passed, Fy93-94, both which had actual deficits of 281Billion....larger than all but one of the deficits under Reagan.....
all the Budgets from Fy95-Fy07 were written and passed by Republicans in the House and Senate.....
misinformed
It was Clintonss budgets congress passed. His administration wrote and proposed them, presented them to congress, and horse-traded some pretty f-cked up things in order to get them passed.
it was NOT Clinton's budgets that were passed, except in 93-94, and those had deficits of 281 billion each....higher per year than all but one of Reagan's deficits.....
It was a blood bath in 93 to get the plan through, if we had not let the GOP f**k it up in 2001 might have been worth it, can you imagine if we had zero public debt right now, how different it would be to deal with all this crap, but yeah like you say high price paid for one "welfare reform" one of cruelest things ever done.
He's referring to the fact repubs had super majority in house ad sen. And could over ride Clinton veto so they ran things not bill
Then he was referring to something other than a "fact" as the repubs never had enough to over ride a veto by themselves. Also Bill kick their asses all through the impeachment with about 70% approval most the time, so it sounds to me like you're trying to create some "facts" of your own.
Denial. Is not just a river in Egypt is it? You see things the way you want not the way they were.
of course you don't have to believe me about Bill kicking ass just look at the conventions did you see Bush? how about Clinton? with Romney in trouble is he pulling out Bush to barnstorm with him? why not? Bill is sure getting busy for Obama....
your entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts, when face with truth the con runs away....they never overrode a single veto and he gave'em plenty...you're the one trapped in a reality of your own making...
I never said they did over ride his veto I sai try had he votes he knew they would and jumped on their bandwagon. You talk about facts try actually reading what I wrote before you comment
The Rs never even had 60 in the Senate there was NO Super Majority
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/103rd_United_States_Congress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/104th_Congress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/105th_congress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Congress
you wrote that they could have over-ridden him and they did not have the votes to do it plain and simple....
You don't fix it. Ride this train of cheap money until the wheels fall off.
When the gov is borrowing 43cents of every dollar it spends, its game over. The cuts that would be needed to turn it around would lead to massive rioting and shrink the economy. No politician is going to do that.
Instead I think we are just going to experience a slow decline in quality of life. At this point I dont see a big moment where all hell breaks loose. I think its just going to be a downward fall from grace that most wont notice as long as they have enough gadgets to play with.
Quality of water and air is going down? Who cares, I need another Ipad!
My food is made of pure crap? Who cares, Dancing with the Chef :) is on!
Im working harder and longer than ever before? Oh well, at least I could still afford some new shoes.
My kids are as dumb as a box of rocks? Hopefully DC fixes that.
And on and on we go....A nation that is truly 2 Dumb 2 Fail
Bernanke recently said that this nation is on the road to economic ruin very soon. We can't keep spending and borrowing like this. But the president and congress just don't seem to care.
it wasn't this bad back then but Clinton and the D's fixed it once we could fix it again easy, if the GOP weren't in the way
I thought the republicans controlled at least one of the chambers at that time. I could be wrong.
The balanced budget on the 90's came from the Gingrich House of Representatives. The House passed many bills that Clinton opposed, but addressed the economy in a fair manner. Clinton took the credit while trying to raid the SSI fund and cut benefits (and pay) to the military and veterans. He owes his fiscal legacy to the Reps, but will never admit it.
No, it didn't. It came from the President. The president is required to present his budget to congress. They take i from there. And Gingrich allowed it to be passed in the House while kicking and screaming. Gingrich's main proposal was the Contract on America, and it, thankfully, failed miserably.
But both Clinton and Gingrich can legitimately share the glory of having repealed the Glass/Steagal, paving the way for the economic collapse we are experiencing today.
Not in 1993 the Democrats did it all by themselves without a single Republican vote proving that we don't need them.
Get rid of the GOP!!
So you are espousing one party rule? Interesting.
not at all we got to get rid of one, before we bust the other in half, one party can't really happen any more than three
You realize Clinton and D, along with the R (its always both of them in the big screw overs of the term) are the ones that repealed Glass Steagall, which allowed the banks to use our mortgages as investment devices, right? I mean without that being overturned (it was enacted after the Great Depression) we wouldnt have had the housing crash.
I also realize that Clinton balanced the budget and we would have no debt, if Bush hadn’t screwed it up, so you take the bad with the good, of course this downturn would not be so bad if the government had no debt.
That piece of legislation is what caused the housing collapse. I guess that is a small problem.
So would you be willing to trade a balanced budget right now and throw a pile of shit on the next generation.
You are about as close to a politician as this board has.
so you blame the housing collapse on the 1993 bill?
You must know a lot about it, pray tell.
I would return the top rate to 90% on high incomes and inheritances till every dollar was paid.
I would apply social security tax on every dollar first to last all forms of income, so it could pay its bills forever.
First- it was 1999. Old guy goes out, new guy comes in, cheap money everywhere, derivatives up the yahoo, and then the collapse. All within 7 years. Pretty impressive piece of legislation to pass on the way out the door.
You know Clinton was a Bush guy in Arkansas, right? With the Iran contra shit? He doesnt deny that they were friends. You do remember that Bush Sr was head of the CIA right?
Politics is show business for ugly people. Its all a joke. Just like anyone who thinks Obama is going to lose, or that Romney wasnt going to end up with the nomination.
We've been going back and forth for a while here. Im not disagreeing with most of what you are saying. As matter fact, as a registered Dem (still am actually, just dont care) I was pretty lock/stock and barrell with the party for a while (Im only 32). Worked on a mayors campaign in Rochester NY, and then on Obama's in 08. Well, since none of the corruption stuff has changed (wars, fast/furious, gitmo, NDAA, etc), Im not supporting them anymore. I will simply not be a part of that level of corruption.
Trust me, I realize that one of these two disasters wins every election. And has for over a 100 yrs. Its not a pleasant situation. And its staggeringly stupid that nothing else has ever formed.
I just think of that Ghandi quote- Be the change you wish to see in the world". I wish we had parties that actually passed legislation that they promised during campaigns. Neither does. And Im not helping them with the status quo anymore. No more.
You do know Obama didn't oversee the "fast and futiuos" the way he did the Bin Laden carture/kill if you want to blame him for something seems that would be better. A gop open gitmo so no difference there, have to decice based on something else, as for me.
And I wish the unicorns hadn't died, but living in the real world i'm going to work to get rid of Republicans.
I guess I could just go fishin and figure what the heck since Bush and Nader beat Gore there really isn't any point anymore.
Ok so we do agree that in 1993 the dems with no GOP vote, passed budget plan that led to a balamced budget for 15 months by the end of the Clinton Presidency?
Right?
1993 bedget was for 1994. There was no long term structural issues.
The rise of teh interent, a real bubble, not a fake one like housing or the current stock nonsense, is what gave you the boost.
That and raiding the SS fund.
What occupation do you go to again?
BTW nobody who worked for the D's could be this uninformed of the facts, you're a plant no doubt
ok so this comment proves you don't know shit, have you ever thought about learning something before you start telling other people what to do, do even know about the heroes of 93?
[Removed]
Good job Brownie............:)
No child will be left behind.....................:)
Look! Over there! Weapons of mass destruction!
I wish they didn't call them the Bush tax cuts...........:(
those who forget the past, will repeat it or something like that, this GOP crowd want the dems to do all the hard work of fixing things after they break it, and people don't even get commitments from them that they won't just break it again, I mean we fixed this budget problem once and many great Democrate Heros gave lost their seats because of it, if you do good people will make you pay for it, so on here we have a bunch of "purest" who want to kick the only guys around willing to even try and do what's right.
The other "side" won't accept what went wrong in the first place.
Neither side talks about the damage "corporate citizenship" has done and continues to do.
No one from the wrong wing, even mentions how much tighter it's grip became during those Bush years, and it makes me wonder if many of our " negative posters" were out of grade school when those things happened.
What you say is true, and even on a more basic question, Republicans won't deign that if given a chance they would cut taxes again even more, so how do we stop the madness?
Of course it seems simple to me; get rid of the Republicans, and maybe one day it will seem simple to everyone, of course that's not the end, that's the beginning.
One of them has already started a post to deny these things, that's why I placed placed a few quotes.
The damage was done by more than just the tax cuts.
Sure that war that couldn't cost more than a billion or so didn't help any, but the fact remains that all the smart money people were saying we were on track to pay the whole thing off, differences about how fast, then we pasted the tax cuts and no body has said that since, if we can't fix the big obvious stuff how do ever get to the smaller details?
And the even bigger point is what do these guys that said “Washington is taking in too much money!” where are they, why are they not being called to task, because some madman from the desert took down a building and no body has to answer for what they have said or done?
How convenient for them.
There are places in the free World that Bush/Cheney/Rummy are afraid to visit. Not because of protests, but because they would be subject to arrest.
Yet no one here will call them to task.
That's (R)epelican't honesty for you.
It seems very popular to attack the Ds on the most arcane matters while ignoring completely the totally criminal acts of the GOP.
But then there are some of us.
I guess some are here to support the cause, some to weaken it, no surprise.
All 8 years of Bush and the 12 years of Reagan/Bush have fallen far down the (R)epelican't memory hole.
240 some indictments and convictions within the Reagan cabinet?
Completely forgotten.
They only recall the manta of " I am not a crook".
hey that's on my list of:
"Things that can never sound good."
That's only because you're not a (R)epelican't...........:)
They repeat it to themselves every day, even though they are.
Look, its a pro Duopoly and War circle jerk :)
Glad my Occupy isnt filled with clones like you two.
see just when I thought you might be real, good fake story you gave over on the other thread, but hey I think I got it:
hchc = hateful conservative hates country
Did I guess right?
HCHC= Obama campaigner that wanted change and didnt get it. OccupyTampa member that has probably done more positive stuff in his short life than factsrfun will do in a lifetime.
Factsrfun= probably doesnt do anything political except vote D every four years like a good sheep. Probabaly doesnt help his/her local occupy. Just another establishment mouthpiece.
Both want change. One is just too damn lazy to do anything about it.
folks can decide for themselve reading my stuff and reading yours, all you ever post about is not voting for the D, I wonder now who does that help, oh yeah the GOP, do they pay you for this?
How do you know it isn't?
It's not like you came here in support anyway.
Quite the opposite. Do you even know the origin of the quote?
you know he's a troll right?
No offense shooz, and I preface this by saying I agree with a lot of what you say, but that is one of the most hopeless tactics I have heard yet.
None taken.
You've just reenforced my belief in how deep that memory hole really is.
Thanks................:)
No I don't. And I dont see the point in googling it either.
And I know ours isnt because....um.....Im there?
Something you probably dont know too much about. See, the media always wants to shove any movement into a corner. Paint a picture that stays within the duopoly, while keeping the people divided.
Pro Obama, down with Republicans, is the type of stuff you find on the internet and on TV, to an extent. But go and its quite different. Sure, you get a lot of confused people who simply vote for who their parents did, or who the TV says to, but the majority realize the entire thing is busted, and any attempt at working within these two parties is naive at best, really ignorant at worse.
Anti (R)epelican't I'll give you. the rest is pure assumption.
I've explained over and over, why I am anti (R)epelican't.
Here's a new one.
With the (R)epelican'ts out of power in the States and the Nation, a political vacuum will allow a new party to form.
This needs to done quickly, before the Kochs regain full power over the libe(R)tarians, if we expect to have a chance.
The (R)epelican'ts have got to go!!!
I know there are a lot of stories here, but these are all before 9/11 so people can see what it was like before Bush got his big break.
not a peep, no trolls, no supports? hmmm, maybe the budget doesn't matter.
"opps..I did it again.."