Forum Post: Homeless say threat of violence a constant on the streets of Las Vegas
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 21, 2012, 6:51 p.m. EST by GirlFriday
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This is not the America I want to live in. So sad, especially knowing what the economy is like in Nevada. It won't be looking up anytime soon.
A very sad statement about a country that most think has some kind of greatness to it.
I agree.
This is tragic.
One approximation of the annual number of homeless in America is from a study by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, which estimates between 2.3 and 3.5 million people experience homelessness.
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/526/homeless-facts.html
National Homeless Estimates: 700,000 per night; 2 million/year. (National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, 1999).
My stats are from the same place but from 1999.
It is estimated a 5% increase this next year.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/18/us-homelessness-idUSTRE80H19I20120118
We've had this problem right along - even when the economy was supposedly booming. There has always been a huge underclass in America, the numbers of which have been minimized in the press. They serve as a threat from the ruling class to the working class and the middle class. That is why they have always been there.
There are approximately 600,000 homeless people in the US. That's less than 0.2% of the population. A far better figure than most countries.
Statistics on homelessness are really scanty.
No dear. There is enough of it. A simple google search will give you enough links to pretty credible sites
I just looked. It's pretty scanty. I'm not saying your number is wrong. I'm just saying it's not easy to quantify and I don't think anyone tries all that hard to do so.
Could you not call me dear? It's condescending.
It may not be exact down to the last 3 digits but it gives a pretty good idea.
Try again. Between 700,000 and 2 million. The reason that those numbers are off , or what beautifulworld, says are scanty is because they are what is called point in time counts.
The number of homeless is rising.
700,000 to 2 million... LOL.. that's an estimate... haha.. nice. Ever attended a class in probability?
Do you understand what "point in time" counts are? Of course you don't.
Dear lady, the number of homeless people cannot be 600k one day, 700k the next week and 2 million the next. The homeless people number somewhere around 670k at the moment and that won't change drastically say in the next 5 years, may be 10. Period.
National Homeless Estimates: 700,000 per night; 2 million/year. (National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, 1999). My stats are from the same place but from 1999. It is estimated a 5% increase this next year. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/18/us-homelessness- idUSTRE80H19I20120118
[-] 1 points by infonomics (280) 10 hours ago One approximation of the annual number of homeless in America is from a study by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, which estimates between 2.3 and 3.5 million people experience homelessness. http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/526/homeless-facts.html
The reuters article link that you provided itself puts the homeless figure at around 636,017.
The 1.5 million figure is the number of people experiencing homelessness over a period of one year. It is very possible that the family that is homeless in the month of jan may have found a home by feb or decemeber. Therefore the number of homeless people at any given point of time is still between 600k and 700k.
Which they came up with through a collection of information through others that is based on a point in time. They are now, going out, in different counties to collect that information again. :/
shows you how dumb the poor are, i got robbed last night at my house too, why cant they take from the rich, just cause i live among them, they want to steal from eachother, so dumb.
Directing all that homeless violence, into the homes of the most corrupt and despicable bankers and politicians, would not harm the many.
That's a great idea... ...if you want to live in 2006 Iraq. Given the degree to which the country is polarized on so many issues, you'd wind up with 50-50 neighbor-on-neighbor violence involving two evenly matched sides. You wouldn't get Bull Run or Gettysburg, you'd get Watts. In every city and every community in this country. In a situation like that there is no real winner; the losers get wiped out but the winners inherit a bloody mess that nobody in their right mind would want to have to put back together. Let's not do anything too hasty, shall we? Even when you have defined geographical entities battling each other with traditional armies, war (especially civil war) is quite an ugly and destructive business. Now strip away the defined nature of two armies going at it and just have every man for himself running around with guns and knives and all kinds of what-have-you. There's precedent for that... Iraq, Sudan, and Somalia, just to name a few.
From what I have gathered, life on the streets is little different than the scenarios you have depicted. The reason we still discuss these issues is because we are not directly subjected to such a brutish and violent existence. As yet.
Understanding desperation is difficult for those of us with options, yet incredibly simple for those without, so any organized and noble "charge" is lacking the basic organizing element that has driven so many hordes to form armies; the food supply. Provide food to the hungry and you will never be without allies. Devoted and loyal ones. Until then, it will be randomly violent at the bottom, and any transgressions will have no source of blame aside from desperation. Thank you.
I think you just made my point for me; we shouldn't be sitting back and letting conditions get to the point where that kind of random violence is part of the lives of any appreciably large subset of the population. Our job should be to do our best to make sure that everyone is provided for and the limbo at the bottom you're describing is pretty much eliminated, not to sit back and wait to see what happens and/or try to direct the violence of the desperate in the hopes that you'll be able to keep it from taking you out after you're done aiming it at your enemy.
Glad to know we agree. Truly.
There is little an individual can do to alleviate these problems, they are rooted in so many aspects of our society. I hate to say it but have you considered the vile possibility, that those with the most education, money and power have actually calculated out this scenario, and approved it for implementation. It seems hard for me to think otherwise because these are such rudimentary sociological problems.
Wrong answer!!!
The many would be harmed?
Cut the violence. Get these people off the street.
Where do you suggest these people go? Vegas leads the nation in foreclosures and, oddly, opulence.
let them work together forming a unity sharing land, resourses, surviving, without government interference. But there is no land, instead our current economic system says: lets leave thousands of open land vacant and undeveloped while the rich hold onto it waiting for it to appreciate and the poor have nowhere to go.
The poor clearly have places to go. It is currently illegal for them to do so. May I refer to you the laws applied to the "Fourth Estate" and the results of the laws applied to them by Louis XVI.
I apologize for links. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate
Put them in houses. I'm saying, no, you don't take homeless violence and use it for your own ends.
Those are not my own ends. Homeless violence against homeless is abhorrent when opulence and disregard live in a mansion down the street. Soon, justice may very well, wear the uniform of the homeless and disenfranchised. It will not have been my doing either.
So you are actually advocating violence against "the rich"?
I advocate nothing of the sort. Others may.
Oh in places like California and Florida it isn't just homeless on homeless violence.
Then advocate change to prevent it from occurring. Get these people off the street.
It won't be long until those with nothing to lose, realize that the sentence is the same, for robbing and killing an impoverished homeless peer, as it is for robbing and killing a wealthy and opulent estate holder. The rewards are far different though, for the same risk. Considering an end to homelessness during the largest foreclosure crisis ever, seems comical. Please take no offense.
I like your posts Fawkes.
You are right. A good many people do not feel sympathy. In fact, msm, has been known to rarely talk about homelessness without locating someone that reinforces a stereotype. They may showcase a shelter that needs something or portray the situation in a manner that indicates that everything is taken care of.
I also agree that any violence will be because those in power have flat out refused to acknowledge, assess, or provide a working plan. Right now, you have austerity measures for those that need services but NOT for those pet projects or the elite. No, it is not ridiculous to put people in houses while there is a foreclosure crisis. Why? Because those very same banks have offered solutions such as wanting to buy those houses and then rent them out. That is ridiculous. If states can afford to throw money at failing charter schools or send tax dollars to FBOs or (nationally) provide aid to other countries, allow for outsourcing, then they can put these people in houses and get them off the streets.
The French Revolution did NOT produce a government by or for the people. There is some amount of romanticizing with the guillotine. They won a dictator and maintained the status quo through other measures.
Thank you more than you know.
The media will portray the story they are trying to write, regardless of what props they need to use in order to do so. I believe that practice has created a chasm, between real and reported truths. The fault there lay within the lack of ethical procedure in news reporting.
By ignoring the inhumanity administered to their own neighbors, those in power have begged, pleaded and prayed for the violence they are inevitably to endure. No one else is to blame. They had the education, the knowledge and the resources to study solutions, yet greed and hubris overpowered them into apathy and disregard. Any violence levied against them is the creation of their own hand, and the brunt of it should rightfully fall upon them.
Homelessness can be rectified with relative ease, when viewed from your perspective, provided intent to do so is present. Also the easing of homelessness is the easing of violence. They seem to go hand in hand these days, though when hunger enters into the scene, there will be an entirely different monster to contend with. Either we are experiencing one hell of a diabolical scheme or we are witnessing the capitulation of greed and hubris.
As for the French Revolution... Any individual willing to assume power in such a vacuum is a megalomaniac and will only be able to do so with the power of the military, as Napoleon did. Initially, Napoleon did so with the blessings of the previously oppressed masses. He gave power to the common man and rose to what he thought was godliness as a result. Personally, I would rather have been a officer in Napoleons' army, than a peasant under a despotic Louis, though the similarities are indisputable.
If you break media down into who owns what paper or who sits on the board at a media conglomerate AND who also sits on the board of a medical facility or insurance company then the news will usually be slanted.If you have a right wing owner of a paper, you can bet the news will be slanted to meet their agenda. Currently, every place is going out for the yearly count on homelessness. So, there are many articles up.
Homelessness is not so much as easy to fix as it is to recognize that there are different populations with different needs. Deinstitutionalization created a plethora of problems and there seems to be this very strange and costly cycle. Many of these people are unwilling or unable to take medication and they may be arrested and taken to a psych ward where they are medically stabilized and then released. For years this was the primary population. These needs are different. We do not have and have not had adequate mental health services in this country. People who work in mental health care have been screaming this for years. The problem is those who wish to profit and those who make policy.
It boils down to intent. It really boils down to are those who make public policy ready to listen. They have to make a choice. If they choose to ignore this then there will probably be extreme negative consequences. No there isn't anyone else to blame.
With the French Revolution, it was the elite that went to Napoleon. Not the oppressed masses. As for being an officer in Napoleon's army, isn't it odd that we look back in history as if we would have had the ability or opportunity to choose?
Private media has been the controlling mechanism of many people for a long time. Today it is facing its demise at the hand of the internet and those private interests are resisting tooth and nail, going so far as to pull the strings on the politicians they own, to write laws protecting them from the onslaught. These desperate measures. are quantifiable proof, of the fear that those private intrerests have, of such a powerful and free information source. It will not be long before private media is nullified by the open and unbridled truths available online.
Homelessness is an issuee many can relate to, since there are more and more people without housing, even shelter. At one time it would have been relevant to say that many were mentally challenged and in need of medication, but not any longer. There are entire families of sane, employed, working people without anywhere to stay. Long gone are the days when assessing the homeless was a mental health issue. Homelessness is growing and will create a fourth estate, if one does not already exist.
Intent, is exactly what needs to be scrutinized when assessing politicians, corporations and individuals, and the internet is the tool to research and determine the intentions and motivations of the questionable. No longer will the private media be able to dictate to the populace the benevolent or malevelant nature of a candidate, elected official or noteworthy individuals. Once malice has been identified, as the underlying intention of the corrupt, then exposure is swift, and can possibly implement any available beneficial change.
The French Revolution was such a divisive force in France that even Napoleon was considered a moderate when in 1799. The residue of the elite surely were influential in his appointment, but it was, at the time, the conjoining of moderates and the exclusion of extremists that actually was his power base. It is odd that we juxtapose ourselves into history as if we could have made a difference, when in reality, Cannon Fodder was the majority of the population at the time. Either way, it would have sucked to starve while despots feasted.
Thanks
Don't instigate the shit.
Are you insinuating that I say untruths? or are those truths unpleasant?
I'm telling you point blank, don't instigate the shit.
This isn't a game.
Hang on a second, you tell Fawkes not to instigate when you continuously post about the injustices endured all over the country. How is that not instigation? Do you stop to think that your words could be pushing people out there to the tipping point?
"the balance can sometimes fail. Old emotions can tip the scale"
So lets hear about the effort to change more and the horrific shit less. We all know there's a lot of pain on the Earth.
The NGA isn't a game either. You and Zen too busy to talk about THAT? Apparently.
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions. They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility. They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance. They have sold our privacy as a commodity. They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit. They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit. They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit. They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media. They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt. They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.* To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
None of the articles that I have posted have been geared towards violence. They have all been related to the topics listed above or to tracking the money (as in education). Further, there have been threads where it is a collection of information.
I must say, your threatening tone is unbecoming. Please refrain from accusing me of anything, aside from stating the obvious. We all want the same changes, but some of us don't feel obliged to protect our oppressors, and are prepared to accept the realities that may unfold upon them, regardless of how unsightly those realities may begin to appear. Thank you.
Whatever.
Take a real damn good look around you. For over four years people have been agitating for a civil war. Many people are already on edge because they don't have much more to lose. The food riots will come here.
This isn't about protecting oppressors. There is a difference between instigating the shit and not instigating the shit. Instigating the shit will allow for a whole sale slaughter. You will NOT win and a lot of people will die.
I got news for you, the French Revolution was a major propaganda party and a war between two houses where people were murdered with no evidence. Not some romanticized bullshit. To top it off, they won a real SOB for all the efforts.
Now, if there has to be bloodshed then let it start with them. Zen says it best, if bleed we must then bleed we shall. In the meantime, let's at least put some damn effort into getting American citizens off the street and changing what we can to try to avoid it at all costs.
Great comment! Anyone who even tacitly advocates violence in this struggle must face the fact that they are really advocating something akin to armageddon. I simply cannot imagine how anyone cannot realize that the huge populations in the world today, the unbelievable amount and sophistication of weaponry, and the increasingly polarized beliefs would add up to a war that would end civilization. It would be perhaps the end of humanity. And all for what? Because a few babies can't part with their toys?
I actually admire your postings. I pains me to hear you attack me so.
A good many people feel no sympathy, for the wrongs applied to those, who have created so much wrong for so many. Few defend them. If wholesale slaughter is an actual possibility, it is only such because of the inability of those in power, to accurately assess the damage done to the people, through usury, corruption and greed.
While the French Revolution was a bloodbath, it produced a democratic state, albeit at great cost. Can one measure the cost, of the lack of a French Revolution. It is despotic rule.
How much bloodshed and sacrifice is to be expected of the peaceful before they retaliate with desperate and violent means?
Again, homelessness as a problem in a country riddled with vacant houses seems comical. No offense.
I appreciate your discourse and intend no offense. Thank you.
It's sad, as long as you have OWS loons on the street then there will be violence. Fortunately though this fad is winding down
Winding down? Or did mass evictions take place where mass arrests also took place along with tear gas, tasers, and pepper spray being used on those who protest? Pretty sure oppression played a huge factor in the decreasing size of the Occupy movement. Considering if they even try to retake a park to protest in they will be arrested, beaten, or tear gassed, I can understand why people don't want to risk that.
You know the blacks were breaking the laws during the civil rights movements. Not all laws are right. In fact throughout american history a fuck ton of laws have been over turned. Just because something is a law, like being in a park after 11pm, doesn't mean excessive force needs to be used. In fact how else can you protest a law or use the first amendment if this kind of action is taken by the police who "just follow orders" ?
When they were beating the blacks and arresting them in the civil rights movement, the officers were "just following orders"
If they enforced banking regulations like they enforce park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
GirlFriday would know, she is a * on the streets of Vegas.
Is that the best you can come up with, cupcake? You are not quite as good with the slams as you used to be.
Oh,,, I was GOOD before. I will take note of that compliment. Cupcake? Sounds like you got new batteries over the weekend with a couple of cans of Colt45
I have never drank a can of Colt45 in my life. You're still a big ol' douchebag.
I didnt say DRANK. The Colt45 in your douchebag.
You are so worthless. Go fix the word "insurance" in the title of one of your dumb ass threads.
I believe you because you would rather chug down the Obummer kool-aid
Oh MY!!!!! Very good. I wish I had thought of that. I loved it.
thanks and have a good one
Save your breath. You are going to need it to blow up your date.
Cut the violence. Get these OWS people off the street.
Again? Show the worthless POS that you always have been with your new alt. You gooooo boooy.